K-30 / K-50 Aperture Block Failue - Repair Solution available

**JoseFF** · 07-11-2016, 07:04 AM

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Originally posted by niceshot

yes i will here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/189-repairs-warranty-service/325334-k-30-k-50-ap

The link seems to be broken...

**niceshot** · 07-12-2016, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by reh321

I am now convinced, based on feedback from a user in another thread, that we have been discussing two different problems in this thread.

(1) Aperture control problem, the problem the Russians were dealing with, causes severely under-exposed images to be created, because the aperture is not adjusted; the easy "solution" for that is to use m42-mount lenses because their aperture control is totally manual and totally separate from the camera.

(2) Shutter operation, the problem niceshot was dealing with, causes totally black image to be created, because the shutter is stuck shut; I don't see any solution other than repairing {or buying a new camera} - and as niceshot has demonstrated, issues may cascade, in that case from stuck shutter to ruined motor.

You are almost correct, the problem is if the shutter is on its way out it can mimic the dark frame problem. So coincidentally I took anoth look at the shutter , turns out the thing must have been dropped at the factory breaking the side of it and a piece of plastic was stuck in the way of the second shutter causing it to jam

richandfleur · 07-12-2016, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by reh321

I am now convinced, based on feedback from a user in another thread, that we have been discussing two different problems in this thread.

(1) Aperture control problem, the problem the Russians were dealing with, causes severely under-exposed images to be created, because the aperture is not adjusted; the easy "solution" for that is to use m42-mount lenses because their aperture control is totally manual and totally separate from the camera.

(2) Shutter operation, the problem niceshot was dealing with, causes totally black image to be created, because the shutter is stuck shut; I don't see any solution other than repairing {or buying a new camera} - and as niceshot has demonstrated, issues may cascade, in that case from stuck shutter to ruined motor.

These two are easily confused also, as one of the downsides to the lens aperture not being controlled correctly is incorrect metering, leading to too fast a shutter speed being selected and a dark frame being produced.

Where the aperture control is failing though, you will likely experience a range of outcomes, right from heavily underexposed through to over exposed essentially full white images.

Shutter operation should be consistently all crap.

Yes, testing with a manual aperture ring equipped lens should highlight the core issue.

---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 02:36 PM ----------

Originally posted by niceshot

yes i will here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/189-repairs-warranty-service/325334-k-30-k-50-ap

This link isn't working, but I'm very interested in your findings and details around this 'spring slipped out' type issue and resolution.

Fingers crossed I'm dealing with the aperture only issue on my faulty k-30...

Thanks.

**JoseFF** · 07-13-2016, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by reh321

I am now convinced, based on feedback from a user in another thread, that we have been discussing two different problems in this thread.

(1) Aperture control problem, the problem the Russians were dealing with, causes severely under-exposed images to be created, because the aperture is not adjusted; the easy "solution" for that is to use m42-mount lenses because their aperture control is totally manual and totally separate from the camera.

(2) Shutter operation, the problem niceshot was dealing with, causes totally black image to be created, because the shutter is stuck shut; I don't see any solution other than repairing {or buying a new camera} - and as niceshot has demonstrated, issues may cascade, in that case from stuck shutter to ruined motor.

Could you let us a link to that other thread pls?

---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 07:56 AM ----------

Originally posted by richandfleur

These two are easily confused also, as one of the downsides to the lens aperture not being controlled correctly is incorrect metering, leading to too fast a shutter speed being selected and a dark frame being produced.

Where the aperture control is failing though, you will likely experience a range of outcomes, right from heavily underexposed through to over exposed essentially full white images.

Shutter operation should be consistently all crap.

Yes, testing with a manual aperture ring equipped lens should highlight the core issue.

---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 02:36 PM ----------

This link isn't working, but I'm very interested in your findings and details around this 'spring slipped out' type issue and resolution.

Fingers crossed I'm dealing with the aperture only issue on my faulty k-30...

Thanks.

In my case (I have a K-30 too) I am dealing with a failing aperture control. Why am I so sure?... Because I can clearly see the lens not being stopped when I shoot setting the aperture to any value other than its maximum. As a result the pictures are always under exposed unless conditions are of very bright light but never have I gotten an over exposed picture.
Using manual lenses (K mount type with aperture ring) has been a solution for me since I have been able to shoot 100% manual or use the green button to meter with the lens stopped down.
Also I have gotten a way to use automatic aperture lenses by placing an "artificial" stop on the aperture lever of the lens hence shooting at "fixed" aperture mode.
Hope we are both dealing with the aperture only issue and that it doesn´t lead to a shutter issue later.

reh321 · 07-13-2016, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by JoseFF

Could you let us a link to that other thread pls?

{following is the link that JoseFF asked for}
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/325602-shutter-dead.html#post3708755

**JoseFF** · 07-13-2016, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by reh321

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/325602-shutter-dead.html#post3708755

No, but just in case my aperture problems derive to a shutter issue...

**niceshot** · 07-13-2016, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by JoseFF

No, but just in case my aperture problems derive to a shutter issue...

Jose FF i did put the pictures up on aperture repair diy. But I am not confident in the rebuild so I am ordering up a donor body to compare them. When I do I will report back with a detailed analysis of it

**niceshot** · 07-13-2016, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by reh321

A side-question: Did you discover that just one motor powers both the shutter and the mirror - so when that one motor fails, both the mirror and the shutter fail??

The mirror motor controls the mirror and the aperture, and two powerful electromagnet inside the shutter mechanism controls the shutter.

stevebrot · 07-13-2016, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by reh321

A side-question: Did you discover that just one motor powers both the shutter and the mirror - so when that one motor fails, both the mirror and the shutter fail??

It is my understanding that the two are separate. At exposure time, the shutter uses a linear motor built into the assembly. The mirror drive, OTOH, is visible in the various photos on this thread. It is unclear to me whether the shutter requires an outside motor to cock the mechanism with the Copal shutters used by Pentax. On manual wind film cameras, this was definitely the case. To make things even less clear, some shutters alternate directions between exposures.

Steve

**JoseFF** · 07-13-2016, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by niceshot

Jose FF i did put the pictures up on aperture repair diy. But I am not confident in the rebuild so I am ordering up a donor body to compare them. When I do I will report back with a detailed analysis of it

Thank you niceshot, looking forward to see it

richandfleur · 07-17-2016, 01:26 PM

Is there a list of suitable donor bodies for aperture controller parts?

As I understand it, they've had the same design for many years (and one assumes it's in the new K-70 also), and I'd like to know what damaged/cheap bodies would be suitable donors for my new K-30?

Ideally there is a part that can be replaced by off the shelf components, but in the event that it's something requiring Pentax specific parts, it would be nice to know in advance which models would be suitable for this purpose.

**niceshot** · 07-17-2016, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Is there a list of suitable donor bodies for aperture controller parts?

As I understand it, they've had the same design for many years (and one assumes it's in the new K-70 also), and I'd like to know what damaged/cheap bodies would be suitable donors for my new K-30?

Ideally there is a part that can be replaced by off the shelf components, but in the event that it's something requiring Pentax specific parts, it would be nice to know in advance which models would be suitable for this purpose.

Richard as far as Know you can get any camera from the Pentax DLl to the current series. As far as the shutter goes you would just swap the base plate. And on the aperture control block you just need to replace the motor or replace the whole thing. I is a major job. Just to rule out the mirror motor just apply 2 volts to it red lead is positive. It should raise the mirror , if it doesn't, you are in for a major job

richandfleur · 07-17-2016, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by niceshot

on the aperture control block you just need to replace the motor or replace the whole thing.

Thanks. Is this aperture motor a standard part one can order separately from the likes of aliexpress etc?

**niceshot** · 07-17-2016, 03:05 PM

here is the link Pentax K 7 Digital SLR Replacement Mirror Motor Repair Part New Genuine | eBay

richandfleur · 07-17-2016, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by niceshot

here is the link Pentax K 7 Digital SLR Replacement Mirror Motor Repair Part New Genuine | eBay

Thanks

Still haven't had time to sit through the epic threads on this aperture problem root cause.

Is the motor linked to above a solution for this? Just that it refers to being a shutter motor, which in my case the shutter still works fine. Recall posts suggesting they are linked, but other make reference to electro magnetic solenoids sticking etc.

07-13-2016, 10:32 AM	#170
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by JoseFF Could you let us a link to that other thread pls? {following is the link that JoseFF asked for} https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/325602-shutter-dead.html#post3708755 Last edited by reh321; 07-13-2016 at 01:51 PM. Reason: link apparently not clear

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07-11-2016, 07:04 AM	#166
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. Originally posted by niceshot yes i will here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/189-repairs-warranty-service/325334-k-30-k-50-ap The link seems to be broken...

07-12-2016, 09:59 AM	#167
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by reh321 I am now convinced, based on feedback from a user in another thread, that we have been discussing two different problems in this thread. (1) Aperture control problem, the problem the Russians were dealing with, causes severely under-exposed images to be created, because the aperture is not adjusted; the easy "solution" for that is to use m42-mount lenses because their aperture control is totally manual and totally separate from the camera. (2) Shutter operation, the problem niceshot was dealing with, causes totally black image to be created, because the shutter is stuck shut; I don't see any solution other than repairing {or buying a new camera} - and as niceshot has demonstrated, issues may cascade, in that case from stuck shutter to ruined motor. You are almost correct, the problem is if the shutter is on its way out it can mimic the dark frame problem. So coincidentally I took anoth look at the shutter , turns out the thing must have been dropped at the factory breaking the side of it and a piece of plastic was stuck in the way of the second shutter causing it to jam

07-12-2016, 07:32 PM	#168
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by reh321 I am now convinced, based on feedback from a user in another thread, that we have been discussing two different problems in this thread. (1) Aperture control problem, the problem the Russians were dealing with, causes severely under-exposed images to be created, because the aperture is not adjusted; the easy "solution" for that is to use m42-mount lenses because their aperture control is totally manual and totally separate from the camera. (2) Shutter operation, the problem niceshot was dealing with, causes totally black image to be created, because the shutter is stuck shut; I don't see any solution other than repairing {or buying a new camera} - and as niceshot has demonstrated, issues may cascade, in that case from stuck shutter to ruined motor. These two are easily confused also, as one of the downsides to the lens aperture not being controlled correctly is incorrect metering, leading to too fast a shutter speed being selected and a dark frame being produced. Where the aperture control is failing though, you will likely experience a range of outcomes, right from heavily underexposed through to over exposed essentially full white images. Shutter operation should be consistently all crap. Yes, testing with a manual aperture ring equipped lens should highlight the core issue. ---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 02:36 PM ---------- Originally posted by niceshot yes i will here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/189-repairs-warranty-service/325334-k-30-k-50-ap This link isn't working, but I'm very interested in your findings and details around this 'spring slipped out' type issue and resolution. Fingers crossed I'm dealing with the aperture only issue on my faulty k-30... Thanks.

07-13-2016, 07:27 AM	#169
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	Originally posted by reh321 I am now convinced, based on feedback from a user in another thread, that we have been discussing two different problems in this thread. (1) Aperture control problem, the problem the Russians were dealing with, causes severely under-exposed images to be created, because the aperture is not adjusted; the easy "solution" for that is to use m42-mount lenses because their aperture control is totally manual and totally separate from the camera. (2) Shutter operation, the problem niceshot was dealing with, causes totally black image to be created, because the shutter is stuck shut; I don't see any solution other than repairing {or buying a new camera} - and as niceshot has demonstrated, issues may cascade, in that case from stuck shutter to ruined motor. Could you let us a link to that other thread pls? ---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 07:56 AM ---------- Originally posted by richandfleur These two are easily confused also, as one of the downsides to the lens aperture not being controlled correctly is incorrect metering, leading to too fast a shutter speed being selected and a dark frame being produced. Where the aperture control is failing though, you will likely experience a range of outcomes, right from heavily underexposed through to over exposed essentially full white images. Shutter operation should be consistently all crap. Yes, testing with a manual aperture ring equipped lens should highlight the core issue. ---------- Post added 07-13-16 at 02:36 PM ---------- This link isn't working, but I'm very interested in your findings and details around this 'spring slipped out' type issue and resolution. Fingers crossed I'm dealing with the aperture only issue on my faulty k-30... Thanks. In my case (I have a K-30 too) I am dealing with a failing aperture control. Why am I so sure?... Because I can clearly see the lens not being stopped when I shoot setting the aperture to any value other than its maximum. As a result the pictures are always under exposed unless conditions are of very bright light but never have I gotten an over exposed picture. Using manual lenses (K mount type with aperture ring) has been a solution for me since I have been able to shoot 100% manual or use the green button to meter with the lens stopped down. Also I have gotten a way to use automatic aperture lenses by placing an "artificial" stop on the aperture lever of the lens hence shooting at "fixed" aperture mode. Hope we are both dealing with the aperture only issue and that it doesn´t lead to a shutter issue later.

07-13-2016, 12:51 PM	#171
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	Originally posted by reh321 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/325602-shutter-dead.html#post3708755 No, but just in case my aperture problems derive to a shutter issue...

07-13-2016, 01:08 PM	#172
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by JoseFF No, but just in case my aperture problems derive to a shutter issue... Jose FF i did put the pictures up on aperture repair diy. But I am not confident in the rebuild so I am ordering up a donor body to compare them. When I do I will report back with a detailed analysis of it

07-13-2016, 02:57 PM	#173
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by reh321 A side-question: Did you discover that just one motor powers both the shutter and the mirror - so when that one motor fails, both the mirror and the shutter fail?? The mirror motor controls the mirror and the aperture, and two powerful electromagnet inside the shutter mechanism controls the shutter.

07-13-2016, 04:06 PM	#174
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by reh321 A side-question: Did you discover that just one motor powers both the shutter and the mirror - so when that one motor fails, both the mirror and the shutter fail?? It is my understanding that the two are separate. At exposure time, the shutter uses a linear motor built into the assembly. The mirror drive, OTOH, is visible in the various photos on this thread. It is unclear to me whether the shutter requires an outside motor to cock the mechanism with the Copal shutters used by Pentax. On manual wind film cameras, this was definitely the case. To make things even less clear, some shutters alternate directions between exposures. Steve

07-13-2016, 07:27 PM	#175
JoseFF Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 184	Originally posted by niceshot Jose FF i did put the pictures up on aperture repair diy. But I am not confident in the rebuild so I am ordering up a donor body to compare them. When I do I will report back with a detailed analysis of it Thank you niceshot, looking forward to see it

07-17-2016, 01:26 PM	#176
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Is there a list of suitable donor bodies for aperture controller parts? As I understand it, they've had the same design for many years (and one assumes it's in the new K-70 also), and I'd like to know what damaged/cheap bodies would be suitable donors for my new K-30? Ideally there is a part that can be replaced by off the shelf components, but in the event that it's something requiring Pentax specific parts, it would be nice to know in advance which models would be suitable for this purpose.

07-17-2016, 01:33 PM	#177
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by richandfleur Is there a list of suitable donor bodies for aperture controller parts? As I understand it, they've had the same design for many years (and one assumes it's in the new K-70 also), and I'd like to know what damaged/cheap bodies would be suitable donors for my new K-30? Ideally there is a part that can be replaced by off the shelf components, but in the event that it's something requiring Pentax specific parts, it would be nice to know in advance which models would be suitable for this purpose. Richard as far as Know you can get any camera from the Pentax DLl to the current series. As far as the shutter goes you would just swap the base plate. And on the aperture control block you just need to replace the motor or replace the whole thing. I is a major job. Just to rule out the mirror motor just apply 2 volts to it red lead is positive. It should raise the mirror , if it doesn't, you are in for a major job

07-17-2016, 03:01 PM	#178
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by niceshot on the aperture control block you just need to replace the motor or replace the whole thing. Thanks. Is this aperture motor a standard part one can order separately from the likes of aliexpress etc?

07-17-2016, 03:05 PM	#179
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	here is the link Pentax K 7 Digital SLR Replacement Mirror Motor Repair Part New Genuine \| eBay

07-17-2016, 03:40 PM	#180
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by niceshot here is the link Pentax K 7 Digital SLR Replacement Mirror Motor Repair Part New Genuine \| eBay Thanks Still haven't had time to sit through the epic threads on this aperture problem root cause. Is the motor linked to above a solution for this? Just that it refers to being a shutter motor, which in my case the shutter still works fine. Recall posts suggesting they are linked, but other make reference to electro magnetic solenoids sticking etc.