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04-23-2017, 10:57 AM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by TV95 Quote
I just repaired my Pentax succesfully today. To keep track of the screws I made a sheet:

I hope this will help you. The line with the circle is for the screw below the bottom plate
What did you do to repair it?

04-23-2017, 11:01 AM   #527
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
Reh321 - if it fails again, that's it. I'll use it exclusively as a manual camera. I noticed last time it failed I could use any lens in manual mode and it worked fine. I shoot most of the time in manual. It will be interesting how the K70 fares over time.
I shoot mostly using my 18-135 and 55-300 lenses.

However, if my K-30 develops this malady, I'll switch to manual only - between M42 and AdaptAll lenses, I have more than enough to do that.

I'm not convinced that anyone understands this problem well enough to be certain that a repaired camera will stay repaired.
04-24-2017, 01:56 AM   #528
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QuoteOriginally posted by ekip Quote
What did you do to repair it?
I took a white solenoid from a Pentax *ist DL and used it to replace the green one in my k30. The replacement was not really difficult (altough the wires were quite short for soldering), I only did not take care of my AF switch, so I had to open my camera for a second time to put it in the right position. So for the people who plan to do the same operation I would suggest to put the switch in an extreme position (MF or AF.S) and when putting back the front cover to ensure the switch is in the original position.
05-05-2017, 03:09 AM - 1 Like   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not convinced that anyone understands this problem well enough to be certain that a repaired camera will stay repaired.
I agree. My k-30 has been sitting unused since it became obvious it has the failure discussed here.
I am hesitant to attempt the repair, and I am not convinced that the solenoid is the problem.

I have a *ist DL which apparently is having the same problem, and apparently has had that problem since the day I bought it. Perhaps not, but I have several hundred images from that body that are VERY underexposed, and a bunch that seem to be fine. Intermittent aperture problem?

I am using my K-x now, and it seems to keep clunking along happily.

If I replaced the solenoid, in the 30, I am certain that I would always be apprehensive about that critical shot, ruined by a recurrence, because the actual root cause was NOT known and solved.

I did troubleshooting for H-P, and the comments in this topic do not measure up to the standards of troubleshooting needed.

I appreciate the videos, pictures and comments attempting to figure out what is really going on, but again, I have not seen any compelling demonstration of correct troubleshooting applied to the problem.

05-07-2017, 11:26 PM   #530
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Naysayers

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I shoot mostly using my 18-135 and 55-300 lenses.

However, if my K-30 develops this malady, I'll switch to manual only - between M42 and AdaptAll lenses, I have more than enough to do that.
But you have enough time to reproduce endless postings repeating and repeating yourself saying "No, I don't believe"!

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not convinced that anyone understands this problem well enough to be certain that a repaired camera will stay repaired.
Nobody tries to convince you. If, then you, like others, have to "learn to walk". A small child denying the possibility to learn to walk might all his live
cry out in sheer disbelieve that walking cannot be possible, even if seeing all the others being able to walk or even run.

So after all: You cannot even talk about "being convinced", because to be convinced you have to do that bit more.

This once was put very well by the proverb: "Put up or shut up".
To put up actually means to verify, TO DO instead of "empty words".
To shut up means to admit: "I don't know" instead of "remaining in denial"


QuoteOriginally posted by 45 Mike Quote
I agree. My k-30 has been sitting unused since it became obvious it has the failure discussed here.
I am hesitant to attempt the repair, and I am not convinced that the solenoid is the problem.
Same goes for you! You have to try instead of giving in to such nonsense:

QuoteOriginally posted by 45 Mike Quote
If I replaced the solenoid, in the 30, I am certain that I would always be apprehensive about that critical shot, ruined by a recurrence, because the actual root cause was NOT known and solved.
"Because I could fall I better never walk".
Well then!

QuoteOriginally posted by 45 Mike Quote
I did troubleshooting for H-P, and the comments in this topic do not measure up to the standards of troubleshooting needed.
Intellectual approach worth nothing in this case:


QuoteOriginally posted by 45 Mike Quote
I appreciate the videos, pictures and comments attempting to figure out what is really going on, but again, I have not seen any compelling demonstration of correct troubleshooting applied to the problem.
People want to be insured against "all and everything". Being spoonfed all their life.

If you don't have the ability to repair your K30 with your own hands, get it repaired with this white solenoid and find out yourself.

Naysayers don't help.
In politics and development they are not only the most useless in help but often hinder real progress.
Because they have lost or never learned to see that progress means to work oneself instead of endlessly
"placing a stick in the wheel" for proving that a wheel will never turn.

---------- Post added 05-08-17 at 12:07 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by enyaw Quote
ok, we don't need to get personal here or overboard. We are all in this together. TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. Keep the ship on course please guys. This is an important issue.

thanks,
I fully agree with this.

You wrote: "Together we stand"
Yes. If one understands for what we stand up! And takes part instead of watching from a save distance and everytime and then throw a bit of earth towards those working for trying to get a little bit of attention as well.

To stand together means to try find a solution, to work towards progress.
To make an effort however small it is. Or to pose intelligent questions.

You wrote: "Together we fall": In the worst scenario sadly true.

In this case we might then never fuly really find out, but ....

this thread has helped others to make their K-models work again.
Here in Germany there are now quite a few who undertook this repair with the white solenoid themselves.
And managed. Of cource there is a risk. So what. I can learn something and and the worst that my abilities
are not up to such work. As much as some person might be surprised.
Time only can show how long the repair will last. And in some cases it might be because of a faulty soldered point
or a cold solder point. We learn and make progress by the right attitude towards out own mistakes.

For this I am absolutly certain about one thing:

No real effort is ever wasted!

But then there can be this effort which is just made "to avoid effort".
05-08-2017, 11:37 AM - 1 Like   #531
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No One is Saying "Nay" Here

QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
But you have enough time to reproduce endless postings repeating and repeating yourself saying "No, I don't believe"!



Nobody tries to convince you. If, then you, like others, have to "learn to walk". A small child denying the possibility to learn to walk might all his live
cry out in sheer disbelieve that walking cannot be possible, even if seeing all the others being able to walk or even run.

So after all: You cannot even talk about "being convinced", because to be convinced you have to do that bit more.

This once was put very well by the proverb: "Put up or shut up".
To put up actually means to verify, TO DO instead of "empty words".
To shut up means to admit: "I don't know" instead of "remaining in denial"




Same goes for you! You have to try instead of giving in to such nonsense:



"Because I could fall I better never walk".
Well then!



Intellectual approach worth nothing in this case:




People want to be insured against "all and everything". Being spoonfed all their life.

If you don't have the ability to repair your K30 with your own hands, get it repaired with this white solenoid and find out yourself.

Naysayers don't help.
In politics and development they are not only the most useless in help but often hinder real progress.
Because they have lost or never learned to see that progress means to work oneself instead of endlessly
"placing a stick in the wheel" for proving that a wheel will never turn.

---------- Post added 05-08-17 at 12:07 AM ----------



I fully agree with this.

You wrote: "Together we stand"
Yes. If one understands for what we stand up! And takes part instead of watching from a save distance and everytime and then throw a bit of earth towards those working for trying to get a little bit of attention as well.

To stand together means to try find a solution, to work towards progress.
To make an effort however small it is. Or to pose intelligent questions.

You wrote: "Together we fall": In the worst scenario sadly true.

In this case we might then never fuly really find out, but ....

this thread has helped others to make their K-models work again.
Here in Germany there are now quite a few who undertook this repair with the white solenoid themselves.
And managed. Of cource there is a risk. So what. I can learn something and and the worst that my abilities
are not up to such work. As much as some person might be surprised.
Time only can show how long the repair will last. And in some cases it might be because of a faulty soldered point
or a cold solder point. We learn and make progress by the right attitude towards out own mistakes.

For this I am absolutly certain about one thing:

No real effort is ever wasted!

But then there can be this effort which is just made "to avoid effort".
I don't understand the "heat" in this response. Neither 45Mike nor I is a "naysayer" as the term is normally used. Neither of us has denied that the problem is occurring. Neither of us has denied that it might happen to our very own cameras; mine {at 23 months and 1751 images} worked fine when I took it out today - but I had my manual lenses in my camera bag just in case. Neither of us has said that publicizing a fix {actually, this thread has talked about two different fixes} that some have found to be useful is bad. We have chosen other paths; others might consider those alternative paths, and that should be OK also.

Last edited by reh321; 05-08-2017 at 11:52 AM. Reason: "two fixes" wording
05-08-2017, 11:30 PM   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't understand the "heat" in this response. Neither 45Mike nor I is a "naysayer" as the term is normally used. Neither of us has denied that the problem is occurring.
Well, it would be kind of childish to deny that the problem is occurring.

It is about "bringing something useful instead of constantly repeating "I don't want to believe" when you haven't even been confronted with the issue.
All you have brought forward was of zero use or help, actually I have to correct my wording as "the term forward is normally used": You haven't brought anything forward at all, only backward.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Neither of us has denied that it might happen to our very own cameras; mine {at 23 months and 1751 images} worked fine when I took it out today - but I had my manual lenses in my camera bag just in case.
wrong, it actually happened to 45Mike's K30

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Neither of us has said that publicizing a fix {actually, this thread has talked about two different fixes} that some have found to be useful is bad. We have chosen other paths; others might consider those alternative paths, and that should be OK also.
You haven't chosen ANY path! To chose a path you have to walk it but not constantly speculate about it.
Speculation is guesswork, its fantasy or daydreaming. What you believe to result out of your fantasies or daydreams is nothing but a result stemming from fantasy. You could even write books about it. At the end: Hot air. Need for a match.

Actually this thread "has talked" about 5 different fixes:

1. Replacement of the complete circuit board
2. Replacement of the solenoid via new original (but made in China*)
3. Filing the horseshoe
4. Adding solder to shorten the "path this horseshoe has to travel"
5. Replacing the green (made in China*) solenoid with the superior built "made in Japan* Version"

First results have shown:

#1 + #2 are shortsighted, the same problem has occured again!

#3 + #4 have worked for some, but if I got this right what member Paolo wrote he and others had bad luck.
I have never tried out this method.

#5 seems to work (no recurrence yet)

This is relative evidence, no pseudo-intellectual-babble-guess-work!
Relative evidence because solution 5 has to proove if it will work in long term.
This is true fault finding and going a path. It involves the readyness for some risk.
But at least we know that many older Pentax K bodys using the white solenoid don't really show this problem.
IMHO worth to take this path, no recurrence yet on my side.


But in your honor I admit: You actually did prepare kind of a path as well:

You actually cary all those manual lenses with you just in case the worst scenario would happen!

This is called "insurance".

How many manual lenses did you cary all those days?

Those Tamron Adaptall lenses of yours are quite heavy, I owned a few of them.

Solid built quality, quite some weight to carry, particular if "they are many"!

Do you pay a sherpa or do you use a donkey?

If some don't want to risk, fine. But no need out of one's own fear to try to convince others that this solution is too risky. If you want to climb a mountain you have to learn how to do it and then finally do it and not endlessly theorize what could happen if....!

Thats what I am after.

Last edited by photogem; 05-08-2017 at 11:43 PM.
05-09-2017, 01:06 AM   #533
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
Actually this thread "has talked" about 5 different fixes:

1. Replacement of the complete circuit board
2. Replacement of the solenoid via new original (but made in China*)
3. Filing the horseshoe
4. Adding solder to shorten the "path this horseshoe has to travel"
5. Replacing the green (made in China*) solenoid with the superior built "made in Japan* Version"

First results have shown:

#1 + #2 are shortsighted, the same problem has occured again!

#3 + #4 have worked for some, but if I got this right what member Paolo wrote he and others had bad luck.
I have never tried out this method.

#5 seems to work (no recurrence yet)
Actually, I think that #1 should read "Replacement of the complete aperture block". This block is the electromechanical part responsible for moving the aperture lever.

I don't think that someone actually replaced the electronic circuit board responsible for delivering the pulse that is supposed to release the solenoid, while this circuitry might very well be playing a role in this problem.

#5 might work accidentally because the parameters of the replacement solenoid better match the range of specs supported by the pulse circuitry, which seem to have gone out of match with the failing cameras. If this will keep up has to be seen. My camera still hasn't shown the problem again after more than 2000 shots.

05-09-2017, 06:37 AM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
Well, it would be kind of childish to deny that the problem is occurring.

It is about "bringing something useful instead of constantly repeating "I don't want to believe" when you haven't even been confronted with the issue.
All you have brought forward was of zero use or help, actually I have to correct my wording as "the term forward is normally used": You haven't brought anything forward at all, only backward.

wrong, it actually happened to 45Mike's K30
Incorrect. My statement was not wrong

My statement is that neither of us has denied there is a problem, and that statement is clearly true.

QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
You haven't chosen ANY path! To chose a path you have to walk it but not constantly speculate about it.
Speculation is guesswork, its fantasy or daydreaming. What you believe to result out of your fantasies or daydreams is nothing but a result stemming from fantasy. You could even write books about it. At the end: Hot air. Need for a match.
Incorrect.

I have chosen a path, as you admit later in this post.
I am taking whatever steps I can to avoid this problem, and I have already decided to "live with it" if it does occur. I have done soldering in the past, but I don't want to take this task on; I would rather go back in time than do that, and I believe that others should at least think about this option.


QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
But in your honor I admit: You actually did prepare kind of a path as well:

You actually carry all those manual lenses with you just in case the worst scenario would happen!

This is called "insurance".

How many manual lenses did you carry all those days?

Those Tamron Adaptall lenses of yours are quite heavy, I owned a few of them.

Solid built quality, quite some weight to carry, particular if "they are many"!

Do you pay a sherpa or do you use a donkey?

If some don't want to risk, fine. But no need out of one's own fear to try to convince others that this solution is too risky. If you want to climb a mountain you have to learn how to do it and then finally do it and not endlessly theorize what could happen if....!

Thats what I am after.
A year ago my bag contained
* K-30
* Sigma 10-20mm
* Pentax-DA 18-135mm
* Pentax-DA 55-300mm

These combined weigh much more than what I've added
* Takumar 35mm f/2
* Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7
* AdaptAll 35-80mm f/2.8
* Pentax-FA 28-70 f/4

I have never been an athlete, and I am now 69 years old, but like the description in the U.S. Army song, I just "keep rolling along". Yes, I know the backup lenses give me less focal range than the primary lenses do, but I could live with that until I got home and made a complete change of bag contents.

Last edited by reh321; 05-09-2017 at 06:56 AM. Reason: added last sentence
05-09-2017, 08:17 AM - 2 Likes   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
this thread "has talked" about 5 different fixes:

1. Replacement of the complete circuit board
2. Replacement of the solenoid via new original (but made in China*)
3. Filing the horseshoe
4. Adding solder to shorten the "path this horseshoe has to travel"
5. Replacing the green (made in China*) solenoid with the superior built "made in Japan* Version"

First results have shown:

#1 + #2 are shortsighted, the same problem has occured again!

#3 + #4 have worked for some, but if I got this right what member Paolo wrote he and others had bad luck.
I have never tried out this method.

#5 seems to work (no recurrence yet).
Actually you left out one solution

6. Send K-30/50 to company in California which will "fix" it for $100. We need to list this as a separate option because we don't know what their proprietary solution consists of. Apparently they have had at least one re-occurrence and are "tuning" their solution, whatever that means

and two preventative measures

7. use AA batteries

8. use frequently - don't let it rest for extended periods of time {whatever that means}

I am a mathematician by education and an engineer by trade, so I have evolved to a combination of wanting to know "why" and wanting to see things actually work; thus I believe this discussion needs to remain aware of what we do not know:

A. We do not know what the actual occurrence rate is. The reported overall failure rate for Pentax is around 7%; since that number includes other issues with other cameras, presumably the failure rate with K-30/50 can be only so high. We don't know whether the actual failure rate is 100% or as low as 5% {and a disproportionate number of the failures end up here}.

B. We do not know whether the K-30/50 are especially at risk. Much of the K-01 innards are said to be the same as those of a K-30, and the K-500 closely related to the K-50, but we don't hear much about those two. I know that a number of regulars here at PF use the K-01, so not hearing about it is especially problematic. {Maybe someone needs to sacrifice one to see what is actually inside}

C. We do not know whether the triggering variable is shutter count, aperture changes, calendar time, or some other measure. Considerations (A) and (C) are extremely important, because this thread, which started off with your #3, is just a year old - declaring a method to fail is simple, but without knowing the triggering variable, we don't know when to cautiously say that a method is successful. Similarly, we don't know whether using manual lenses, working the aperture control less, would slow or speed potential development of this problem.

D. We do not know what the underlying cause is. Is the solenoid causing this problem, or is some other part of the system stressing the solenoid.

E. We do not know the difference between solenoids other than a piece of plastic. Perhaps some were made in Japan and some in China, but there is also the possibility that all are made on Taiwan and the change in plastic color is incidental to some other change that occurred at roughly the same time.
05-09-2017, 09:00 AM - 1 Like   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
C. We do not know whether the triggering variable is shutter count, aperture changes, calendar time, or some other measure. Considerations (A) and (C) are extremely important, because this thread, which started off with your #3, is just a year old - declaring a method to fail is simple, but without knowing the triggering variable, we don't know when to cautiously say that a method is successful. Similarly, we don't know whether using manual lenses, working the aperture control less, would slow or speed potential development of this problem.

D. We do not know what the underlying cause is. Is the solenoid causing this problem, or is some other part of the system stressing the solenoid.
I concur.
My K-30 is broken, it is in the basement on a shelf waiting for some determination of the cause, and a known repair path.

Until that time as I am confident that the root cause is positively identified, and a fix available to address that root cause, it will remain in disrepair.

I have other cameras that I can use. Yay Pentax lens interchangeability!

That is my position, and it is that way, because I am not willing to attempt myself, or pay for a repair based on speculation and voodoo.

I am happy that others are attempting to work out a solution, Keep at it. I just don't see a root cause that has been positively identified.
05-10-2017, 03:28 PM - 2 Likes   #537
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I've been casually monitoring this thread for a while now that my K-50 decided to join the underexposure club 18 months after my warranty expired. I'm a DIY guy but the solutions here looked a little speculative for my taste. I was tempted to try the guys in CA, but since this is looking more and more like a big problem I first reached out to Ricoh USA to see if there was a recall in the works or repair help available or anything. They wanted me to send the camera into Precision Camera for evaluation before they would even talk to me about it, and despite low expectations I gave it a try. Once I had a case number at Precision I got back in touch with Ricoh and asked what they had to offer. It took a couple weeks, but I got a phone call today from Ricoh saying they are going to treat it as a warranty issue and repair it for me. I don't know if this a change from how is been handled in the past, but I figured I'd let you folks know the door is open.
05-10-2017, 06:57 PM   #538
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QuoteOriginally posted by Will in Seattle Quote
I've been casually monitoring this thread for a while now that my K-50 decided to join the underexposure club 18 months after my warranty expired. I'm a DIY guy but the solutions here looked a little speculative for my taste. I was tempted to try the guys in CA, but since this is looking more and more like a big problem I first reached out to Ricoh USA to see if there was a recall in the works or repair help available or anything. They wanted me to send the camera into Precision Camera for evaluation before they would even talk to me about it, and despite low expectations I gave it a try. Once I had a case number at Precision I got back in touch with Ricoh and asked what they had to offer. It took a couple weeks, but I got a phone call today from Ricoh saying they are going to treat it as a warranty issue and repair it for me. I don't know if this a change from how is been handled in the past, but I figured I'd let you folks know the door is open.
What means did you use to contact Ricoh? I have tried email with no response. Sounds like it may have some promise. My hope is that they do a proper repair. I really don't want to go through this again in another 6 months or year.
05-10-2017, 08:12 PM   #539
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffgusa Quote
What means did you use to contact Ricoh? I have tried email with no response. Sounds like it may have some promise. My hope is that they do a proper repair. I really don't want to go through this again in another 6 months or year.
By email. They're private - I haven't seen a phone number listed, and the email is monitored by a lower-level employee who then talked to the decision-makers and got back to me.

I don't know anything about camera repair to know if they'll do a better job than anyone else, though I figure if they agree to fix it I can count on them to stand behind it.
05-11-2017, 01:55 AM - 1 Like   #540
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Lise can be picked as well

QuoteOriginally posted by sys3175 Quote
Actually, I think that #1 should read "Replacement of the complete aperture block". This block is the electromechanical part responsible for moving the aperture lever.

Wikipedia:

A printed circuit board (PCB) mechanically supports and electrically connects electronic components using conductive tracks, pads and other features etched from copper sheets laminated onto a non-conductive substrate. Components (e.g. capacitors, resistors or active devices) are generally soldered on the PCB. Advanced PCBs may contain components embedded in the substrate.


So yes, I took it for granted that everybody knows a circuit board in a DSLR is "a printed version". Other boards are rarely in use those days.
And never in DSLR cameras.

QuoteOriginally posted by sys3175 Quote
I don't think that someone actually replaced the electronic circuit board responsible for delivering the pulse that is supposed to release the solenoid, while this circuitry might very well be playing a role in this problem.
This PCB will have a name as well, like there is a "Flash PCB", a "Main PCB". I don't care what they are called because I just exchanged the solenoid(s)!

QuoteOriginally posted by sys3175 Quote
#5 might work accidentally because the parameters of the replacement solenoid better match the range of specs supported by the pulse circuitry, which seem to have gone out of match with the failing cameras. If this will keep up has to be seen. My camera still hasn't shown the problem again after more than 2000 shots.
Nonsense: Ricoh/Pentax here in Germany replaces now (after they heard about our findings!) just the solenoid against the same one but new!

They will not change something (with 1 year warranty) if this will "accidentally work".
Before "we, i.e. those who worked to try to find out the source of the problem" Ricoh/Pentax changed the complete "aperture block" for double the costs.

I have meanwhile exchanged several solenoids (the white "made in Japan" version only), 4 x K30, 1 x K50. I bought those damaged knowing it
was the solenoid. All work well again as they should. I am confident the solenoid is the problem and if users haven't applied "burst mode" nothing else should be damaged.
All are now in private use with family and relatives ... we shall see indeed what the future has in for us.

---------- Post added 05-11-17 at 02:03 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by 45 Mike Quote
I concur.
My K-30 is broken, it is in the basement on a shelf waiting for some determination of the cause, and a known repair path.
This has been shown already by Ricoh themselves, they replace the solenoid. It is known but you do not hear it.

QuoteOriginally posted by 45 Mike Quote
Until that time as I am confident that the root cause is positively identified, and a fix available to address that root cause, it will remain in disrepair.

I have other cameras that I can use. Yay Pentax lens interchangeability!

That is my position, and it is that way, because I am not willing to attempt myself, or pay for a repair based on speculation and voodoo.

I am happy that others are attempting to work out a solution, Keep at it. I just don't see a root cause that has been positively identified.
Fine, but placing the repair on speculation and voodoo is based on which personal (real) experience?

There is only one answer: NONE

Ricoh would not give 1 year warranty for repairs based on voodoo.
That the same problem can come back... to bad, they don't have the white solenoids.

So the future of your K30 is to become mouldy... fine
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For Sale - Sold: Focusingscreens.com EE-S Screen for K-3, K-5, K-5II, K-7, K-30, K-50 & K-500 Aperturae Sold Items 6 10-06-2014 06:49 AM
For Sale - Sold: KatzEye Split-Prism Focusing Screen - for K-3, K-5, K-5II, K-7, K-30, K-50 & K-500 chickentender Sold Items 7 04-15-2014 08:35 PM



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