Pentax EVIL NC-1 has smaller sensor than APS-C - your opinion?

**Aristophanes** · 06-04-2011, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by ghelary

IMO keeping the K-mount would be a brilliant move, the size of a system is determined by a body + the lens on it. I feel the Sony NEXT very nice, but clunky with lens on it.

Keeping the K-mount while removing the mirror, would allow the lens to recede in behind the mount. A great advantage for designing wide angles (and the reason why Leica have such mythical wide angles)

24mm non-retrofocus anyone? 50mm collapsible Elmar on a digital FF?

Of course that would mean adding a little knob to prevent mounting those lenses on a classic SLR k-mount design.

The current thickness of D-SLR bodies is due to sensor thickness + stabilization/mounting of it + the viewing screen. There is a great potential of miniaturization for each of them especially the screen where it is driven by the cell-phone industry.

IMO keeping the K-mount would be a very good move in the long term, unless we come up with an absolutely revolutionary way of designing lenses, they will keep being the determining factor in the size of a system.

AF is the critical factor. No AF, no sales. That requires a motor and power, so everything bulks up. Driving AF on more massive FA glass will likely require an adapter like a grip which can also increase the flange distance as need be.

philbaum · 06-04-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass. Sony is rumored to have the NEX-7 and Olympus is rumored to be coming out with a Pro-M/4/3. Fuji seems to have the best idea of the group so far. Fuji can't keep up with demand for the X100.

I went down to a local art walk. Talked to a coop gallery member i had previously met and complimented him on one of his displayed photos. He said it was a candid shot from a cafe, said he liked street photo type stuff.

Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. I showed him my Pentax K5 with a DA 21mm lens.

I've not been that interested in one of the MILC cameras - till now. The viewfinder was terrific and i liked the size of it. After i got home, i read up about the numerous buggy problems they are having with the firmware. Hopefully, they will fix that problem.

But my opinion is this. I like the idea of an aps sensor in a body like the Fuji. I think Pentax should come out with such a camera body, with Nikon or Pentax compatible mount. Pentax knows how to build compact bodies that are good for shooters. I don't think we need a new lens standard however. If Pentax doesn't want to go with the Nikon mount like Fuji, or the K mount for whatever reason, then at the least, it should be compatible with the m4/3 mount. I would not buy a Pentax MILC that had a PS sensor in it.

Winder · 06-04-2011, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

I went down to a local art walk. Talked to a coop gallery member i had previously met and complimented him on one of his displayed photos. He said it was a candid shot from a cafe, said he liked street photo type stuff.

Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. I showed him my Pentax K5 with a DA 21mm lens.

I've not been that interested in one of the MILF cameras - till now. The viewfinder was terrific and i liked the size of it. After i got home, i read up about the numerous buggy problems they are having with the firmware. Hopefully, they will fix that problem.

But my opinion is this. I like the idea of an aps sensor in a body like the Fuji. I think Pentax should come out with such a camera body, with Nikon or Pentax compatible mount. Pentax knows how to build compact bodies that are good for shooters. I don't think we need a new lens standard however. If Pentax doesn't want to go with the Nikon mount like Fuji, or the K mount for whatever reason, then at the least, it should be compatible with the m4/3 mount. I would not buy a Pentax MILF that had a PS sensor in it.

The Fuji X100 is not without its problems, but it is a step in the right direction. Even M4/3 (EP-2) has a lot of potential. I am not seeing the quality of glass that I am looking for in the current offering.

Mistral75 · 06-04-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

(...)
Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. (...)

Sorry to contradict you but the Fuji X100's lens isn't compatible with Nikon's F mount: it's a fixed lens sealed to the body.

Raffwal · 06-04-2011, 02:46 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by philbaum

I've not been that interested in one of the MILF cameras - till now.

Been browsing interesting websites lately, have we?

Mistral75 · 06-04-2011, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Raffwal

Been browsing interesting websites lately, have we?

Moro Islamic Liberation Front - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

stanleyk · 06-04-2011, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass. Sony is rumored to have the NEX-7 and Olympus is rumored to be coming out with a Pro-M/4/3. Fuji seems to have the best idea of the group so far. Fuji can't keep up with demand for the X100.

The EP-3 might be interesting, but Olympus needs to come out with some SHG primes for M4/3.

I had to wait 6 weeks to get my X100 after ordering it. I'm still waiting on the case and hood. But, after using it for two days it was worth everyday of waiting. It's a fantastic camera. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out probably too much for the camera. I'm even happier with it than the K5 and I love the K5.

philbaum · 06-04-2011, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by stanleyk

I had to wait 6 weeks to get my X100 after ordering it. I'm still waiting on the case and hood. But, after using it for two days it was worth everyday of waiting. It's a fantastic camera. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out probably too much for the camera. I'm even happier with it than the K5 and I love the K5.

I only got to compare it with my K5 last night for 10 minutes, but it looks great. They need some competition with another APS mirrorless camera to get the price down i'm thinking.

stanleyk · 06-04-2011, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

I only got to compare it with my K5 last night for 10 minutes, but it looks great. They need some competition with another APS mirrorless camera to get the price down i'm thinking.

I certainly wouldn't argue that it's not a niche camera. I never use anything longer than either a 77mm or an M42 Takumar 85mm that I have and I rarely use those. I've actually found that only having the one lens is quite liberating. And it doesn't hurt that it's a really great lens. The image quality on this camera is very good.

I've been a M4/3 user for a while and really like the format. But I think I've finally found my camera with the X100. I haven't used anything else since I got it and don't see that changing anytime soon.

eddie1960 · 06-04-2011, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

I went down to a local art walk. Talked to a coop gallery member i had previously met and complimented him on one of his displayed photos. He said it was a candid shot from a cafe, said he liked street photo type stuff.

Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. I showed him my Pentax K5 with a DA 21mm lens.

I've not been that interested in one of the MILC cameras - till now. The viewfinder was terrific and i liked the size of it. After i got home, i read up about the numerous buggy problems they are having with the firmware. Hopefully, they will fix that problem.

But my opinion is this. I like the idea of an aps sensor in a body like the Fuji. I think Pentax should come out with such a camera body, with Nikon or Pentax compatible mount. Pentax knows how to build compact bodies that are good for shooters. I don't think we need a new lens standard however. If Pentax doesn't want to go with the Nikon mount like Fuji, or the K mount for whatever reason, then at the least, it should be compatible with the m4/3 mount. I would not buy a Pentax MILC that had a PS sensor in it.

Funnily enough i met lbam (the originator of the travelling nifty fifty) at an art walk today and got to play with his x100
I have to agree phil made me want one badly (already did this just confirmed it) need to start sellinf off gear to get the cash together)

Pentaxor · 06-04-2011, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by stanleyk

I had to wait 6 weeks to get my X100 after ordering it. I'm still waiting on the case and hood. But, after using it for two days it was worth everyday of waiting. It's a fantastic camera. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out probably too much for the camera. I'm even happier with it than the K5 and I love the K5.

any photos that you might possibly share taken by the X100?

thethirdcoast · 06-04-2011, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Winder

The Fuji X100 is not without its problems, but it is a step in the right direction. Even M4/3 (EP-2) has a lot of potential. I am not seeing the quality of glass that I am looking for in the current offering.

I wonder if it is possible for Olympus to re-mount some of their extremely tasty 4/3rds Zuiko High Grade and Super High Grade lenses for m4/3?

Maybe that's a tall order and that's why the only m4/3 lens options are mostly slow, slightly better built consumer zooms with silly prices. However, I do have to confess that I've been mightily impressed with birding photos from the GH2 + 100-300mm telezoom. I'm not typically a tele shooter, but that compact setup could turn me into one.

falconeye · 06-05-2011, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass.

That is true. And not on the horizon.

Actually, I don't even watch for a serious mirrorless camera. The step before could be a hybrid camera with a translucent (read semitransparent) swing mirror but unlike the SLT, still retaining the optical viewfinder. The optical and electronic viewfinder images should then be overlaid in an adjustable way. Moreover, phase and contrast AF should then assist each other for ultimate speed and accuracy. And the choice between optical and electronic VF would be great during video too. The mirror would stay down for very fast (read 24fps) or quiet still video sequences, using electronic shutter circuitry.

That's the kind of camera I am watching out for, ideally FF. I lost hope for it though

thibs · 06-05-2011, 08:44 AM

An Eos RT digital with hybrid viewfinder if understand correctly.

Winder · 06-05-2011, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by thibs

An Eos RT digital with hybrid viewfinder if understand correctly.

It used a pellicle mirror similar to SLT, but it was still an optical VF. It was a very good camera. I still have the EOS 630 which was the same body, but with a traditional mirror.

I like the technology that Sony is working on. I think it still has to improve a good bit, but it has potential. I'm just not sure if SLT is a temporary fix until 100 EVF becomes a reality.

06-04-2011, 01:52 PM	#677
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass. Sony is rumored to have the NEX-7 and Olympus is rumored to be coming out with a Pro-M/4/3. Fuji seems to have the best idea of the group so far. Fuji can't keep up with demand for the X100. I went down to a local art walk. Talked to a coop gallery member i had previously met and complimented him on one of his displayed photos. He said it was a candid shot from a cafe, said he liked street photo type stuff. Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. I showed him my Pentax K5 with a DA 21mm lens. I've not been that interested in one of the MILC cameras - till now. The viewfinder was terrific and i liked the size of it. After i got home, i read up about the numerous buggy problems they are having with the firmware. Hopefully, they will fix that problem. But my opinion is this. I like the idea of an aps sensor in a body like the Fuji. I think Pentax should come out with such a camera body, with Nikon or Pentax compatible mount. Pentax knows how to build compact bodies that are good for shooters. I don't think we need a new lens standard however. If Pentax doesn't want to go with the Nikon mount like Fuji, or the K mount for whatever reason, then at the least, it should be compatible with the m4/3 mount. I would not buy a Pentax MILC that had a PS sensor in it. Last edited by philbaum; 06-04-2011 at 03:44 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Canon 120mp APS-H CMOS sensor !	jogiba	Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands	16	08-22-2013 10:48 PM
Arguably the worlds best sensor, and it's way smaller than full frame. 500+ MP	Clinton	Photographic Technique	25	03-04-2011 09:10 PM
New Samsung APS-C sensor with 10.7 fps	ogl	Pentax News and Rumors	84	06-29-2010 12:52 AM
Would you buy a Pentax P&S with APS-C sensor?	NorthPentax	Pentax News and Rumors	20	04-01-2009 10:47 AM
My only gripe about aps-c sensor	pasipasi	Pentax DSLR Discussion	14	03-13-2009 06:17 PM

06-04-2011, 08:51 AM	#676
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by ghelary IMO keeping the K-mount would be a brilliant move, the size of a system is determined by a body + the lens on it. I feel the Sony NEXT very nice, but clunky with lens on it. Keeping the K-mount while removing the mirror, would allow the lens to recede in behind the mount. A great advantage for designing wide angles (and the reason why Leica have such mythical wide angles) 24mm non-retrofocus anyone? 50mm collapsible Elmar on a digital FF? Of course that would mean adding a little knob to prevent mounting those lenses on a classic SLR k-mount design. The current thickness of D-SLR bodies is due to sensor thickness + stabilization/mounting of it + the viewing screen. There is a great potential of miniaturization for each of them especially the screen where it is driven by the cell-phone industry. IMO keeping the K-mount would be a very good move in the long term, unless we come up with an absolutely revolutionary way of designing lenses, they will keep being the determining factor in the size of a system. AF is the critical factor. No AF, no sales. That requires a motor and power, so everything bulks up. Driving AF on more massive FA glass will likely require an adapter like a grip which can also increase the flange distance as need be.

06-04-2011, 02:02 PM	#678
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by philbaum I went down to a local art walk. Talked to a coop gallery member i had previously met and complimented him on one of his displayed photos. He said it was a candid shot from a cafe, said he liked street photo type stuff. Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. I showed him my Pentax K5 with a DA 21mm lens. I've not been that interested in one of the MILF cameras - till now. The viewfinder was terrific and i liked the size of it. After i got home, i read up about the numerous buggy problems they are having with the firmware. Hopefully, they will fix that problem. But my opinion is this. I like the idea of an aps sensor in a body like the Fuji. I think Pentax should come out with such a camera body, with Nikon or Pentax compatible mount. Pentax knows how to build compact bodies that are good for shooters. I don't think we need a new lens standard however. If Pentax doesn't want to go with the Nikon mount like Fuji, or the K mount for whatever reason, then at the least, it should be compatible with the m4/3 mount. I would not buy a Pentax MILF that had a PS sensor in it. The Fuji X100 is not without its problems, but it is a step in the right direction. Even M4/3 (EP-2) has a lot of potential. I am not seeing the quality of glass that I am looking for in the current offering.

06-04-2011, 02:13 PM	#679
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by philbaum (...) Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. (...) Sorry to contradict you but the Fuji X100's lens isn't compatible with Nikon's F mount: it's a fixed lens sealed to the body.

06-04-2011, 02:46 PM - 1 Like	#680
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	Originally posted by philbaum I've not been that interested in one of the MILF cameras - till now. Been browsing interesting websites lately, have we?

06-04-2011, 03:07 PM	#681
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Raffwal Been browsing interesting websites lately, have we? Moro Islamic Liberation Front - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

06-04-2011, 03:36 PM	#682
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	Originally posted by Winder Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass. Sony is rumored to have the NEX-7 and Olympus is rumored to be coming out with a Pro-M/4/3. Fuji seems to have the best idea of the group so far. Fuji can't keep up with demand for the X100. The EP-3 might be interesting, but Olympus needs to come out with some SHG primes for M4/3. I had to wait 6 weeks to get my X100 after ordering it. I'm still waiting on the case and hood. But, after using it for two days it was worth everyday of waiting. It's a fantastic camera. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out probably too much for the camera. I'm even happier with it than the K5 and I love the K5.

06-04-2011, 03:51 PM	#683
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by stanleyk I had to wait 6 weeks to get my X100 after ordering it. I'm still waiting on the case and hood. But, after using it for two days it was worth everyday of waiting. It's a fantastic camera. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out probably too much for the camera. I'm even happier with it than the K5 and I love the K5. I only got to compare it with my K5 last night for 10 minutes, but it looks great. They need some competition with another APS mirrorless camera to get the price down i'm thinking.

06-04-2011, 03:56 PM	#684
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	Originally posted by philbaum I only got to compare it with my K5 last night for 10 minutes, but it looks great. They need some competition with another APS mirrorless camera to get the price down i'm thinking. I certainly wouldn't argue that it's not a niche camera. I never use anything longer than either a 77mm or an M42 Takumar 85mm that I have and I rarely use those. I've actually found that only having the one lens is quite liberating. And it doesn't hurt that it's a really great lens. The image quality on this camera is very good. I've been a M4/3 user for a while and really like the format. But I think I've finally found my camera with the X100. I haven't used anything else since I got it and don't see that changing anytime soon.

06-04-2011, 06:51 PM	#685
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by philbaum I went down to a local art walk. Talked to a coop gallery member i had previously met and complimented him on one of his displayed photos. He said it was a candid shot from a cafe, said he liked street photo type stuff. Showed me his new Fuji x100 with an aps sensor and a 22mm lens compatible with Nikon mount. I showed him my Pentax K5 with a DA 21mm lens. I've not been that interested in one of the MILC cameras - till now. The viewfinder was terrific and i liked the size of it. After i got home, i read up about the numerous buggy problems they are having with the firmware. Hopefully, they will fix that problem. But my opinion is this. I like the idea of an aps sensor in a body like the Fuji. I think Pentax should come out with such a camera body, with Nikon or Pentax compatible mount. Pentax knows how to build compact bodies that are good for shooters. I don't think we need a new lens standard however. If Pentax doesn't want to go with the Nikon mount like Fuji, or the K mount for whatever reason, then at the least, it should be compatible with the m4/3 mount. I would not buy a Pentax MILC that had a PS sensor in it. Funnily enough i met lbam (the originator of the travelling nifty fifty) at an art walk today and got to play with his x100 I have to agree phil made me want one badly (already did this just confirmed it) need to start sellinf off gear to get the cash together)

06-04-2011, 07:17 PM	#686
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by stanleyk I had to wait 6 weeks to get my X100 after ordering it. I'm still waiting on the case and hood. But, after using it for two days it was worth everyday of waiting. It's a fantastic camera. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about shelling out probably too much for the camera. I'm even happier with it than the K5 and I love the K5. any photos that you might possibly share taken by the X100?

06-04-2011, 07:23 PM	#687
thethirdcoast Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wharton, NJ Photos: Albums Posts: 72	Originally posted by Winder The Fuji X100 is not without its problems, but it is a step in the right direction. Even M4/3 (EP-2) has a lot of potential. I am not seeing the quality of glass that I am looking for in the current offering. I wonder if it is possible for Olympus to re-mount some of their extremely tasty 4/3rds Zuiko High Grade and Super High Grade lenses for m4/3? Maybe that's a tall order and that's why the only m4/3 lens options are mostly slow, slightly better built consumer zooms with silly prices. However, I do have to confess that I've been mightily impressed with birding photos from the GH2 + 100-300mm telezoom. I'm not typically a tele shooter, but that compact setup could turn me into one.

06-05-2011, 06:14 AM	#688
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Winder Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass. That is true. And not on the horizon. Actually, I don't even watch for a serious mirrorless camera. The step before could be a hybrid camera with a translucent (read semitransparent) swing mirror but unlike the SLT, still retaining the optical viewfinder. The optical and electronic viewfinder images should then be overlaid in an adjustable way. Moreover, phase and contrast AF should then assist each other for ultimate speed and accuracy. And the choice between optical and electronic VF would be great during video too. The mirror would stay down for very fast (read 24fps) or quiet still video sequences, using electronic shutter circuitry. That's the kind of camera I am watching out for, ideally FF. I lost hope for it though

06-05-2011, 08:44 AM	#689
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	An Eos RT digital with hybrid viewfinder if understand correctly.

06-05-2011, 09:10 AM	#690
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by thibs An Eos RT digital with hybrid viewfinder if understand correctly. It used a pellicle mirror similar to SLT, but it was still an optical VF. It was a very good camera. I still have the EOS 630 which was the same body, but with a traditional mirror. I like the technology that Sony is working on. I think it still has to improve a good bit, but it has potential. I'm just not sure if SLT is a temporary fix until 100 EVF becomes a reality.