K-30 / K-50 Aperture Block Failue - Repair Solution available

stevebrot · 05-29-2016, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Altglas

In camera repair oils and greases are generally only used in homeopathic doses

LOL

All that remains is the memory of what might have been oil!

The rest of your comment is very good too. I would be very wary of lubricating any part unless directed in the service manual and then only with the recommended lubricant. I wonder what the manual @niceshot purchased says in regards to lubricants for this solenoid?

Steve

Altglas · 05-29-2016, 11:54 AM

Since the K-30 has no problem according to Pentax no lubricant has to be used - so much is clear!

Using lubricants in production environments is quite costly. You have to apply the right volume to the right place and make no mess. So it is in fact not the best design to rely on lubricants in this application. Lubricants are also affected very much by temperature.

The whole amount of lubricants in a classic slr is probably less than 1 mm³.
I'm a mechanical engineer an am used to apply oil and grease in generous amounts. Before I tackle a camera repair, I have to lock away my grease gun. The key has a bad taste and is difficult to swallow.

**niceshot** · 05-29-2016, 12:03 PM

ok i am reading the whole forum blog, and it amounts to this, the man says that the magnet pulls the lever there by engaging the motor . so I am going back in to dabble some more

Altglas · 05-31-2016, 12:33 AM

I just looked into the K-30 / K-50 sub forum and it looks as if 25% of all activity there is centering around the aperture block failure! With so many cameras defective it probably won't take long to find someone to try and document the repair.

In the mean time Ricoh/Pentax are hopefully finishing their financial and technical planning for a full size call back. It would be quite a marketing move to show the whole market, that there ist at least one company that really stands behind it's product, even if its reacting a bit slow.

Probably in won't be long before the first frustrated buyers will start to think about handing in the broken cameras through the closed windows at Pentax head quarter.

**RobA_Oz** · 05-31-2016, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by 1wild1

When I worked in a parts store we had an additive called energy release and it had a testing display. This additive actually permeated the metal it seemed like where you actually had to take sand paper to the steel wheel to "clean" off the lubricant. If I were to try this repair, I would put some on a q-tip, dab the surface that needs it, and clean off all excess with a dry q-tip. There would be nothing to spread to the rest of the camera. The thought of graphite powder would scare the hell out of me, just personal opinion.

edit: link to it on amazon. Amazon.com: Energy Release P001 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment - 5 fl. oz. bottle: Automotive

Interesting link, thank you. The last time I looked at friction modifiers, molybdenum disulphide was all the rage (it was a long time ago), so I looked a little further into anti-friction treatments, and came up with this cautionary note. I don't know if they were talking about the Energy Release product or not, but it did sound a lot like it.

**niceshot** · 05-31-2016, 02:47 AM

I had this thing apart amerture and all and it is simple , it is a horse shoe thing that fits into the electro- magnet which is plastic. so what they are saying is to dis assemble it and clean it and put it back together. I guess they believe this will reduce the drag.This magnet acts as the trigger so to speak. from what I can deduce , if left in it current state it burns out the electric motor for the mirror and shutter curtain. SO in theory if you catch it in time and do this you will save your camera from complete failure. In my case it was to late . But I am sure it will work for those of you who are just starting to experience dark frames , AND IT IS EASY TO DO

IgorZ · 05-31-2016, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by niceshot

I had this thing apart amerture and all and it is simple , it is a horse shoe thing that fits into the electro- magnet which is plastic. so what they are saying is to dis assemble it and clean it and put it back together. I guess they believe this will reduce the drag.This magnet acts as the trigger so to speak. from what I can deduce , if left in it current state it burns out the electric motor for the mirror and shutter curtain. SO in theory if you catch it in time and do this you will save your camera from complete failure. In my case it was to late . But I am sure it will work for those of you who are just starting to experience dark frames , AND IT IS EASY TO DO

too late? so the electric motor is busted?

**niceshot** · 05-31-2016, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by IgorZ

too late? so the electric motor is busted?

yes the trick is to do this fix as soon as the black frame rears its ugly head, I HOPE EVERYBODY IS LISTENING

**JoseFF** · 05-31-2016, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by niceshot

I had this thing apart amerture and all and it is simple , it is a horse shoe thing that fits into the electro- magnet which is plastic. so what they are saying is to dis assemble it and clean it and put it back together. I guess they believe this will reduce the drag.This magnet acts as the trigger so to speak. from what I can deduce , if left in it current state it burns out the electric motor for the mirror and shutter curtain. SO in theory if you catch it in time and do this you will save your camera from complete failure. In my case it was to late . But I am sure it will work for those of you who are just starting to experience dark frames , AND IT IS EASY TO DO

Hello Niceshot, I am a bit confused could you show a photo or a diagram of it? Which forum blog are you referring to?

**niceshot** · 05-31-2016, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by JoseFF

Hello Niceshot, I am a bit confused could you show a photo or a diagram of it? Which forum blog are you referring to?

It is the same one in the beginning of the thread, I just used a translator. Any way it is very simple to get to that solenoid , and basically dismantle it clean it and put the camera back together

very simple really, the whole trick is do it before it burns up the mirror motor / aperture motor/ shutter motor.

**JoseFF** · 05-31-2016, 05:50 PM

According to the Russians procedure. Could anybody tell me which ones are the edges of the arm to file? 1, 2, 3? Please see the picture.

IgorZ · 05-31-2016, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by JoseFF

According to the Russians procedure. Could anybody tell me which ones are the edges of the arm to file? 1, 2, 3? Please see the picture.

My understanding is that it is #3

**JoseFF** · 05-31-2016, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by JoseFF

According to the Russians procedure. Could anybody tell me which ones are the edges of the arm to file? 1, 2, 3? Please see the picture.

Or are both faces?

IgorZ · 05-31-2016, 07:51 PM

Do you mean the front sides in the photograph above? The word they used in Russian can only refer to the narrowest part, so it would be the edge #3 in the picture. It also makes sense, since the magnet is on top.

stevebrot · 05-31-2016, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Altglas

I just looked into the K-30 / K-50 sub forum and it looks as if 25% of all activity there is centering around the aperture block failure!

Yes...that is the way it is sometimes. A problem often generates a lot of activity on this site and that is a good thing.

Originally posted by Altglas

In the mean time Ricoh/Pentax are hopefully finishing their financial and technical planning for a full size call back. It would be quite a marketing move to show the whole market, that there ist at least one company that really stands behind it's product, even if its reacting a bit slow.

Incredibly unlikely...That being said, perhaps you could call Ricoh Imaging, EU and suggest it to them. Posting here won't make any difference. Ricoh does not monitor any of the online forums.

Steve

05-31-2016, 05:50 PM	#101
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	According to the Russians procedure. Could anybody tell me which ones are the edges of the arm to file? 1, 2, 3? Please see the picture. Attached Images Last edited by JoseFF; 05-31-2016 at 06:22 PM.

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05-29-2016, 10:55 AM	#91
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Altglas In camera repair oils and greases are generally only used in homeopathic doses LOL All that remains is the memory of what might have been oil! The rest of your comment is very good too. I would be very wary of lubricating any part unless directed in the service manual and then only with the recommended lubricant. I wonder what the manual @niceshot purchased says in regards to lubricants for this solenoid? Steve

05-29-2016, 11:54 AM	#92
Altglas Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 41 Original Poster	Since the K-30 has no problem according to Pentax no lubricant has to be used - so much is clear! Using lubricants in production environments is quite costly. You have to apply the right volume to the right place and make no mess. So it is in fact not the best design to rely on lubricants in this application. Lubricants are also affected very much by temperature. The whole amount of lubricants in a classic slr is probably less than 1 mm³. I'm a mechanical engineer an am used to apply oil and grease in generous amounts. Before I tackle a camera repair, I have to lock away my grease gun. The key has a bad taste and is difficult to swallow.

05-29-2016, 12:03 PM	#93
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	ok i am reading the whole forum blog, and it amounts to this, the man says that the magnet pulls the lever there by engaging the motor . so I am going back in to dabble some more

05-31-2016, 12:33 AM	#94
Altglas Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 41 Original Poster	I just looked into the K-30 / K-50 sub forum and it looks as if 25% of all activity there is centering around the aperture block failure! With so many cameras defective it probably won't take long to find someone to try and document the repair. In the mean time Ricoh/Pentax are hopefully finishing their financial and technical planning for a full size call back. It would be quite a marketing move to show the whole market, that there ist at least one company that really stands behind it's product, even if its reacting a bit slow. Probably in won't be long before the first frustrated buyers will start to think about handing in the broken cameras through the closed windows at Pentax head quarter.

05-31-2016, 01:05 AM	#95
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by 1wild1 When I worked in a parts store we had an additive called energy release and it had a testing display. This additive actually permeated the metal it seemed like where you actually had to take sand paper to the steel wheel to "clean" off the lubricant. If I were to try this repair, I would put some on a q-tip, dab the surface that needs it, and clean off all excess with a dry q-tip. There would be nothing to spread to the rest of the camera. The thought of graphite powder would scare the hell out of me, just personal opinion. edit: link to it on amazon. Amazon.com: Energy Release P001 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment - 5 fl. oz. bottle: Automotive Interesting link, thank you. The last time I looked at friction modifiers, molybdenum disulphide was all the rage (it was a long time ago), so I looked a little further into anti-friction treatments, and came up with this cautionary note. I don't know if they were talking about the Energy Release product or not, but it did sound a lot like it.

05-31-2016, 02:47 AM	#96
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	I had this thing apart amerture and all and it is simple , it is a horse shoe thing that fits into the electro- magnet which is plastic. so what they are saying is to dis assemble it and clean it and put it back together. I guess they believe this will reduce the drag.This magnet acts as the trigger so to speak. from what I can deduce , if left in it current state it burns out the electric motor for the mirror and shutter curtain. SO in theory if you catch it in time and do this you will save your camera from complete failure. In my case it was to late . But I am sure it will work for those of you who are just starting to experience dark frames , AND IT IS EASY TO DO

05-31-2016, 07:37 AM	#97
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Originally posted by niceshot I had this thing apart amerture and all and it is simple , it is a horse shoe thing that fits into the electro- magnet which is plastic. so what they are saying is to dis assemble it and clean it and put it back together. I guess they believe this will reduce the drag.This magnet acts as the trigger so to speak. from what I can deduce , if left in it current state it burns out the electric motor for the mirror and shutter curtain. SO in theory if you catch it in time and do this you will save your camera from complete failure. In my case it was to late . But I am sure it will work for those of you who are just starting to experience dark frames , AND IT IS EASY TO DO too late? so the electric motor is busted?

05-31-2016, 10:57 AM	#98
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by IgorZ too late? so the electric motor is busted? yes the trick is to do this fix as soon as the black frame rears its ugly head, I HOPE EVERYBODY IS LISTENING

05-31-2016, 01:03 PM	#99
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	Originally posted by niceshot I had this thing apart amerture and all and it is simple , it is a horse shoe thing that fits into the electro- magnet which is plastic. so what they are saying is to dis assemble it and clean it and put it back together. I guess they believe this will reduce the drag.This magnet acts as the trigger so to speak. from what I can deduce , if left in it current state it burns out the electric motor for the mirror and shutter curtain. SO in theory if you catch it in time and do this you will save your camera from complete failure. In my case it was to late . But I am sure it will work for those of you who are just starting to experience dark frames , AND IT IS EASY TO DO Hello Niceshot, I am a bit confused could you show a photo or a diagram of it? Which forum blog are you referring to?

05-31-2016, 01:09 PM	#100
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by JoseFF Hello Niceshot, I am a bit confused could you show a photo or a diagram of it? Which forum blog are you referring to? It is the same one in the beginning of the thread, I just used a translator. Any way it is very simple to get to that solenoid , and basically dismantle it clean it and put the camera back together very simple really, the whole trick is do it before it burns up the mirror motor / aperture motor/ shutter motor.

05-31-2016, 06:48 PM	#102
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Originally posted by JoseFF According to the Russians procedure. Could anybody tell me which ones are the edges of the arm to file? 1, 2, 3? Please see the picture. My understanding is that it is #3

05-31-2016, 07:25 PM	#103
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	Originally posted by JoseFF According to the Russians procedure. Could anybody tell me which ones are the edges of the arm to file? 1, 2, 3? Please see the picture. Or are both faces?

05-31-2016, 07:51 PM	#104
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Do you mean the front sides in the photograph above? The word they used in Russian can only refer to the narrowest part, so it would be the edge #3 in the picture. It also makes sense, since the magnet is on top.

05-31-2016, 08:18 PM	#105
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Altglas I just looked into the K-30 / K-50 sub forum and it looks as if 25% of all activity there is centering around the aperture block failure! Yes...that is the way it is sometimes. A problem often generates a lot of activity on this site and that is a good thing. Originally posted by Altglas In the mean time Ricoh/Pentax are hopefully finishing their financial and technical planning for a full size call back. It would be quite a marketing move to show the whole market, that there ist at least one company that really stands behind it's product, even if its reacting a bit slow. Incredibly unlikely...That being said, perhaps you could call Ricoh Imaging, EU and suggest it to them. Posting here won't make any difference. Ricoh does not monitor any of the online forums. Steve