AP article: Pentax won't rule out mirrorless cameras

aliquis · 05-12-2010, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by blende8

So, the Kx is about 6 times slower than the EVILs in contrast AF?

It seems so yes (probably not a focus of development when flipping the mirror down got it so quick.)

And flickering mirror up and down all the time for continous auto-focus during filming don't seem like something one want to do (3600 times / minute at 60 fps? ;D) so that's no continous af on those cameras.

Was there any such numbers for the 550D/7D to?

I know it could flip down the mirror to at will but I wonder how fast the contrast-detect one is, not as fast as the Panasonic atleast.

Any numbers for the Olympus ones?

I've also understood one want different kinds of af-motors for contrast-detect autofocus.

aliquis · 05-12-2010, 05:03 AM

550D:
Full Autofocus
Auto Selection AF
Optical Viewfinder

0.210 second

Full Autofocus
Live View
"Quick Mode"
(Phase Detect)
w kitlens instead of the sigma since it didn't worked with sigma

0.991 second

Full Autofocus
Live View
"Live Mode"
(Contrast Detect)
1.720 seconds

So not even close...

D90:
Full Autofocus
Auto-Area AF
Optical Viewfinder

0.270 second

Prefocused
Optical Viewfinder

0.067 second

Full Autofocus
Live View
2.294 seconds

Sony got a different system so maybe they are better:

a-550 not tested, 380 is and it was quick!

Full Autofocus
Wide Area AF

0.204 second

Pre-focused

0.107 second

Full Autofocus
Single Area AF
Live View mode
0.196 second

"The nice thing about Sony's Live View implementation is that shutter lag in Live View mode is just as fast as when using the optical viewfinder. (In this case, full AF was slightly faster, at 0.196 second.) This is because the second image sensor located in the A380's viewfinder housing alleviates the need for the additional mirror flips required by most other phase-detect Live View implementations. Other phase-detect systems need to drop the mirror, focus, and raise it again to before taking a shot in Live View mode, or employ a slower contrast-detect autofocus method using the main image sensor. Since the image sensor feeding the A380's live preview is located above the mirror, the mirror stays down until the final exposure, exactly as it does in optical viewfinder mode. As noted elsewhere, though, the downside of this type of Live View implementation is lower accuracy for the Live View viewfinder display."

Oh, I thought it had some special focus device when mirror was down, not some sort of "preview-sensor" when mirror was up

, so no contrast-detect I guess, just fast anyway, but won't work for video on the large sensor =P

Olympus E-P2:

Multi-area AF mode,
Telephoto
0.929 second

Rather crap ..

Oh well, so sony and panasonic contrast-detect = fast, olympus = rather poor, sony = does live-view without using contrast-detect, everyone else = slow when using contrast-detect but fast otherwise.

falconeye · 05-12-2010, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by aliquis

Oh well, so sony and panasonic contrast-detect = fast, olympus = rather poor, sony = does live-view without using contrast-detect, everyone else = slow when using contrast-detect but fast otherwise.

This means that Sony has no more reason for their second LV sensor design when using their Exmor HD sensor in forthcoming dSLRs.

Currently, they are the only SLR manufacturer who has demonstrated that contrast AF with an APS-C sensor can be made fast enough.

And if you remember correctly, I've always predicted that contrast AF can be made faster than phase AF. Another factor 2-4 and we're there.

youky63 · 05-12-2010, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by aliquis

Regarding contrast-detect focus speeds:
NEX5 focus speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxPgNVDGK8
GF1 focus speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfgtC2kVD1o

These 2 videos are a little bit questionable...

-First, if we can guess that the Sony is using the 18-55mm (since it's not the pancake), we don't know which lens is used on the Panasonic. It can make a lot of difference since the kit lens of Sony is probably not built to be the faster focusing lens in the world.

-Then, look at the setting: the NEX5 is used at f/3.5, while the GF1 at f/5.6. Keep also in mind that Sony is using a little bit bigger sensor, then you can imagine that the DOF is quite different between these 2 systems! So it's not a surprise to see a "faster" GF1.

For all these reasons, and as I don't care to know which one is the real faster (since I don't care about EVIL), I would like to congratulate Sony for the development of an innovative and interesting (but still not perfect) new kind of camera.

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-12-2010, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by i83N

Other possibility that they will make a FF DSLR with moving back and forward sensor to change from FF to APS-C

this does nothing to change format.,

the focus plane and regestry distance remain unchanged regardless of sensor size, if the lens mount stays the same.

However a moving (back and forward) sensor does offer some interesting new design concepts.

First you could add shake reduction into the 3rd dimension, not just lateral or vertical but aolng the axis of the optical path.

second, you could add a lot more in terms of focus adjustment.

gazonk · 05-12-2010, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

First you could add shake reduction into the 3rd dimension, not just lateral or vertical but aolng the axis of the optical path.

That would be pretty interesting for handheld macro photography!

nosnoop · 05-12-2010, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

This means that Sony has no more reason for their second LV sensor design when using their Exmor HD sensor in forthcoming dSLRs.
Currently, they are the only SLR manufacturer who has demonstrated that contrast AF with an APS-C sensor can be made fast enough.

The speed can only be achieved by specially designed lens - with significant weight reduction of the focusing group, and positioning adjustment. That's why there is no AF available at all for Alpha lens mounted to NEX via adapter!

falconeye · 05-12-2010, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by nosnoop

The speed can only be achieved by specially designed lens - with significant weight reduction of the focusing group, and positioning adjustment.

This statement is based on assumptions which don't hold true in general.

ogl · 05-12-2010, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by aliquis

Oh well, so sony and panasonic contrast-detect = fast, olympus = rather poor, sony = does live-view without using contrast-detect, everyone else = slow when using contrast-detect but fast otherwise.

NEX-5

Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Wide Angle 0.441 second
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Telephoto 0.444 second

Prefocused 0.115 second

GF1
Prefocused 0.072 second

14-45mm lens @14mm
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode 0.473 second
14-45mm lens @45mm
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode 0.402 second

NX10
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Wide Angle 0.424 second
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Telephoto 0.388 second
Prefocused 0.119 second

nosnoop · 05-12-2010, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

This statement is based on assumptions which don't hold true in general.

Check out dpreview's AF tests on Panasonic vs Olympus. The camera AF design certainly plays a major role. But the lens design made a huge difference as well - as demonstrated by Panasonic camera using Olympus lens.

And do note that those Olympus lenses were already designed with Contrast AF in mind!

falconeye · 05-12-2010, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

Check out dpreview's AF tests on Panasonic vs Olympus.

You make a generic assertion ("The speed can only be achieved by specially designed lens"). This cannot be proven by testing existing products. You would have to provide reasons and I would probably challenge them. I don't disagree that existing MILCs require specific lenses for fast AF.

aliquis · 05-12-2010, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

This means that Sony has no more reason for their second LV sensor design when using their Exmor HD sensor in forthcoming dSLRs.

Currently, they are the only SLR manufacturer who has demonstrated that contrast AF with an APS-C sensor can be made fast enough.

And if you remember correctly, I've always predicted that contrast AF can be made faster than phase AF. Another factor 2-4 and we're there.

I don't know if I get the first part, but yeah, if they got a new sensor and technology for fast contrast-detect focus they don't need the mirror and second sensor, but that was kinda obvious? The question is if they will drop the mirror but keep the camera design and go EVF or whatever. Or maybe I don't get what you're saying.

They don't seem to be using contrast-af, well, if you mean in the DSLRs, they seem to be using phase-detect since they can since their live view sensor works with mirror down. If you speak of the NEX cameras then yes, but who doubted it could be made fast enough? Why would it be harder with APS-C than micro four thirds? Just throw enough bandwidth and processing power at it.

Originally posted by youky63

These 2 videos are a little bit questionable...

-First, if we can guess that the Sony is using the 18-55mm (since it's not the pancake), we don't know which lens is used on the Panasonic. It can make a lot of difference since the kit lens of Sony is probably not built to be the faster focusing lens in the world.

-Then, look at the setting: the NEX5 is used at f/3.5, while the GF1 at f/5.6. Keep also in mind that Sony is using a little bit bigger sensor, then you can imagine that the DOF is quite different between these 2 systems! So it's not a surprise to see a "faster" GF1.

For all these reasons, and as I don't care to know which one is the real faster (since I don't care about EVIL), I would like to congratulate Sony for the development of an innovative and interesting (but still not perfect) new kind of camera.

Well, it's just two videos posted on sony alpha rumors. I haven't made them and don't say they are valid or prove anything.

Also I think speed looked rather similar even if they claimed different. Neither would be a show stopper for me.

Originally posted by ogl

NEX-5

Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Wide Angle 0.441 second
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Telephoto 0.444 second

Prefocused 0.115 second

GF1
Prefocused 0.072 second

14-45mm lens @14mm
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode 0.473 second
14-45mm lens @45mm
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode 0.402 second

NX10
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Wide Angle 0.424 second
Full Autofocus,
Single-area AF mode
Telephoto 0.388 second
Prefocused 0.119 second

You just wanted to add the NX1? Thanks, forgot about it, and yes, it seems it with the others. And IR used the same lens for their tests (where it worked.)

I saw some talk here about a Nikon MILC, and some patents from 2009:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t43483.html

Must read more about it.

falconeye · 05-13-2010, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by aliquis

I don't know if I get the first part, but yeah, if they got a new sensor and technology for fast contrast-detect focus they don't need the mirror and second sensor, but that was kinda obvious? The question is if they will drop the mirror but keep the camera design and go EVF or whatever. Or maybe I don't get what you're saying.

They don't seem to be using contrast-af, well, if you mean in the DSLRs, they seem to be using phase-detect since they can since their live view sensor works with mirror down. If you speak of the NEX cameras then yes, but who doubted it could be made fast enough? Why would it be harder with APS-C than micro four thirds?

What I meant is ...

Sony can now make a SLR without the second sensor. It would still have a mirror as otherwise, wouldn't be an SLR but the NEX. There aren't any SLRs with fast contrast AF. Sony may be the first to make one. In some situations, it may be a desirable thing to have.

The sensor (size) plays a rôle too. For excellent contrast AF performance, you better continuously read as many pixels as possible and this creates more heat with a larger sensor. Reading only a subset of pixels deteriorates AF performance except if the AF algorithm zooms onto a region of interest during focus. AFAIK, no APSC sensor in current SLRs can be programmed to do this. Not sure about LiveMOS here.

I may not get what you are saying though. You may think that it is easier to implement fast contrast AF in a MILC than an SLR. Well, I don't think this. Which is a reason why I came back on nosnoop's proposition that special lenses are (always) needed.

RMabo · 05-13-2010, 04:07 AM

Well, nothing really substantial in the interview - other than a hint to that the engineers wants to make a mirrorless camera, and why not? Engineers like challenges.
But that Pentax (Hoya) has not yet decided if they would make one.
This suggests that there are prototypes, but the engineers has not yet got the final word about making it production ready.
Hoya has not decided yet if this is the way to go. Can it sell enough to be profitable?
And what about lenses?
Engineers wants many things, but usually few of those engineering-dreams are made into a saleable product.

About "big things this year". The chief over Pentax Europe has confirmed new cameras coming this year, and it seems to be at least three DSLR's so that is quite many. (updates to K-7, K-x and a new model in-between).

If Pentax goes mirrorless, then I believe this is the last update for the entry level APS-C DSLR segment for Pentax and the future APS-C will concentrate on enthusiast to pro market, leaving the mirrorless for the entry level to bridge the gap between p&s and DSLR's.

And then we have this thing about lenses...
Well, since Pentax hasn't released any new K-mount lens for a while (the DFA 100 WR being an exterior update, same optics as before), they could switch to micro K-mount development. This means no more new K-mount lenses from Pentax, only micro K-mount.

They doesn't have the r&d and production to support many different lens mounts, not alone. They need partners!

Kunzite · 05-13-2010, 04:35 AM

I don't see any hint that they would launch a "micro K-mount" system. They only said that, in the future, they might do it. They had similar comments about FF...
I would be very surprised if the next lenses will be "micro K-mount"; for now Hoya looks determined to complete the K-mount system. Maybe the lack of new K-mount products is due to the 645D?

05-12-2010, 08:11 PM	#72
aliquis Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Örebro Posts: 207	Originally posted by falconeye This means that Sony has no more reason for their second LV sensor design when using their Exmor HD sensor in forthcoming dSLRs. Currently, they are the only SLR manufacturer who has demonstrated that contrast AF with an APS-C sensor can be made fast enough. And if you remember correctly, I've always predicted that contrast AF can be made faster than phase AF. Another factor 2-4 and we're there. I don't know if I get the first part, but yeah, if they got a new sensor and technology for fast contrast-detect focus they don't need the mirror and second sensor, but that was kinda obvious? The question is if they will drop the mirror but keep the camera design and go EVF or whatever. Or maybe I don't get what you're saying. They don't seem to be using contrast-af, well, if you mean in the DSLRs, they seem to be using phase-detect since they can since their live view sensor works with mirror down. If you speak of the NEX cameras then yes, but who doubted it could be made fast enough? Why would it be harder with APS-C than micro four thirds? Just throw enough bandwidth and processing power at it. Originally posted by youky63 These 2 videos are a little bit questionable... -First, if we can guess that the Sony is using the 18-55mm (since it's not the pancake), we don't know which lens is used on the Panasonic. It can make a lot of difference since the kit lens of Sony is probably not built to be the faster focusing lens in the world. -Then, look at the setting: the NEX5 is used at f/3.5, while the GF1 at f/5.6. Keep also in mind that Sony is using a little bit bigger sensor, then you can imagine that the DOF is quite different between these 2 systems! So it's not a surprise to see a "faster" GF1. For all these reasons, and as I don't care to know which one is the real faster (since I don't care about EVIL), I would like to congratulate Sony for the development of an innovative and interesting (but still not perfect) new kind of camera. Well, it's just two videos posted on sony alpha rumors. I haven't made them and don't say they are valid or prove anything. Also I think speed looked rather similar even if they claimed different. Neither would be a show stopper for me. Originally posted by ogl NEX-5 Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Wide Angle 0.441 second Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Telephoto 0.444 second Prefocused 0.115 second GF1 Prefocused 0.072 second 14-45mm lens @14mm Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode 0.473 second 14-45mm lens @45mm Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode 0.402 second NX10 Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Wide Angle 0.424 second Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Telephoto 0.388 second Prefocused 0.119 second You just wanted to add the NX1? Thanks, forgot about it, and yes, it seems it with the others. And IR used the same lens for their tests (where it worked.) I saw some talk here about a Nikon MILC, and some patents from 2009: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t43483.html Must read more about it. Last edited by aliquis; 05-12-2010 at 08:45 PM.

05-13-2010, 02:56 AM	#73
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by aliquis I don't know if I get the first part, but yeah, if they got a new sensor and technology for fast contrast-detect focus they don't need the mirror and second sensor, but that was kinda obvious? The question is if they will drop the mirror but keep the camera design and go EVF or whatever. Or maybe I don't get what you're saying. They don't seem to be using contrast-af, well, if you mean in the DSLRs, they seem to be using phase-detect since they can since their live view sensor works with mirror down. If you speak of the NEX cameras then yes, but who doubted it could be made fast enough? Why would it be harder with APS-C than micro four thirds? What I meant is ... Sony can now make a SLR without the second sensor. It would still have a mirror as otherwise, wouldn't be an SLR but the NEX. There aren't any SLRs with fast contrast AF. Sony may be the first to make one. In some situations, it may be a desirable thing to have. The sensor (size) plays a rôle too. For excellent contrast AF performance, you better continuously read as many pixels as possible and this creates more heat with a larger sensor. Reading only a subset of pixels deteriorates AF performance except if the AF algorithm zooms onto a region of interest during focus. AFAIK, no APSC sensor in current SLRs can be programmed to do this. Not sure about LiveMOS here. I may not get what you are saying though. You may think that it is easier to implement fast contrast AF in a MILC than an SLR. Well, I don't think this. Which is a reason why I came back on nosnoop's proposition that special lenses are (always) needed. Last edited by falconeye; 05-13-2010 at 03:01 AM.

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05-12-2010, 04:50 AM	#61
aliquis Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Örebro Posts: 207	Originally posted by blende8 So, the Kx is about 6 times slower than the EVILs in contrast AF? It seems so yes (probably not a focus of development when flipping the mirror down got it so quick.) And flickering mirror up and down all the time for continous auto-focus during filming don't seem like something one want to do (3600 times / minute at 60 fps? ;D) so that's no continous af on those cameras. Was there any such numbers for the 550D/7D to? I know it could flip down the mirror to at will but I wonder how fast the contrast-detect one is, not as fast as the Panasonic atleast. Any numbers for the Olympus ones? I've also understood one want different kinds of af-motors for contrast-detect autofocus.

05-12-2010, 05:03 AM	#62
aliquis Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Örebro Posts: 207	550D: Full Autofocus Auto Selection AF Optical Viewfinder 0.210 second Full Autofocus Live View "Quick Mode" (Phase Detect) w kitlens instead of the sigma since it didn't worked with sigma 0.991 second Full Autofocus Live View "Live Mode" (Contrast Detect) 1.720 seconds So not even close... D90: Full Autofocus Auto-Area AF Optical Viewfinder 0.270 second Prefocused Optical Viewfinder 0.067 second Full Autofocus Live View 2.294 seconds Sony got a different system so maybe they are better: a-550 not tested, 380 is and it was quick! Full Autofocus Wide Area AF 0.204 second Pre-focused 0.107 second Full Autofocus Single Area AF Live View mode 0.196 second "The nice thing about Sony's Live View implementation is that shutter lag in Live View mode is just as fast as when using the optical viewfinder. (In this case, full AF was slightly faster, at 0.196 second.) This is because the second image sensor located in the A380's viewfinder housing alleviates the need for the additional mirror flips required by most other phase-detect Live View implementations. Other phase-detect systems need to drop the mirror, focus, and raise it again to before taking a shot in Live View mode, or employ a slower contrast-detect autofocus method using the main image sensor. Since the image sensor feeding the A380's live preview is located above the mirror, the mirror stays down until the final exposure, exactly as it does in optical viewfinder mode. As noted elsewhere, though, the downside of this type of Live View implementation is lower accuracy for the Live View viewfinder display." Oh, I thought it had some special focus device when mirror was down, not some sort of "preview-sensor" when mirror was up , so no contrast-detect I guess, just fast anyway, but won't work for video on the large sensor =P Olympus E-P2: Multi-area AF mode, Telephoto 0.929 second Rather crap .. Oh well, so sony and panasonic contrast-detect = fast, olympus = rather poor, sony = does live-view without using contrast-detect, everyone else = slow when using contrast-detect but fast otherwise.

05-12-2010, 05:29 AM	#63
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by aliquis Oh well, so sony and panasonic contrast-detect = fast, olympus = rather poor, sony = does live-view without using contrast-detect, everyone else = slow when using contrast-detect but fast otherwise. This means that Sony has no more reason for their second LV sensor design when using their Exmor HD sensor in forthcoming dSLRs. Currently, they are the only SLR manufacturer who has demonstrated that contrast AF with an APS-C sensor can be made fast enough. And if you remember correctly, I've always predicted that contrast AF can be made faster than phase AF. Another factor 2-4 and we're there.

05-12-2010, 07:11 AM	#64
youky63 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Osaka Posts: 143	Originally posted by aliquis Regarding contrast-detect focus speeds: NEX5 focus speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxPgNVDGK8 GF1 focus speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfgtC2kVD1o These 2 videos are a little bit questionable... -First, if we can guess that the Sony is using the 18-55mm (since it's not the pancake), we don't know which lens is used on the Panasonic. It can make a lot of difference since the kit lens of Sony is probably not built to be the faster focusing lens in the world. -Then, look at the setting: the NEX5 is used at f/3.5, while the GF1 at f/5.6. Keep also in mind that Sony is using a little bit bigger sensor, then you can imagine that the DOF is quite different between these 2 systems! So it's not a surprise to see a "faster" GF1. For all these reasons, and as I don't care to know which one is the real faster (since I don't care about EVIL), I would like to congratulate Sony for the development of an innovative and interesting (but still not perfect) new kind of camera.

05-12-2010, 07:30 AM	#65
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by i83N Other possibility that they will make a FF DSLR with moving back and forward sensor to change from FF to APS-C this does nothing to change format., the focus plane and regestry distance remain unchanged regardless of sensor size, if the lens mount stays the same. However a moving (back and forward) sensor does offer some interesting new design concepts. First you could add shake reduction into the 3rd dimension, not just lateral or vertical but aolng the axis of the optical path. second, you could add a lot more in terms of focus adjustment.

05-12-2010, 07:58 AM	#66
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge First you could add shake reduction into the 3rd dimension, not just lateral or vertical but aolng the axis of the optical path. That would be pretty interesting for handheld macro photography!

05-12-2010, 10:45 AM	#67
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by falconeye This means that Sony has no more reason for their second LV sensor design when using their Exmor HD sensor in forthcoming dSLRs. Currently, they are the only SLR manufacturer who has demonstrated that contrast AF with an APS-C sensor can be made fast enough. The speed can only be achieved by specially designed lens - with significant weight reduction of the focusing group, and positioning adjustment. That's why there is no AF available at all for Alpha lens mounted to NEX via adapter!

05-12-2010, 10:51 AM	#68
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by nosnoop The speed can only be achieved by specially designed lens - with significant weight reduction of the focusing group, and positioning adjustment. This statement is based on assumptions which don't hold true in general.

05-12-2010, 11:11 AM	#69
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by aliquis Oh well, so sony and panasonic contrast-detect = fast, olympus = rather poor, sony = does live-view without using contrast-detect, everyone else = slow when using contrast-detect but fast otherwise. NEX-5 Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Wide Angle 0.441 second Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Telephoto 0.444 second Prefocused 0.115 second GF1 Prefocused 0.072 second 14-45mm lens @14mm Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode 0.473 second 14-45mm lens @45mm Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode 0.402 second NX10 Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Wide Angle 0.424 second Full Autofocus, Single-area AF mode Telephoto 0.388 second Prefocused 0.119 second

05-12-2010, 03:54 PM	#70
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by falconeye This statement is based on assumptions which don't hold true in general. Check out dpreview's AF tests on Panasonic vs Olympus. The camera AF design certainly plays a major role. But the lens design made a huge difference as well - as demonstrated by Panasonic camera using Olympus lens. And do note that those Olympus lenses were already designed with Contrast AF in mind!

05-12-2010, 04:11 PM	#71
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by nosnoop Check out dpreview's AF tests on Panasonic vs Olympus. You make a generic assertion ("The speed can only be achieved by specially designed lens"). This cannot be proven by testing existing products. You would have to provide reasons and I would probably challenge them. I don't disagree that existing MILCs require specific lenses for fast AF.

05-13-2010, 04:07 AM	#74
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Well, nothing really substantial in the interview - other than a hint to that the engineers wants to make a mirrorless camera, and why not? Engineers like challenges. But that Pentax (Hoya) has not yet decided if they would make one. This suggests that there are prototypes, but the engineers has not yet got the final word about making it production ready. Hoya has not decided yet if this is the way to go. Can it sell enough to be profitable? And what about lenses? Engineers wants many things, but usually few of those engineering-dreams are made into a saleable product. About "big things this year". The chief over Pentax Europe has confirmed new cameras coming this year, and it seems to be at least three DSLR's so that is quite many. (updates to K-7, K-x and a new model in-between). If Pentax goes mirrorless, then I believe this is the last update for the entry level APS-C DSLR segment for Pentax and the future APS-C will concentrate on enthusiast to pro market, leaving the mirrorless for the entry level to bridge the gap between p&s and DSLR's. And then we have this thing about lenses... Well, since Pentax hasn't released any new K-mount lens for a while (the DFA 100 WR being an exterior update, same optics as before), they could switch to micro K-mount development. This means no more new K-mount lenses from Pentax, only micro K-mount. They doesn't have the r&d and production to support many different lens mounts, not alone. They need partners!

05-13-2010, 04:35 AM	#75
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I don't see any hint that they would launch a "micro K-mount" system. They only said that, in the future, they might do it. They had similar comments about FF... I would be very surprised if the next lenses will be "micro K-mount"; for now Hoya looks determined to complete the K-mount system. Maybe the lack of new K-mount products is due to the 645D?