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01-27-2021, 11:40 AM - 1 Like   #16
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Hi,

I've found this thread about mirror problems on K-50 (which is a twin of K-30) : Mirror stuck problem in new Pentax K-50 - PentaxForums.com

To sum up this thread:

- Mirror misbehave or stuck could indeed happen on K-50
- Could be related to battery - using AA adapter solved the problem for some people
- Could be related to diaphragm block (someone mentioned Ricoh replaced the diaphragm block under warranty to fix mirror up problem)
- Could be related to DA-L lenses with plastic mount - people mentioned using metal mount lens to fix mirror issue


Since the solenoid might have been sanded, I'm afraid your K-30 may be toasted

01-27-2021, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #17
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Thank you for suggestions,

I think that hope dies last

It's sure there's more to do besides this solenoid. The one from the MZ50 is inserted temporary. And you can see that something is happening.
I was sitting on the forum now, looking for "stuck shutter/mirror" topics but I didn't find anything specific. Usually the topic ends with conclusion "send it to pentax" or "throw it away"

In the meantime, I was digging the shutter and mirror with a toothpick
After a while I've coneccted the battery and turn on the camara and I jumped up as the shutter and mirror fired

Camera starts to shot pictures, LV is working, well, in general all seemed to work.
But with mirror flopping. bether this than nothing
After some testing shutter is stuck again, but the mirror still works.

One thing is for sure, this camera isn't completely dead yet
---------------
edit,
I was trying to attach a video, but it is in mp4 and the forum will not accept it

Last edited by pentarad; 01-27-2021 at 02:10 PM. Reason: missing attachment
01-27-2021, 02:19 PM   #18
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I thought the solenoids from the MZ were not compatible - different voltages.
01-27-2021, 02:51 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
I thought the solenoids from the MZ were not compatible - different voltages.


in this <topic>, a colleague says that they are "almost" good. they differ slightly in shape and may have reverse polarity. I checked before mounting and this one is ok.

but any way, shutter is stuck in a different position, completly closed, previously it was almost, the pin from the hinge was visible. miror doesnet go up when I enable "sensor cleaning"
yes, i know it is a mes.
I noticed that flash is not working. I don't know if it's related.

01-27-2021, 10:42 PM - 1 Like   #20
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just to be sure, chech the wires and colors, as well as soldering quality.
I have problems with K-x, something similar speaking about mirror failure, shutter does not fire as well, but this behavior accured after some experimental changes in sensor, changes that did not include any soldering on the sensor plate. Camera makes just 1 mirror action, shutter does not fire at all and then camera freezes with shake reduction always in action. But removing the battery solves this problem until next picture
I replaced whole sensor block with donor one and camera worked OK until I made same experiment with sensor.
As I know K-x has some problem with circuitry or power management, so these problems could be not related to K-30.
Here is K-30's mother plate. Before unsoldering.
01-28-2021, 03:55 AM   #21
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Thank you,
I didn't open the back cover yet.
I will check all the cables and soldering points again.
but, it looks that there is something jammed in the aperture mechanism ( wheels, springs etc)
current status:

- mirror is operating ( viev finder works), except it does not go up when "sensor cleaning" enabled
- shutter stuck, completly closed
- aprerature wheels locked, to move it I have to apply much more force ( feel that some spring is blocking it, it returns to its previous place after removing the pressure)
- solenoid is not moving at all, position of its levar is not affecting the wheels ( it schould be locking when it is down, after applayng the current)
- camara shoots black pictures
- lens is working, focuses, etc. You can see it through the viewfinder
- all the buttons and wheels are working propperly, Ive testedd on debuging tool.
- the flash does not fire, even in forced mode
01-28-2021, 06:43 AM - 2 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
..... but, it looks that there is something jammed in the aperture mechanism ( wheels, springs etc)
Almost certainly


QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
.current status:
- mirror is operating ( viev finder works), except it does not go up when "sensor cleaning" enabled
That means that the mirror-up mechanism was jammed and it got released.
Good, but to bad:


QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
.
- shutter stuck, completly closed
- aperture wheels locked, to move it I have to apply much more force ( feel that some spring is blocking it, it returns to its previous place after removing the pressure)
These are interrelated. The shutter is opened and closed with 2 other solenoids, both sitting deep inside the camera,

you'll need to take everything apart to get to it:
But then, if the shuttersolenoids are damaged you can forget it, I have never seen them on offer anywhere.


QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
.
- solenoid is not moving at all, position of its levar is not affecting the wheels ( it schould be locking when it is down, after applayng the current)
That was to be expected with all the wheels being jammed.
Possibly that some of the "return-springs" of some wheels jumped out, again, almost impossible to repair.



QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
.
- camara shoots black pictures
Sure, the solenoid does not move and the shutter won't open.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
.
- lens is working, focuses, etc. You can see it through the viewfinder
- all the buttons and wheels are working properly, Ive tested on debuging tool.
- the flash does not fire, even in forced mode
Well, of course you can try to dig deeper.

I see it like this:
parts that can be used for spares:

- focusing screen (fits K5/3/KP, K30/50/500/K-S1/2/70)
- LCD fits many
- Back cover

- Top-cover
- the battery hook!

- motherboards
- sensor

Some ebay-sellers make more money with parts than a defunct complete body.
01-28-2021, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #23
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Thank you all for your help I appreciate it, but i think it's time to close the project.
I checked the motherboard for any visible damage to the cables or anything else of interest. I found nothing there.
After assembling the camera and inserting the battery, it came back to life,
I took ~ 10 good clean photos and it locked up again.

It might be something really small, but I can't find it.
I saw on ebay whole shutter units, not that expensive, but the work is horrible, and I think there is no point in replacing parts, counting for good luck

well, I finish the project for now, I will focus on cameras that work

yet

01-28-2021, 08:12 AM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
Thank you,

current status:

- mirror is operating ( view finder works), except it does not go up when "sensor cleaning" enabled
- shutter stuck, completly closed
- aprerature wheels locked, to move it I have to apply much more force ( feel that some spring is blocking it, it returns to its previous place after removing the pressure)
- solenoid is not moving at all, position of its levar is not affecting the wheels ( it schould be locking when it is down, after applayng the current)
- camara shoots black pictures
- lens is working, focuses, etc. You can see it through the viewfinder
- all the buttons and wheels are working propperly, Ive testedd on debuging tool.
- the flash does not fire, even in forced mode
- mirror is operating ( view finder works), except it does not go up when "sensor cleaning" enabled
Does the mirror goes up in live View mode even the shutter remains closed?
Does the mirror goes up and down when shooting in ordidary manner (using optical view finder)?

- shutter stuck, completly closed
You can check if the shutter is stucked on first curtain or second curtain. Just elevate gently the mirror with your finger and look for metallic dot in upper left corner. It is almost hiding but can be seen. If you see that "dot", the shutter is in normal position (prepared to fire, as always after taking picture), stucked on first curtain. If you see the metallic dot in lower left corner, the shutter is stucked on second curtain (it means the shutter opened first curtain and closed the second, but did not completed whole cycle to be prepared for the next shot). This can be the sign of shutter failure, but not mechanical in origin, most likely electronical. If the previous owner did something wrong on the mother board, shortened the circuitry, the shutter can not operate properly.

- the flash does not fire, even in forced mode
Maybe this can be related to the fact that shutter curtains do not operate properly. This can also indicate capacitor problems. You can check if the capacitor is charging, but I don't know if it's ethical to offer to try it with your fingers, because the discharge is really unpleasant (I've experienced this more than once)

- aperture wheels locked, to move it I have to apply much more force (feel that some spring is blocking it, it returns to its previous place after removing the pressure)
What diaphragm wheels are you talking about? Do you mean the controller of lens' aperture lever that is located on the left side (looking from the mount side)? You can push it up by finger with some force and normally it returns back due to force of the spring inside (it is visible through the slit). That is normal behavior. The normal position of the controller is in the middle. For the controller of aperture lever to stuck mechanically there should be damage of gears inside the mirror movement mechanics. I opened once that "pandora box". OMG!! Luckily I assembled it back correctly.
BTW, if you meant wheels that are partly visible from the side of solenoid ant you tried to spin them applying the force, it is normal to return for them after removing force, because there are some springs inside as well as a claw, similar to an engine crankshaft.

- solenoid is not moving at all, position of its levar is not affecting the wheels ( it schould be locking when it is down, after applayng the current)
You can remove that solenoid by unscrewing 1 screw and move the lever operated by the solenoid core with your finger. BTW, I noted that in Pentax cameras the manufacturer use connecting wires of the same color even in different models. Check if one is lightly rose and another lightly violet (should be for sure). Are those wires soldered in correct way as in picture below?



Last edited by Medex; 01-28-2021 at 08:28 AM.
01-28-2021, 09:52 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by medex Quote
- mirror is operating ( view finder works), except it does not go up when "sensor cleaning" enabled
does the mirror goes up in live view mode even the shutter remains closed?
Does the mirror goes up and down when shooting in ordidary manner (using optical view finder)?
the situation is very dynamic


at the moment the mirror is already blocked at the top, LV is black. shutter is closed, I can move it up. When I press LV I hear some quiet hum inside the body


QuoteOriginally posted by medex Quote
- shutter stuck, completly closed
you can check if the shutter is stucked on first curtain or second curtain. Just elevate gently the mirror with your finger and look for metallic dot in upper left corner. It is almost hiding but can be seen. If you see that "dot", the shutter is in normal position (prepared to fire, as always after taking picture), stucked on first curtain. If you see the metallic dot in lower left corner, the shutter is stucked on second curtain (it means the shutter opened first curtain and closed the second, but did not completed whole cycle to be prepared for the next shot). This can be the sign of shutter failure, but not mechanical in origin, most likely electronical. If the previous owner did something wrong on the mother board, shortened the circuitry, the shutter can not operate properly.
shutter looks now as on the picture. which is bad I guess
does not shoot at all

QuoteOriginally posted by medex Quote
- the flash does not fire, even in forced mode
maybe this can be related to the fact that shutter curtains do not operate properly. This can also indicate capacitor problems. You can check if the capacitor is charging, but i don't know if it's ethical to offer to try it with your fingers, because the discharge is really unpleasant (i've experienced this more than once)
Hmm, I will check the capacitor, but later, when I find a bulb



QuoteOriginally posted by medex Quote
- aperture wheels locked, to move it i have to apply much more force (feel that some spring is blocking it, it returns to its previous place after removing the pressure)
what diaphragm wheels are you talking about? Do you mean the controller of lens' aperture lever that is located on the left side (looking from the mount side)? You can push it up by finger with some force and normally it returns back due to force of the spring inside (it is visible through the slit). That is normal behavior. The normal position of the controller is in the middle. For the controller of aperture lever to stuck mechanically there should be damage of gears inside the mirror movement mechanics. I opened once that "pandora box". Omg!! Luckily i assembled it back correctly.
Btw, if you meant wheels that are partly visible from the side of solenoid ant you tried to spin them applying the force, it is normal to return for them after removing force, because there are some springs inside as well as a claw, similar to an engine crankshaft.
yes I ment the whole aperture mechanism, I was pushing the lever that you can see on this picture.

..


QuoteOriginally posted by medex Quote
- solenoid is not moving at all, position of its levar is not affecting the wheels ( it schould be locking when it is down, after applayng the current)
you can remove that solenoid by unscrewing 1 screw and move the lever operated by the solenoid core with your finger. Btw, i noted that in pentax cameras the manufacturer use connecting wires of the same color even in different models. Check if one is lightly rose and another lightly violet (should be for sure). Are those wires soldered in correct way as in picture below?

Solenoid is locking the aperture mechanism when pushes the pin down, I ripped a broken MZ50 to pieces to get a solenoid.
I wish I had looked at the mechanism in more detail. But I have a piece of it with gears and I can see more or less how the solenoid locking works.
cables that go to solenoid are as on the picture you posted.






.....
Attached Images
 

Last edited by pentarad; 01-28-2021 at 10:23 AM. Reason: typo
01-28-2021, 10:36 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
the situation is very dynamic

shutter looks now as on the picture. which is bad I guess
does not shoot at all

.....
Yes, looks like shutter is stucked on second curtain.
When I had this same problem with my K-1, the problem was failure of shutter charge motor. But K-30 does not have this part.
I think some problems occurred in circuitry when the camera was disassembled and maybe not properly managed during "repair" of solenoid.
01-28-2021, 10:56 AM   #27
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I think it might be some bad contact. somewhere.
because the camera works once and not.
but unfortunately I don't see any relation between my actions and the results.

looks like random results
01-28-2021, 11:00 AM   #28
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I suspect the problem is electrical. Solenoids, or perhaps capacitor, since camera woke up again after inserting a battery.
01-28-2021, 11:18 AM   #29
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I forgot to mention, sometimes camara freezes, iso/shutter time/F are blinking, and camara it does not respond to buttons, including on / off, only removing the battery will turn it off
02-04-2021, 09:47 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentarad Quote
I forgot to mention, sometimes camara freezes, iso/shutter time/F are blinking, and camara it does not respond to buttons, including on / off, only removing the battery will turn it off
Any update on yours pentarad? I've got the same problem. The mirror was not fully returning to the resting position and now it's stuck fully up with shutter permanently closed.

The camera only turns on up when a lens is attached, LCD will stay frozen on the info screen until I try to take a photo which will be black (shutter/mirror not moved at all). Once photo is taken the buttons start responding and I can get to the menus. Camera wont turn off most of the time.
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