[marcusBMG]

Thanks for the clarification photogem.
Update can't find any listings for a 414, 612 it will have to be..

[billwe]

Yes, the MS612T does fit, it is slightly larger than the MS414 which is the original and it is a lithium rechareable battery.

This one:

is a supercap and DOES NOT WORK!

I have tried it, the only thing that happens is that the D-LI109 battery drains very quickly!

I then installed the MS612 and all was fine

I don't remember if I verified the part number of what was originally in my K-30. But I can verify that I replaced it with the Digi-Key 604-1078-ND which is listed as a supercap. I can also verify that the camera has been working fine for over 6 months without losing date/time and there is no abnormal battery drainage.

All that I can suggest is that anyone replacing this part, try to find a part number on the original and replace it with the same item.

[photogem]

Well, here photos of the original backup battery in a Pentax K-50.
Same one I found in the K-30.

Should I ever come across the ELNA supercap, then of course I will mention this but until now it was always the Seiko 414.

I know that sometimes parts can differ, such as that in the European Union the solenoids of K100/200D and Kx/Km/Kr were already green made in China versions but only in the flash circuity, not for the aperture!

And as well almost all SLR MZ/XZ series solenoids I came across had different values to the DSLR solenoids.

So it might well be so with the backup batterie. So best to check and then buy accordingly.

[marcusBMG]

What is the diameter of that photogem?
According to the specs I pulled up here it's 4.8mm...

MS414GE | Seiko Instruments Inc. Micro Energy Division

So I guess the 612 I have bought is slightly larger, but in other respects the spec is the same, so if it fits it should work...

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Last edited by marcusBMG; 05-20-2020 at 09:58 AM.

[photogem]

I'm afraid the K-50 is assembled again.

But as you can see the MS414 is pretty small.
But I know that the MS621 (not 612!) is fine!

[tvrrproto48]

My K-30 developed a similar problem a few months ago. A fully charged main battery is in it but when I switch it off and back on I have to set everything like it was a new camera before I can even take a photo. Doesn't the main battery keep the memory and only the onboard battery saves it when the main is pulled out?

[photogem]

My K-30 developed a similar problem a few months ago. A fully charged main battery is in it but when I switch it off and back on I have to set everything like it was a new camera before I can even take a photo. Doesn't the main battery keep the memory and only the onboard battery saves it when the main is pulled out?

My guess (only): Memory battery completly dead! Zero voltage.

[tvrrproto48]

But if the main battery is NOT removed wouldn't that keep the memory powered?

[photogem]

But if the main battery is NOT removed wouldn't that keep the memory powered?

Yes, as far as I know that should keep it until the main battery is removed.
I never came across that problem.
Could well be another fault.

[tvrrproto48]

My "New" K-5 showed up and I decided to give the battery in it a full charge and decided to charge the battery in the K10D and K-30. That's when I found the problem.


Years ago I had picked up the Pentax AA battery holder for the K-30. Some time late last year I had drained the rechargeable battery and put the holder in with a fresh set of batteries and than forgot about it. Because of covid I haven't taken many photos this year and the battery indicator showed a full bar so I never thought anything about it. Well I charged the Li battery and put it in and the problem went away. I can now turn it off and back on and everything is saved.


That's when I got looking at the AA pack and noticed there is only two tabs on it as opposed to three on the Li. My guess is the third tab on the Li is a lower voltage output to maintain the memory and keep the on board battery charged. Wish Pentax had put that in the instructions with the battery holder or maybe they did and "old-timers" over took me.

Cheers everyone.
Jeff

[photogem]

My "New" K-5 showed up and I decided to give the battery in it a full charge and decided to charge the battery in the K10D and K-30

The K5 D-LI90 battery does not fit into the K10D nor the K30
You cannot charge any of those in any camera/body but only with the appropriate charger.
All have different chargers.
It is possible though to manipulate the chargers a bit to charge the K30 D-LI109 battery in the K5 D-BC90 charger
and it is possible with some mods/position to charge the D-LI90 K5 battery in the charger of the K30=D-BC109.

That's when I found the problem

Not if you tried to charge the K5 battery in a K10D or K30 because it is not possible.

Years ago I had picked up the Pentax AA battery holder for the K-30. Some time late last year I had drained the rechargeable battery and put the holder in with a fresh set of batteries and than forgot about it. Because of covid I haven't taken many photos this year and the battery indicator showed a full bar so I never thought anything about it. Well I charged the Li battery and put it in and the problem went away. I can now turn it off and back on and everything is saved.

I guess you charged the D-LI109 (K30) battery in the K5 D-BC90 charger?

That does work if one holds it in a particular way so the contacts of the battery have the contact to the charger contacts
and the green light goes on.

This could mean that your D-BC109 (K30) charger did not recognice it or had problems with it.

That's when I got looking at the AA pack and noticed there is only two tabs on it as opposed to three on the Li. My guess is the third tab on the Li is a lower voltage output to maintain the memory and keep the on board battery charged. Wish Pentax had put that in the instructions with the battery holder or maybe they did and "old-timers" over took me.

No, that is completly wrong!
The AA pack has 2 contacts because the camera notices AA batteries instead of Li-Ion
The mid contact of the D-LI109 is a sensor for temperatur! Protection

The D-LI109 and the new D-LI90P have both 4 contacts!
The 4.th contact again is not for sending 3V to the memory battery which is done onboard and is regulated on the Mainboard of the camera!

The 4.th contact was required in Japan for better monitoring the battery, it is law only in Japan.

The K10/20D batteries had only 2 contacts: + -
K7/K5/K3/K-01= D-LI90 have 3 contacts: + - and T (T for Temperatur)
D-LI90P: + - T + D (Digital Monitoring)

Cheap no-name chargers have only 2 contacts! They don't check for temperature overload and usually are quickchargers.
The way they also keep the charge is not that great at all:
They often use trickle charging (pulse) which is bad for Li-Ion!
See:
https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries


The AA Adapter does not need T for Temperature

Whatever happened when you charged the D-LI109 making it work, great!

Now check if it charges the memory battery as well!

[tvrrproto48]

I know all three batteries use different chargers. I charged all three at the same time by plugging the Pentax charges in around the house. The third contact must do something to the onboard memory because if I put the AA pack in with brand new batteries the date and time has to be reset EVERY time the camera is turned on. With the Li battery in the body I only loose time settings when the battery is removed and reinstalled.

It does not appear to recharge the on memory battery or at lest 12hr was not long enough.

[photogem]

The third contact must do something to the onboard memory because if I put the AA pack in with brand new batteries the date and time has to be reset EVERY time the camera is turned on.

First: Can you see that you didn't charge the battery with the camera as your wrote:

My "New" K-5 showed up and I decided to give the battery in it a full charge and decided to charge the battery in the K10D and K-30.

??
Second: NO!
THE THIRD CONTACT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ONBOARD MEMORY! Nor contact #4!

For this you simply need a voltmeter and measure!
Which voltage can you measure on the 3.rd and the 4th contact?

ZERO VOLTS!


So better to use the world "must" only if it based on something factual, but not guessing:

D-LI109:
- to + = 8,35 V
- to T = 0V
- to D = 0V

D-LI90:
- to + = 7,2V
- to T = 0V

That simple it is.

With the Li battery in the body I only loose time settings when the battery is removed and reinstalled.

Yes, thats how it is, but its not a Li but a Li-ion battery.
Precision! Because there are Lithium batteries as well!
The memory battery is a Lithium, the main a Li-Ion!


This leads to misunderstanding as with the first issue, when you wrote about charging the battery in the K10D..... which is not possible!

Nor could you charge the D-LI90 in your K30

Basically it means something is wrong with your AA-Adapter or..... with the setting:

Because if you switch different batteries too quickly your camera won't notice that it now has a new type of batteries!

You need to change the setting in your menu or wait 1 min:
Read here:
Battery type AA/NiMH/Eneloop in K-x, K-r, K30 K50, K500 as well as *ist/K100/200/2000 - PentaxForums.com

Its most likely you didn't wait that 1 min and your K30 thought it has the Li-Ion inside.

[tvrrproto48]

I knew sooner or later I would find the resident expert.

[Philber]

Hello,
only to let you (k30 aficionados maybe, I still am in some way) know one useful backup battery substitute for Seiko ms414 is indeed the ms621 (fe), (same 3v, higher than 414 capacity, maybe it is the same as the "612" reported here, I don't know if that is just a typo, or an actual different model), easy to find on Amazon, also.
I just wanted to point out one should be aware that, once installed in place of the old 414, the replacement 621 battery thickness exceeds the 414's, to the point it comes in contact with the inner metal plate-part of the back cover (on the right of the LCD apparatus), when put back in place.

So it is mandatory to isolate (the battery itself, or the camera metal shade, or both) with some insulating tape or similar purpose material, prior to reassembling. Not doing it will (maybe because of short circuiting the backup battery itself) lead to a rapid discharge of the main battery through it. In that case, one would notice some sensible heat dissipation (by the mentioned inner metal plate structure) on the back camera cover, just under the back function wheel (and on the upper right of the LCD panel), in correspondence of the ms621 inner position.

Unfortunately I don't have a true clarifying pic on the very subject, these following ones are the only ones where the said parts are in some way visible, sorry :]

Greetings to all