[photogem]

Wow, what an angry response, if he did it another way that worked, don't get so worked up.

Not at all an angry response! It is a clarifying response.

I'm neither "worked up" at all, "I kind of work up" i.e. correct errors! To help those who are going to undertake this repair!

I always respect people who make efforts and Takumar55 made a great effort, dared to overcome something and did it!

It worked for him....

Indeed... but with some serious difficulties which he described also very well. And here we come to the (important) point:

But because he did not inscrew the top-part which he later saw quite rightly as not being the best approach he thought that this long silver screw inside the battery-compartment would not have to be removed. This is a misleading advice because it can lead to full damage of the Pentax.
That would work up the person who would follow this advice very much... and later if posted here "as a possibly angry response" it would lead to Takumar55 feeling very worked up because a wrong advice has lead to the loss of another members DLSR!

...and I'm sure everyone contemplating doing the job, knows it's not going to be a walk in the park. When the time comes I might rather try the minimal invasion route first, and only if it doesn't work, I'll try the other.

You miss my point! We all know about this and for some it is actually a walk in the park, for others it might not be. Leave it to them and what you do is your choice, fine, but I will keep up to warn people not to go this imho very silly road to file/sand or even worse, to solder the horseshoe.
IMHO to me this is the road to be avoided at all cost. I have described all too often why and .... this is not 0 + 0 = 0 but it is 10 + 10 =20 if you know what I mean. If not: I had Pentax K30's and K50's on my workbench and have seen and studied what damage arises doing this "lazy approach".

If people give advice, they must know what they speak about, must know that this very given advice is the right thing!

People have given clear instructions here how it works.

My other point is very simpel:

If people give odd (wrong) advice and it is published here in this thread or others, newbees often tend to take the latest advice as the latest wisdom!
So people such as me who have done this work many many times, have done research etc.... we have to correct those errors.

And having to do this repeatedly is just that little bit tiring and really... could be avoided.

I understand that people are proud and wish to share their success and they should do so, are encouraged to do so...
and yet, if there are errors, they demand for the described reasons correction. Simply physics!

But alas... it is ... even more tiring to have to respond to posts which make things even more complicated.
When people who have zero practical experience feel the need to comment things they have no idea about.
Thats my very personal private opionion, others will have different opinions, fine, thats how it is.


ps: If I write posts and I underline, use red colour or large letters, this is NOT AT ALL ANGER! it is simply to underline very important aspects
so people know this is very important.

Plus... English is not my native language, so every sentence I write demands quite some effort.

[Tangent88]

This solenoid problem seems to have pushed up the price of old Pentax DSLRs with the white solenoid.

[Takumar55]

Tangent88, I am not surprised. I paid $45 for the white solenoid by itself from the ebay vendor. He has a ton of them for sale. People must be snatching up all the old cameras.

altopiet and photogem - I appreciate the responses to my K-30 repair. I did not intend to contradict the instructions given; just meant to show by recent example that the repair is doable. Perhaps I made it sound like I was countermanding the directions. No offense taken.

However, I still don't know why the screw at the bottom of the battery well needs to be removed. I assure you I did no damage to the camera. Obviously, it does not hurt to take it out. But I was confused that the screw count says 13, and this would be the 14th screw. But better safe than sorry.

As for taking off the top, I did lift it a few millimeters; I just did not want to detach any of the soldered wires. It is still a bit of a pain to get the solenoid in and out for those of who don't do this all the time.

I took the camera out for a spin and it performed flawlessly. So I am happy with it again. Is it just my imagination, or does the white solenoid also make it more responsive than when new? I have not handled the camera in a year before this, so very well could be imagination.

[photogem]

Tangent88, I am not surprised. I paid $45 for the white solenoid by itself from the ebay vendor.

This price is alright I find. I mean he does it professionally, has to pay tax. Finding old bodys, dismantling them, getting the solenoid out and testing it is work.
Nothing wrong with this, its business. Plus people have a save source.

altopiet and photogem - I appreciate the responses to my K-30 repair. I did not intend to contradict the instructions given; just meant to show by recent example that the repair is doable. Perhaps I made it sound like I was countermanding the directions. No offense taken.

I was not offended. It is more about what I wrote previously about things which can be misleading:

However, I still don't know why the screw at the bottom of the battery well needs to be removed. I assure you I did no damage to the camera. Obviously, it does not hurt to take it out. But I was confused that the screw count says 13, and this would be the 14th screw. But better safe than sorry.

The screwcount is for the K50 which has 1 screw less below the flash:

K30: 3 screws
K50 and K500: 2 screws

Nevertheless: In a few days somebody will bring his K30 to me for repair. I will check for this screw and report.

As far as I can remember I had situations where this screw was screwed in too tight and did damage the plastic it screws in (when originally assembled!).
So it didn't hold tight anymore. I could not get it out as easely as I normally do. This might explain why you were able to lift the top-part anyway.

As for taking off the top, I did lift it a few millimeters; I just did not want to detach any of the soldered wires. It is still a bit of a pain to get the solenoid in and out for those of who don't do this all the time.

Both wires which are soldered on the pins of the solenoid can after unsoldering be moved "out of the way to the left side of the solenoid, they are long enough.
I recommend to place some tissue under the wires and then to give them a tiny bit of melted solder by touching their ends with the hot solder-iron-tip and with some very thin fine solder onto those open ends. Thus they can be resoldered onto the pins of the white solenoid very easely. The tissue or cloth is for security just in case some solder might drop down.

The K30 lays on its back (LCD facing downwards and protected with some cloth or similar). So the Solenoid is in front of you. One has very easy access to it and the screw but as mentioned, the JIS +0 screwdriver is slightly tilted, but it is really easy to get the screw of the solenoid in and out.

I took the camera out for a spin and it performed flawlessly. So I am happy with it again. Is it just my imagination, or does the white solenoid also make it more responsive than when new? I have not handled the camera in a year before this, so very well could be imagination.

Indeed it does! The white solenoid triggers very fast and the horseshoe moves much easier it's PTFE-housing that that one of the green solenoid in it's cheap PET housing. Also because the surface of the horseshoe is much smoother it moves faster.


A filed horseshoe in a green solenoid (or worse a horseshoe modified with solder using the Russian method) moves even more uncontrolled and unprecise, the friction is higher.

This is why it gets in most cases damaged completly after a while

A K30 with the white solenoid (and K50/ K500/ K-S1 / K-S2 and most likely the K70 as well) will perform that bit faster because the white solenoid works very fast.


Well observed!

[photogem]

However, I still don't know why the screw at the bottom of the battery well needs to be removed. I assure you I did no damage to the camera. Obviously, it does not hurt to take it out. But I was confused that the screw count says 13, and this would be the 14th screw. But better safe than sorry.

As for taking off the top, I did lift it a few millimeters; I just did not want to detach any of the soldered wires. It is still a bit of a pain to get the solenoid in and out for those of who don't do this all the time.

Today I repaired a K-30 and checked for this "long silver screw in the battery compartment":

!!! IT MUST BE REMOVED BY ALL MEANS !!!


There is clearly the counterpart in the top-part for it with a thread were it screws in!

You were lucky that you didn't do more damage to your K30, because the thread in the plastic (top-part) probably just gave in when you lifted the top-part.


This long silver screw for sure is there to fix the top part on that very side next to the ON/OFF Button!


There is no daubt about this.

So you see, this are those dangerous "hints" which can lead to damage because one hasn't really verified but believes afterwards from actually bad memory.

Don't take this personally please, it isn't meant personally at all! It is just very important and I am sure you understand it.

[LSAGuy]

I bought the complete replacement assembly with the white solenoid from USCamera for $35. Anyone replaced the whole assembly? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Rick

---------- Post added 10-02-18 at 07:26 AM ----------

I just compared the new assembly with the photograph of the solenoid on page one of this discussion. The difference in the new board (mfg date of 9/9/2017) is the neodymium magnet has been moved up so that there is a 1.5 mm (eye ball measurement ) gap between the magnet and the plastic coil bobbin. This seems to support the argument that the fix reduces the magnetic force drawing the plunger in.

Rick

[Not a Number]

I bought the complete replacement assembly with the white solenoid from USCamera for $35. Anyone replaced the whole assembly? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Rick

---------- Post added 10-02-18 at 07:26 AM ----------

I just compared the new assembly with the photograph of the solenoid on page one of this discussion. The difference in the new board (mfg date of 9/9/2017) is the neodymium magnet has been moved up so that there is a 1.5 mm (eye ball measurement ) gap between the magnet and the plastic coil bobbin. This seems to support the argument that the fix reduces the magnetic force drawing the plunger in.

Rick

So indeed Ricoh still uses the white solenoid. At least as of 9/9/2017. No way of telling if they were used all along with only some with the green without taking a large enough sample and opening them up. It also means that when the "diaphragm assembly block" is replaced by Ricoh or an authorized service center a new suspect green solenoid may not be installed.

It could also explain the low second failure rate of Ricoh serviced cameras which replaces the entire block.

Did you swap out only the solenoid or the entire block? It is possible that something in the block failed along with or instead of the solenoid.

The gap on the magnet may just be due to the strength of the magnet - less gap, weaker magnet.

Thanks for sharing.

---

Last edited by Not a Number; 10-02-2018 at 04:19 PM.

[photogem]

I bought the complete replacement assembly with the white solenoid from USCamera for $35. Anyone replaced the whole assembly? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I just compared the new assembly with the photograph of the solenoid on page one of this discussion. The difference in the new board (mfg date of 9/9/2017) is the neodymium magnet has been moved up so that there is a 1.5 mm (eye ball measurement ) gap between the magnet and the plastic coil bobbin. This seems to support the argument that the fix reduces the magnetic force drawing the plunger in. Rick

Could you post photos of the new board with the white solenoid.
This would be greatly appreciated!

[reh321]

So indeed Ricoh still uses the white solenoid. At least as of 9/9/2017. No way of telling if they were used all along with only some with the green without taking a large enough sample and opening them up. It also means that when the "diaphragm assembly block" is replaced by Ricoh or an authorized service center a new suspect green solenoid may not be installed.

At this point I'm not sure whether the phrase "Ricoh still uses" is correct. It is possible that this is a third configuration, an attempt to re-create the original one. My Super Program still works, thirty-plus years after I purchased it. I'm not aware of any failures before the K-30 {it would be interesting to find out what is in a K-01, but I wouldn't want to 'sacrifice' one to find out}. Any failures at all may be higher than the rate set by the original configuration.

[Not a Number]

Compare the photo of the part on US Camera's site with that of the photo from the K10D service manual. Aside from the color of the solenoid/electromagnet they appear identical.

The block used in the manual focus film cameras is different. They do not have a motor but rather depend on springs that get cocked with the film advance.

[reh321]

Compare the photo of the part on US Camera's site with that of the photo from the K10D service manual. Aside from the color of the solenoid/electromagnet they appear identical.

I would expect the solenoids to look exactly the same - my question is whether there is a way to verify that they are the same ..... especially difficult to differentiate between different metal alloys.

[reh321]

I bought the complete replacement assembly with the white solenoid from USCamera for $35. Anyone replaced the whole assembly? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Did the one they send you look like the one on their web page? It looks like the so-called "green" one to my eyes.

Pentax K-S2 K30 K50 Diaphragm Control Block. USCamera Pentax PartsUSCamera

[LSAGuy]

Yep, that's the assembly I bought, EXCEPT mine has a white solenoid bobbin. I don't know if the color of the bobbin matters. What I do see is that the magnet has been moved on this solenoid, too. Compare this photo to one of the earlier ones of the solenoid and you'll see how the placement of the magnet has changed.

Rick

[hnikesch]

Yep, that's the assembly I bought, EXCEPT mine has a white solenoid bobbin. I don't know if the color of the bobbin matters. What I do see is that the magnet has been moved on this solenoid, too. Compare this photo to one of the earlier ones of the solenoid and you'll see how the placement of the magnet has changed.

Rick

What's interesting to me is in the above image is the slide (fork) is slightly tipped not straight indicating slop in the solenoid housing.

[photogem]

I bought the complete replacement assembly with the white solenoid from USCamera for $35. Anyone replaced the whole assembly? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

.......


I just compared the new assembly with the photograph of the solenoid on page one of this discussion. The difference in the new board (mfg date of 9/9/2017) is the neodymium magnet has been moved up so that there is a 1.5 mm (eye ball measurement ) gap between the magnet and the plastic coil bobbin. This seems to support the argument that the fix reduces the magnetic force drawing the plunger in.

Rick

Rick, could you upload a photo of your assembly of just the solenoid?


It would help to compare:

I have just ordered the "made in China" white solenoid (allthough I don't need it) and will take photos as soon as it has arrived.


So having a photo of your solenoid would help a great deal!

What's interesting to me is in the above image is the slide (fork) is slightly tipped not straight indicating slop in the solenoid housing.

What you mean is what we often call the "horseshoe", i.e. the bottom part which slides to activate the shutter.
The way it is shown on this photo is with an activated solenoid, i.e. the horseshoe is out. Because it gets pulled from the mechanism.

This is the reason why the China made solenoids get stuck: the cheap (green) PET material is way inferior to the high quality PTFE (teflon) of the made in Japan white solenoid. Teflon is a wonderful bearing material and is going to last a very long time. It was used for much more complicated bearings with very strong force per square millimeter and lasts long long time without any signs of wear. Think about it: PTFE was used to coat pans (non-sticky pans) and deals with strong heat, knifes and other utilities, not healthy when it comes off but until then, very robust.

So what you see here is how a solenoid looks like when in action. And you can see why materials matter.