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12-29-2016, 08:25 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
But what about all the people who have this problem with no chance of getting it fixed by Pentax?
What do you mean? Nobody has reported that their cameras sent in for repair were sent back as unrepairable or the problem still existing even after servicing. There is one person in South Africa reporting that the problem has resurfaced some time after being "repaired". For the most part it appears that once repaired the problem doesn't re-occur.

The DIY repairs and 3rd party fixes are too recent and the sample size too small to gather any data points as to the longevity of these repairs.

12-30-2016, 06:49 AM   #17
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Yes, not sure on the data, but one thing for sure, Precision replaces the entire aperture block with a new one. Is this a revised item, or the same old one? If the same old one, it's domed for failure. From what I read, repairing the "problem" is a better fix.

I get a year warranty and a break on re-occurrence of the problem. If i can get a couple of more years, then it's time for a replacement. Maybe by that time there will be more data on the K70 which has a different aperture motor, so I'm told by Pentax.

I've told others to wait till I get my K50 back from repair, mailing it out today.

Paolo
12-30-2016, 11:16 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
Yes, not sure on the data, but one thing for sure, Precision replaces the entire aperture block with a new one. Is this a revised item, or the same old one? If the same old one, it's domed for failure. From what I read, repairing the "problem" is a better fix.

I get a year warranty and a break on re-occurrence of the problem. If i can get a couple of more years, then it's time for a replacement. Maybe by that time there will be more data on the K70 which has a different aperture motor, so I'm told by Pentax.

I've told others to wait till I get my K50 back from repair, mailing it out today.

Paolo
The most recently available surveys show Pentax with an over-all failure rate of 7%
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Fall 2015 Report for period 2010-2015 (not current survey)
  • Panasonic: 4%
  • Canon: 5%
  • Sony: 7%
  • Pentax: 7%
  • Nikon: 8%
  • Olympus: 8%
There were no results for Fuji.
Despite the comments you hear here, things unrelated to aperture block do fail, and upper-tier cameras like the K-3ii do fail, so aperture-block can fail on cameras like the K-30/50 only so-often. Let's say failure rate for that part were as high as 20% {I don't believe the over-all company rate could be 7% if this were true, but lets pretend}; in that case, you would still have a four-out-of-five chance of no problem with the repaired unit.
12-30-2016, 11:45 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The most recently available surveys show Pentax with an over-all failure rate of 7%

Despite the comments you hear here, things unrelated to aperture block do fail, and upper-tier cameras like the K-3ii do fail, so aperture-block can fail on cameras like the K-30/50 only so-often. Let's say failure rate for that part were as high as 20% {I don't believe the over-all company rate could be 7% if this were true, but lets pretend}; in that case, you would still have a four-out-of-five chance of no problem with the repaired unit.
The above stats really don't give the data for failures. Such as model, how many per thousand, and year.

I've already read about K1 problems, so yes, any hi-tier level camera can fail due to mass production ,so you expect this. But I don't expect an on-going failure due to engineering or QC from shortly after introduction to current time frame, that's my beef. 20% is way to high for anything.

Automotive industry keeps testing long after models are released for sale, if they find a problem, they notify owners, if a large problem, they issue a recall.

What has Pentax done with the K30/K50? What it looks like to me is that they stopped producing them, came out with the K70 as a replacement. Why aren't they paying for the repairs?

12-30-2016, 12:48 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
The above stats really don't give the data for failures. Such as model, how many per thousand, and year.

I've already read about K1 problems, so yes, any hi-tier level camera can fail due to mass production ,so you expect this. But I don't expect an on-going failure due to engineering or QC from shortly after introduction to current time frame, that's my beef. 20% is way to high for anything.
I never said 20% was the right number; that was a "thought experiment" to show how your "doomed" comment was off-base. You are right - we don't have actual statistics .... we have complaints. At this point we have no grounds for claiming that this part fails any more than any other Pentax part, but we talk about it incessantly because people who have been hit by it complain incessantly. I had two consecutive Canon Rebels with what appeared to be processor issues; because I'm a low volume shooter, it took nearly eight years, but fewer than 5000 shots were required to bring both of them to their knees. If I were a regular at some Canon forum, people might think that every Rebel has that issue. Maybe my K-30 {current shutter count 1291 after 18 months} will have the aperture issue. Several manual lenses, including M42-mount lenses, are regulars in my camera bag, so I would go that route while determining how to fit another low-cost camera into our budget, but considering the fact that I got this one for under $300, in my wife's words "It doesn't owe me anything" - and even if it were to fail this evening {I'm going out with my family to look at a lights display in the town where our daughters were raised}, I would buy it again if I could go back in time and face that decision again.

QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
Automotive industry keeps testing long after models are released for sale, if they find a problem, they notify owners, if a large problem, they issue a recall.

What has Pentax done with the K30/K50? What it looks like to me is that they stopped producing them, came out with the K70 as a replacement. Why aren't they paying for the repairs?
You may be too young to remember before Ralph Nader was famous, but he became famous by writing a book about instability problems with a small Chevrolet {no one seemed to notice that several vehicles by VW had the same type of suspension}; after that book, and the Ford Pinto which exploded if you hit it in back, the U.S. Federal government started riding herd on automobile manufacturers. Back when I was a college student, automobile manufacturers followed exactly the same standards you see in cameras today.

While reading these words to my wife, she pointed out that automobiles are recalled for reasons of safety. The only safety issue with your K-30 would be if you threw it at someone {and managed to hit them} when the aperture mechanism failed.
12-30-2016, 12:58 PM - 1 Like   #21
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Methinks it is time to invoke the boriscleto™ option
12-30-2016, 01:05 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The most recently available surveys show Pentax with an over-all failure rate of 7%
As noted in my previous comment, that number is not based on the current CR survey nor is the number the failure rate. The current survey results are in the snippet below and would include both the K-30/K-50 problems as well as the K-3II recall. According to page where it was posted, differences of less than 4 points are insignificant.

Name:  Capture.JPG
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Steve
12-30-2016, 01:22 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
Yes, not sure on the data
That I believe.

QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
The above stats really don't give the data for failures.
That is true. The stats are for repairs/serious problems and are for interchangeable lens cameras by brand with no breakdown by model or price range. Not included are cameras purchased with a service contract. Brands with inadequate survey reportage (e.g. Leica) are not included in the table. A comparison of the 2015 and 2016 results gives an indication of how fluid the rankings are with Nikon having twice the problems in 2015 as opposed to 2016. I generally reference those numbers in terms of the general state of the industry. Quite simply, the industry standards are uniformly low. FWIW, Pentax has been as low as 3% in the years, I have been keeping track.

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Methinks it is time to invoke the boriscleto™ option
Nah...with any luck the light will blink on that while he has the full sympathy of other users on this site, very few would expect Ricoh/Pentax to replace the camera. Besides, I am curious to see the outcome of the "California Fix" and whether the aperture calibration is true and linear after the repair.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 12-30-2016 at 01:30 PM.
12-30-2016, 01:31 PM   #24
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K30/k50

Believe complaints is the wrong word, you may complain about the weather, but when it costs you money and time, it's not a complaint, but rather a problem. I just happen to post the "complaint" as I recently had the problem, then i got a deluge of complaints from people who have had the same problem, and from some who are just experiencing the problem. One poor guy mentioned that he couldn't afford to have his camera(s) fixed, and bought a used one from a pawn shop. I have compassion for these people as I've been there at one time in my life.

I don't want to get involved with semantics, but rather I've been trying to find out why Pentax hasn't done anything across the board and not case by case. When a problem is related to more than one model, and continues through the years, it's a serious issue..

Some people are interested in how my repair goes before they start theirs, told them I would post the results. Anyway, thanks for your input, Sorry if I opened up an old wound.

Hope you get good shots of the lights.

---------- Post added 12-30-16 at 03:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That I believe.



That is true. The stats are for repairs/serious problems and are for interchangeable lens cameras by brand with no breakdown by model or price range. Not included are cameras purchased with a service contract. Brands with inadequate survey reportage (e.g. Leica) are not included in the table. A comparison of the 2015 and 2016 results gives an indication of how fluid the rankings are with Nikon having twice the problems in 2015 as opposed to 2016. I generally reference those numbers in terms of the general state of the industry. Quite simply, the industry standards are uniformly low. FWIW, Pentax has been as low as 3% in the years, I have been keeping track.



Nah...with any luck the light will blink on that while he has the full sympathy of other users on this site, very few would expect Ricoh/Pentax to replace the camera. Besides, I am curious to see the outcome of the "California Fix" and whether the aperture calibration is true and linear after the repair.


Steve
That's good news Steve. I've owned Pentax cameras since the film days, and this is the first problem I've had so perhaps I'm spoiled. One photographer in my club was the regional sales person for Pentax in NJ and parts of NY. He now owns Canon.

Regardless, I was taken aback by the problems related to the K30/K50 over the years, and it seems I've open up an old wound.

In the future I'll just respond to people who have had a current problem as I may be able to help them with advice on a repair.
12-30-2016, 02:27 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
Regardless, I was taken aback by the problems related to the K30/K50 over the years, and it seems I've open up an old wound.

In the future I'll just respond to people who have had a current problem as I may be able to help them with advice on a repair.
Two thumbs up. Your experience with the California shop will likely be helpful. FWIW, I too have been taken aback at the K-30/K-50 problems and the fact that in the 2 1/2 years those cameras were offered, Pentax appears to have not dealt with what was probably a supplier-based problem (the solenoid in question is a generic part).


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12-30-2016, 03:04 PM   #26
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Ricoh probably treats these failures on a case by case basis because there there are a number of reasons for the failure. As I recall in the long DIY thread over the "Russian Solution" one poster found several faults (such as a burned out motor) and it was difficult if not impossible to determine which cause what. Which is probably why Precision replaces so many components for the repair.

Since the fellow in California says there will be no charge if the defect in unrepairable it would seem he does not have a total solution and has to treat each repair case by case.
12-30-2016, 04:10 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
As I recall in the long DIY thread over the "Russian Solution" one poster found several faults (such as a burned out motor) and it was difficult if not impossible to determine which cause what.
That was my eventual take on the "Russian Solution" thread, though I do believe in at least one case, the burned out motor resulted from one of the fix attempts!! There was also one attempt that ended up with fried field winding on the solenoid.


Steve
12-31-2016, 07:44 AM   #28
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K50 problem, and having fun with the K1

I'm glad that I didn't attempt the repair myself based on the Russian fix. I also realize I'm taking a chance on the CA fix, but I'm hoping that what I learn will help others.

I do a lot of manual macro shooting, and I was going to use the K50 just for that purpose, but It's my wife's camera so reason for mailing it out. After speaking with Mark (owner), i got a warm and fuzzy feeling. If you look at dslrparts, he lists a lot of fixes for cameras as this helps his spare parts business, and he said he will eventually do the same for the K50, but right now it's helping him make a living.

One thing for sure, I will never buy another Pentax, if I had known what I know now about Pentax service and the K30/K50 problem, I would not have bought the K1. But it's an awesome camera and currently, have no regrets. IQ and resolution is outstanding. We all know how our first impression is often the best, when I dumped the first few shots on my computer, I said "wow". The image was exactly like I saw it when I took the shots. I have yet to do any post processing on the K1 shots and I use the Av mode mostly.

I have the D FA 28 - 105mm FF lens, the auto focusing is so fast and precise, that I don't even bother with manual focus touch-up. I will also shop around for a prime wide angle lens around 16 - 18 mm. I have yet to use the pixel shift mode as this time of year, scenes are dull, but I look forward to using this mode. I have a pro friend (has written several articles in Popular Photography, name is Chris Tennet), and he's into astro photography. He has a keen interest in the K1's ability for astro tracing and I will bring it in at our next meeting for him to look it over. He's going to help us out with astro photography.

So my horizon has broaden thanks to the K1.

Paolo

---------- Post added 12-31-16 at 09:53 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Ricoh probably treats these failures on a case by case basis because there there are a number of reasons for the failure. As I recall in the long DIY thread over the "Russian Solution" one poster found several faults (such as a burned out motor) and it was difficult if not impossible to determine which cause what. Which is probably why Precision replaces so many components for the repair.

Since the fellow in California says there will be no charge if the defect in unrepairable it would seem he does not have a total solution and has to treat each repair case by case.
Reason we wants to talk with you first, as he won't take the K30/K50 if he feels he can't repair it. I feel what he does is purely mechanical, he doesn't replace parts, and this is the only problem he works on. Again, I'll find out, and will let you all know.

Last edited by paolo11; 12-31-2016 at 07:56 AM. Reason: misspelling
12-31-2016, 11:54 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
if I had known what I know now about Pentax service and the K30/K50 problem, I would not have bought the K1
That is reasonable, though I would suggest that things are no better with other brands. I have a friend locally who shoots Canon. While she has a 5DIII now, she also shoots with a 7D. That camera went in for warranty shutter replacement three times in the first year of ownership and one time out of warranty. Each of those warranty repairs required about a month to accomplish. The fourth replacement by C.R.I.S. of Arizona required parts from Japan and took about three months. The state of reliability/post-purchase service and repair for photographic goods is poor and is not much better for other electronics items. You should see the Consumer Reports reliability tables for personal computers and cell phones.


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12-31-2016, 01:47 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by paolo11 Quote
I've told others to wait till I get my K50 back from repair, mailing it out today.
Paolo
Mark repaired my K30 about a month or 2 ago. Very happy with the results. I do have a new problem . It fell off the tripod this morning and now everything is over exposed . Everything else seems to work properly Landed on the lens. an old K55/1.8. it survived as well. I now have to use -3 EV. I am happy enough with the repair ,that for my new issue I sent him an E-mail to see if he thought there might be something he could do.
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