K30 Liveview Vs Viewfinder Differences

cmichal · 03-31-2019, 08:20 PM

Hello all, I'm having a problem when shooting with my k30 in Auto mode. When shooting through the viewfinder it is almost always overexposed. When I take the same picture in Liveview the exposure is correct. See example pictures attached. I have the same problem with multiple different lenses. If I set the camera to manual mode and select the settings the pictures taken with liveview and viewfinder are exactly the same. It's like the camera comes to different conclusions on on proper exposure settings when it's in liveview vs viewfinder. I don't use automode much but sometimes my wife uses the camera to take pictures at events and she just wants to use Auto mode with the 50mm or 35mm lenses and have good shots, not over exposed shots. At this point she just hates the camera

Anyone had this issue before? Sorry if it's a totally stupid questions but I'm fairly new to the Pentax K30.

Thanks for your help.

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

View Picture EXIF

Ajax156 · 03-31-2019, 09:26 PM

When the camera is using the viewfinder it is using phase detect for autofocus whereas in live view it is using contrast detect. I assume the exposure is also calculated from the same contrast/phase detection systems.

As to why they would give different results though, I'm not sure.

Cheers

cmichal · 03-31-2019, 09:40 PM

When I turn the camera on manual focus and repeat the test it's the exact same problem. Over exposure when using the viewfinder perfect exposure with the LCD. It also has the same problem in all the scene modes.

pschlute · 03-31-2019, 09:45 PM

The viewfinder uses a meter up in the prism, whereas LV uses a reading direct from the sensor. So there can be a slight discrepancy, but this shows too much.

First i would suggest you use the same mode for some test shots. Your first example shows Program (auto) but the second picture shows Portrait mode ? Your second example shows auto versus Landscape.

Try using other modes such as Av or Tv and see what you get.

The metering is totally separate from the AF mode. But check your camera settings to make sure you have not enabled "metering linked to AF point"

cmichal · 03-31-2019, 10:18 PM

Same problem in Av mode, see attached. I checked all the settings for metering being linked to AF point and they're all disabled. When I enabled "Link Exposure and Focus Point" that actually seemed to help a little bit

**tduell** · 04-01-2019, 02:50 PM

Is it possible that there is dust or similar contamination on the meter which is causing it to think the image is dark hence increase exposure?
I'm not sure if that meter is exposed when the mirror is up, if it is then a mirror-up clean with a rocket blower might be something to try.

Cheers,
Terry

cmichal · 04-01-2019, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by tduell

Is it possible that there is dust or similar contamination on the meter which is causing it to think the image is dark hence increase exposure?
I'm not sure if that meter is exposed when the mirror is up, if it is then a mirror-up clean with a rocket blower might be something to try.

Cheers,
Terry

Thanks, I'm going to take it into the shop this evening and see what they think. I'll mention the possible meter contamination. I took a look in there with the sensor in cleaning mode but I don't see anything out of the ordinary. I also have very little idea of what I'm looking at

reh321 · 04-01-2019, 04:13 PM

I did notice that the ISO changed from 2000 in the first photo to 3200 in the second one.
Must have set ISO to "auto".
Understanding will be easier if ISO is set to one value, which is used all the time, but that is not cause of the problem - just complicates thinking about the problem.

cmichal · 04-01-2019, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by reh321

I did notice that the ISO changed from 2000 in the first photo to 3200 in the second one.
Must have set ISO to "auto".
Understanding will be easier if ISO is set to one value, which is used all the time, but that is not cause of the problem - just complicates thinking about the problem.

I locked in the ISO at 200 and repeated the test in Av mode @ F2.8. Still the same results, taken through the viewfinder and it's blown out and through the Liveview mode it's perfect. So frustrating... Hopefully the camera shop can sort it out.

reh321 · 04-01-2019, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by cmichal

I locked in the ISO at 200 and repeated the test in Av mode @ F2.8. Still the same results, taken through the viewfinder and it's blown out and through the Liveview mode it's perfect. So frustrating... Hopefully the camera shop can sort it out.

Do tell us what you find out - this type of problem has been reported on other occasions, and as far as I know, it has never been resolved {it certainly looks like an issue with metering in the prism housing}.

pschlute · 04-01-2019, 11:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by tduell

Is it possible that there is dust or similar contamination on the meter which is causing it to think the image is dark hence increase exposure?
I'm not sure if that meter is exposed when the mirror is up, if it is then a mirror-up clean with a rocket blower might be something to try.

Cheers,
Terry

The meter is up in the pentaprism, the other side of the focussing screen. I am tending to think there is a problem with the meter itself.

cmichal · 04-02-2019, 08:32 AM

The camera store said nobody could fix it except Pentax / Precision because the meter is buried quite far inside. It's out of warranty so to pay to send in for repair isn't worth it for me compared to the price of a new camera. Probably just end up going with the K-70.

reh321 · 04-02-2019, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by cmichal

The camera store said nobody could fix it except Pentax / Precision because the meter is buried quite far inside. It's out of warranty so to pay to send in for repair isn't worth it for me compared to the price of a new camera. Probably just end up going with the K-70.

So they are fairly sure the meter is bad?

That is unfortunate.

stevebrot · 04-02-2019, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by cmichal

Same problem in Av mode, see attached. I checked all the settings for metering being linked to AF point and they're all disabled. When I enabled "Link Exposure and Focus Point" that actually seemed to help a little bit

This example only shows about 1.5 stop difference (Top: LV 3.7 vs. Bottom: LV 1.6) rather than the huge difference in the original post. Part is the matter of having scene mode active, but still, there is something subtle going on here in regards to metering.

To avoid confusion with example photos you might give a repair tech, I would turn off face detection in Live View and use fixed rather than auto ISO.

Steve

cmichal · 04-02-2019, 02:27 PM

We did some testing in Av mode with the ISO fixed at 200. Still the same problem. The problem shows less of a variance in stops between the two shooting methods in darker situations. With outdoor sunny situations the shots through the viewfinder are extremely blown out and the live view shots are perfectly exposed. I didn't notice that selecting full Auto mode will basically switch you into a scene mode until I uploaded the initial shots otherwise I would have used Av mode.

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03-31-2019, 09:26 PM	#2
Ajax156 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 45	When the camera is using the viewfinder it is using phase detect for autofocus whereas in live view it is using contrast detect. I assume the exposure is also calculated from the same contrast/phase detection systems. As to why they would give different results though, I'm not sure. Cheers

03-31-2019, 09:40 PM	#3
cmichal New Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 7 Original Poster	When I turn the camera on manual focus and repeat the test it's the exact same problem. Over exposure when using the viewfinder perfect exposure with the LCD. It also has the same problem in all the scene modes.

03-31-2019, 09:45 PM	#4
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	The viewfinder uses a meter up in the prism, whereas LV uses a reading direct from the sensor. So there can be a slight discrepancy, but this shows too much. First i would suggest you use the same mode for some test shots. Your first example shows Program (auto) but the second picture shows Portrait mode ? Your second example shows auto versus Landscape. Try using other modes such as Av or Tv and see what you get. The metering is totally separate from the AF mode. But check your camera settings to make sure you have not enabled "metering linked to AF point"

04-01-2019, 02:50 PM	#6
tduell Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,514	Is it possible that there is dust or similar contamination on the meter which is causing it to think the image is dark hence increase exposure? I'm not sure if that meter is exposed when the mirror is up, if it is then a mirror-up clean with a rocket blower might be something to try. Cheers, Terry

04-01-2019, 03:36 PM	#7
cmichal New Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 7 Original Poster	Originally posted by tduell Is it possible that there is dust or similar contamination on the meter which is causing it to think the image is dark hence increase exposure? I'm not sure if that meter is exposed when the mirror is up, if it is then a mirror-up clean with a rocket blower might be something to try. Cheers, Terry Thanks, I'm going to take it into the shop this evening and see what they think. I'll mention the possible meter contamination. I took a look in there with the sensor in cleaning mode but I don't see anything out of the ordinary. I also have very little idea of what I'm looking at

04-01-2019, 04:13 PM	#8
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	I did notice that the ISO changed from 2000 in the first photo to 3200 in the second one. Must have set ISO to "auto". Understanding will be easier if ISO is set to one value, which is used all the time, but that is not cause of the problem - just complicates thinking about the problem.

04-01-2019, 04:35 PM	#9
cmichal New Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 7 Original Poster	Originally posted by reh321 I did notice that the ISO changed from 2000 in the first photo to 3200 in the second one. Must have set ISO to "auto". Understanding will be easier if ISO is set to one value, which is used all the time, but that is not cause of the problem - just complicates thinking about the problem. I locked in the ISO at 200 and repeated the test in Av mode @ F2.8. Still the same results, taken through the viewfinder and it's blown out and through the Liveview mode it's perfect. So frustrating... Hopefully the camera shop can sort it out.

04-01-2019, 06:46 PM	#10
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by cmichal I locked in the ISO at 200 and repeated the test in Av mode @ F2.8. Still the same results, taken through the viewfinder and it's blown out and through the Liveview mode it's perfect. So frustrating... Hopefully the camera shop can sort it out. Do tell us what you find out - this type of problem has been reported on other occasions, and as far as I know, it has never been resolved {it certainly looks like an issue with metering in the prism housing}.

04-01-2019, 11:16 PM - 1 Like	#11
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	Originally posted by tduell Is it possible that there is dust or similar contamination on the meter which is causing it to think the image is dark hence increase exposure? I'm not sure if that meter is exposed when the mirror is up, if it is then a mirror-up clean with a rocket blower might be something to try. Cheers, Terry The meter is up in the pentaprism, the other side of the focussing screen. I am tending to think there is a problem with the meter itself.

04-02-2019, 08:32 AM	#12
cmichal New Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 7 Original Poster	The camera store said nobody could fix it except Pentax / Precision because the meter is buried quite far inside. It's out of warranty so to pay to send in for repair isn't worth it for me compared to the price of a new camera. Probably just end up going with the K-70.

04-02-2019, 09:02 AM	#13
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by cmichal The camera store said nobody could fix it except Pentax / Precision because the meter is buried quite far inside. It's out of warranty so to pay to send in for repair isn't worth it for me compared to the price of a new camera. Probably just end up going with the K-70. So they are fairly sure the meter is bad? That is unfortunate.

04-02-2019, 11:09 AM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by cmichal Same problem in Av mode, see attached. I checked all the settings for metering being linked to AF point and they're all disabled. When I enabled "Link Exposure and Focus Point" that actually seemed to help a little bit This example only shows about 1.5 stop difference (Top: LV 3.7 vs. Bottom: LV 1.6) rather than the huge difference in the original post. Part is the matter of having scene mode active, but still, there is something subtle going on here in regards to metering. To avoid confusion with example photos you might give a repair tech, I would turn off face detection in Live View and use fixed rather than auto ISO. Steve

04-02-2019, 02:27 PM	#15
cmichal New Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 7 Original Poster	We did some testing in Av mode with the ISO fixed at 200. Still the same problem. The problem shows less of a variance in stops between the two shooting methods in darker situations. With outdoor sunny situations the shots through the viewfinder are extremely blown out and the live view shots are perfectly exposed. I didn't notice that selecting full Auto mode will basically switch you into a scene mode until I uploaded the initial shots otherwise I would have used Av mode.