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03-10-2019, 03:00 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yes, they say they took these from genuine Pentax cameras.
Sounds (hopefully!) reasonable because that is from where (seller's name was "portmano" - as is that in the currently referrence listing) I bought the "white" solenoid that got fitted to the K-30 by Asahi Photo in Brentford (London) and the latter did not say that it was the "wrong" one .

03-10-2019, 04:58 PM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by Navmaxlp Quote
yes, i was looking at those yesterday, just thought i could find another source, must be way cheaper before pentax puts them in cameras.
03-10-2019, 05:24 PM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by ignath Quote
yes, i was looking at those yesterday, just thought i could find another source, must be way cheaper before pentax puts them in cameras.
There is no reason to believe that anyone still manufactures a solenoid with the exact characteristics of the 'white' solenoid, which is the reason for a "treasure hunt" amongst old Pentax cameras and similar electronics.
03-11-2019, 04:46 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by ignath Quote
yes, i was looking at those yesterday, just thought i could find another source, must be way cheaper before pentax puts them in cameras.
For a time in "electric city" Akihabara / Tokyo there were NOS (New Old Stock) solenoids available for 3800 YEN. Thats about 35 US$. But no longer, sold out.
What once most likely was way cheaper is no longer produced so one best respects and acknowledges the fact, that somebody buys broken K-x or similar, disassembles those, builts out one or two solenoids depending which DSLR it is (because at least here in Europe most K100D and K200D up to the K-x and K-r have only one white solenoid, the other one in the flash compartment is green as well and thus useless!) and tests it.
So money and work involved. Plus no risk for the buyer. I think it is reasonable.

---------- Post added 03-11-19 at 04:53 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Navmaxlp Quote
Rather than using this method , I'm going to assume a high voltage discharging rod will work. Would that be safe to assume?
Would you use boxing cloves for sewing?


Last edited by photogem; 03-11-2019 at 04:56 AM.
03-11-2019, 06:02 AM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
Would you use boxing cloves for sewing?
LOL I might. It depends on how much the sewing angered me. I'm known to get irrationally angry at sewing. Joking aside, i ended up not discharging the capacitor at all. It was out of the way and careful handling of the camera while installing the solenoid was enough for me. I didn't even have to punch it. I let it off with a warning.
03-11-2019, 11:44 AM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by Navmaxlp Quote
LOL I might. It depends on how much the sewing angered me. I'm known to get irrationally angry at sewing. Joking aside, i ended up not discharging the capacitor at all. It was out of the way and careful handling of the camera while installing the solenoid was enough for me. I didn't even have to punch it. I let it off with a warning.
I'm glad this worked out for you. One user managed to ruin his camera by accidentally apparently discharging stored charge through the processor
03-11-2019, 12:07 PM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm glad this worked out for you. One user managed to ruin his camera by accidentally apparently discharging stored charge through the processor
Wow, I'm a little surprised by this. The capacitor seemed well guarded to me. Both ends were covered to a good degree. I don't know that I could have gotten a discharge probe in there if I tried.

I'm thinking there may be some differences between the K-30 and K-50. Perhaps in the newer bodies, the capacitor is more exposed than in my K-30.
03-11-2019, 05:17 PM   #248
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I didn't feel a need to discharge the flash capacitor in K-30 as I didn't need to remove top cover for solenoid replacement. It seems someone did much worse because too much effort instead if he simply leave it charged...

03-12-2019, 12:10 AM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by Navmaxlp Quote
Wow, I'm a little surprised by this. The capacitor seemed well guarded to me. Both ends were covered to a good degree. I don't know that I could have gotten a discharge probe in there if I tried.

I'm thinking there may be some differences between the K-30 and K-50. Perhaps in the newer bodies, the capacitor is more exposed than in my K-30.
No, there are no differences between the flash capacitor of the K-30, K-50 nor K-500: All have it exactly on the same position.

Yes, the two pins are well protected, this is not where one would receive a shock.

There are exposed contact points right on the open flash-circuit board, if you touch here you get a very unpleasant shock. See attached photo:



Have you ever looked at the size of a discharge probe? You wouldn't want even to touch any contact (soldering-) points on the circuit board.

I was silly enough when repairing a few K-30's and K-50's to think I could do it without uncharging the capacitor. But I was mistaken. I got shocks until I realized the culprit isn't the flash-condensor itself. The condensor just delivers the high voltage with enough amperes to give you enough of a shock that you might damage your camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by RayeR Quote
I didn't feel a need to discharge the flash capacitor in K-30 as I didn't need to remove top cover for solenoid replacement. It seems someone did much worse because too much effort instead if he simply leave it charged...
With all due respect but this is one of those advises one should not give!
Why lead people into unnecessary danger?
Why lead people to doing something the wrong way and thus possibly doing final damage to their cameras?


1. it is not about how you feel about this capacitor. It is about safety and doing it right!

- Either leave the camera a few days without battery so the flash condenser discharges itself

or

- discharge the flash condenser!



(Or you wear gloves-- best boxing gloves so you don't get a shock and then good luck with precision soldering!

2. and again, with all due respect:

It is the most silly thing not to "lift" the top cover! It is leading others to possible damage!

If not lifted:

a) much worse access to the solenoid for secure soldering
b) the top cover holds the front-cover in position, one has "to wiggle and fiddle" to get it out and will have it pretty difficult to get the AF/C/M switch into the correct position. A few have reported about their difficulties of aligning the inner and outer part of that switch! The assembled their body and afterwards found out the AF/C/M
switch didn't function anymore, the AF would not work!
Because the rod of the screwdrivemotor was jammed! If one then tries and tries because one hasn't understood why the AF doesn't work one possibly could damage
the AF Motor! Too bad then.

So again:

- The top-part slides over the front part

- It holds it in position

- It seals it (K30/50/S2 are WR!)


- it carries the external part of the AF/C/M switch which has to align with the inner part which sits on the main frame and can only align with ease if the front part can be assembled straight, i.e. parallel to the main frame:


If the top-part is not lifted, this is not possible!


Then you have to push and pull the front part under it with an angle!


It is even more so with the K-S1 and K-S2:
With those you can bend a fragile metal part on the inside of the AF/M switch which has to align with a very tiny tolerance into the inner part of this switch. If bent: Very difficult to bend it back into position! It just should not happen but your advice will almost guarantee that it will bend
Because with both, the K-S1 and the K-S2 the front part is much stronger fixed (almost clamped) to the top-part, it takes much more force to get it out anyway. So not to lift the top-part is almost a guarantee that you will damage more than you repair. And yes, the flash concensor sits on the other side and yet you can recieve as much a shock if you touch it the wrong way.

I mean look at your own repair! Something went very wrong!

You applied the sanding method.

Afterwards for whatever reason you had the mirror flop issue, i.e. your K-30 was beyond repair.

Photo 1 shows the flash-condenser K30 (K50 and K500 are identical):
Red marks on the + Plus contact of the flash-condenser itself as well as on that spot where the blue cable is soldered to: +220Volts DC !!!

Photo 2 shows the rims of the front-part. Those rims have to slide under the top-part (that's why it must be lifted up) and the back part with the LCD.

If the top-part stays in place there are two problems:

- The left wire on the solenoid is too close to top part, difficult to unsolder the wire.
- But worse: the top-part cannot be assembled parallel to the inner body but with an angle. The AF-C-M switch will not go smoothly into its counterpart
Further photos will show this in detail.



Attached Images
   

Last edited by photogem; 03-18-2019 at 03:31 AM.
03-13-2019, 09:23 PM   #250
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Yes, discharging a HV cap is generaly a good idea (I was kicked by some flash cap of a compact camera years ago so I know but as you read before it can go wrong when done improperly...
I don't remember exactly, maybe I just released a bit some screw of top cover to be able to remove front cover but didn't need to fully remove it and didn't need any extra force or wiggle. I have a fine solder tip so no problem with space when soldering. Let users decides if they could work more comfortable with top cover removed...
Yes sure, AF/MF switch needs proper aligment in all cases.

I did sanding method before and found that I sanded it too much so holding force was too weak that in some case the anchor didn't return back to sticked position. I ended up buying a new cheap (inferior) green solenoid that moves anchor correctly. I no longer get underexposed images but mirror movement is still some way random and I cannot figure out why. I think something else broke/weared out and even if I use white solenoid it will not fix this issue. The cam had done over 35000 shots and now keeping it just as a backup body (and maybe for some firmware hack fun where don't care much if gets bricked).
03-14-2019, 02:25 AM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by RayeR Quote
Let users decide if they could work more comfortable with the top cover removed...
I don't think so.

The user doing it the first time needs an as precise as possible guidance for zero damage to his Pentax.

If the Top-Cover is lifted (but not removed!) there are only advantages, zero disadvantages.

With the top-cover not lifted there are one disadvantages plus danger for damage.

The user doing it for the first time with wrong guidance will have the danger of exactly the result you got:
Damaged K30 (or similar)!

So why mislead?

As you said, you can't remember. Then this is vague advice!

And led to damage in your case because you did it wrong!
03-14-2019, 05:56 AM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
And led to damage in your case because you did it wrong!
How can you claim this? You neither I knows what happened inside the mirror box. I didn't applied any excessive force/violence to front cover when removing it. Even if so it shouldn't damage gears deeply inside mirror box but may cause e.g. problem wit AF switch but it is working fine, I have aligned it properly.
My problem may be caused by using the camera for cca a half year with manually blocked lens aperture level by a piece of paper (a hotfix for constant ~f/8 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/58-troubleshooting-beginner-...-objektivu.jpg) while still operating weared out solenoid...

Last edited by RayeR; 03-14-2019 at 06:01 AM.
03-14-2019, 10:43 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by RayeR Quote
How can you claim this? You neither I knows what happened inside the mirror box. I didn't applied any excessive force/violence to front cover when removing it. Even if so it shouldn't damage gears deeply inside mirror box but may cause e.g. problem wit AF switch but it is working fine, I have aligned it properly.
My problem may be caused by using the camera for cca a half year with manually blocked lens aperture level by a piece of paper (a hotfix for constant ~f/8 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/58-troubleshooting-beginner-...-objektivu.jpg) while still operating weared out solenoid...
It wasn't me who claimed this but it was you.

You started this thread and wrote, that it happened after you applied the grinding/sanding method.

There was zero mentioning of this (not so good) modification (?) of your lens! One cannot know about it as long as you don't mention it.
You did write about it but in this completly different thread:

K30 random underexposure problem - Page 9 - PentaxForums.com

The way you describe your K30 did not develop the mirror-flop problem after you "modified" your lens (which I would not recommend to do at all)


The mirror-flop came after you changed the solenoid.

Look, this is not and never should be any personal competition.
It is just that one must really know what one is doing with all those repairs and modifications.

Last edited by photogem; 03-15-2019 at 11:49 PM.
03-15-2019, 09:59 AM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by RayeR Quote
How can you claim this? You neither I knows what happened inside the mirror box. I didn't applied any excessive force/violence to front cover when removing it. Even if so it shouldn't damage gears deeply inside mirror box but may cause e.g. problem wit AF switch but it is working fine, I have aligned it properly.
My problem may be caused by using the camera for cca a half year with manually blocked lens aperture level by a piece of paper (a hotfix for constant ~f/8 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/58-troubleshooting-beginner-...-objektivu.jpg) while still operating weared out solenoid...
If this "fix" may have caused issues, have you gone back to the place where you originally posted this photo to warn people?
03-15-2019, 11:47 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If this "fix" may have caused issues, have you gone back to the place where you originally posted this photo to warn people?
well observed... he should indeed correct his errors to keep others from following such critical advice.
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