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05-11-2010, 12:17 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I would "imagine" Wal-mart returns alone would blow out what you imagine.
What do WalMart returns have to do with anything? We were talking about recalled products, and the simple fact is that recalled products from China make up a tiny, tiny, TINY percentage of total imports -- we just hear about them a lot because a) China exports a staggering amount of products, and b) the media focuses on negatives, not positives. ("99.999% of all products from China were just fine" -- while true -- isn't a story that attracts eyeballs and advertiser dollars.)

QuoteQuote:
Also, I suggest you go re-read the guys post regarding Pearl H. He flat said people had the same opinion about Japanese goods prior to it when in fact U.S. imports were very low from Japan prior to WWII. He clearly said "before."
Ever wonder *why* US imports were very low from Japan before WWII? Perhaps it could have something to do with people having the same opinion of Japanese products back then as they do of Chinese products now, re: quality?

That whooshing sound is his point flying over your head while you nitpick.

QuoteQuote:
BTW, nice try cherry picking some examples for Wikipedia. Levi Dockers have gone to shit since they have been made in China. The cotton fabric is crap and there is a lot more variability in a given size than previously. I also suggest you go look at the difference in the socio-economic differences in the Chinese "blue collar" factory work force in comparison to that of the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s Japanese, Hong Kong and Taiwan counterparts.
Funny how my examples are cherry-picking, but yours aren't. It's almost like you aren't interested in debating, simply telling others that they're wrong. You seem to want to put across a rather racist (and utterly incorrect) assumption of a specific nation's abilities regarding providing quality products, without considering for just one moment that you might be wrong.

05-11-2010, 02:11 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
What do WalMart returns have to do with anything? We were talking about recalled products, and the simple fact is that recalled products from China make up a tiny, tiny, TINY percentage of total imports -- we just hear about them a lot because a) China exports a staggering amount of products, and b) the media focuses on negatives, not positives. ("99.999% of all products from China were just fine" -- while true -- isn't a story that attracts eyeballs and advertiser dollars.)



Ever wonder *why* US imports were very low from Japan before WWII? Perhaps it could have something to do with people having the same opinion of Japanese products back then as they do of Chinese products now, re: quality?

That whooshing sound is his point flying over your head while you nitpick.



Funny how my examples are cherry-picking, but yours aren't. It's almost like you aren't interested in debating, simply telling others that they're wrong. You seem to want to put across a rather racist (and utterly incorrect) assumption of a specific nation's abilities regarding providing quality products, without considering for just one moment that you might be wrong.
Oh snap, you are back running your mouth. As far as U.S. imports prior to WWII, only certain things were imported and were often specific items. The Japanese were actually hording scrap metals etc for over a decade up to the War, and were actually a net exporter from the U.S. As far as the Wal-Fart Example, they are one of the biggest importers of "crap" in general at present. Any reputation that Japan had as "bad" had more to do with general cheap items mostly in the 50s and into the 60s. The Japanese camera industry addressed these in the late 50s with the Japanese Camera Inspection Institute that inspected lenses and cameras for quality. This was an independent body the was active through 1989 when it was no longer deemed needed. That's why MIJ Lenses and cameras from 1990 or newer don't have that sticker. The only whooshing sound is the air leak from you empty head.

Last edited by Blue; 05-13-2010 at 09:15 PM.
05-13-2010, 12:00 PM   #33
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China is the worlds leading supplier of home electronics. Most of the worlds computers and home electronics are made in China. China also has a large textile industry so the majority of the clothes and shoes in the world is also "Made in China".

Famous products such as the iPhone and iPod are "Made in China".
Most of the world's hi-fi and television sets, and other electronic entertainment products, are also "Made in China". China is the worlds largest supplier of loudspeakers and amplifiers. Most European brands has manufacturing in China.

The former IBM computers know known as Lenovo are "Made in China".
If you look at the products you have in your home, I believe you will be quite astonished by how many are "Made in China".

If China suddenly would stop producing, then the world would crash. China is dominating the worlds production resources so they have a large impact on the world.
05-13-2010, 12:13 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
The US is just screwed because of Unions. They are one of the reasons our economy is so screwed up. Asiaian company's don't have the problem or the goverment watching over them either.
Funny

05-14-2010, 10:52 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
China is the worlds leading supplier of home electronics. Most of the worlds computers and home electronics are made in China. China also has a large textile industry so the majority of the clothes and shoes in the world is also "Made in China".

Famous products such as the iPhone and iPod are "Made in China".
Most of the world's hi-fi and television sets, and other electronic entertainment products, are also "Made in China". China is the worlds largest supplier of loudspeakers and amplifiers. Most European brands has manufacturing in China.

The former IBM computers know known as Lenovo are "Made in China".
If you look at the products you have in your home, I believe you will be quite astonished by how many are "Made in China".

If China suddenly would stop producing, then the world would crash. China is dominating the worlds production resources so they have a large impact on the world.
Don't forget the flip side, though, which people often do with their big scary China examples. If China DID suddenly stop producing, they instantly get the largest famine known to mankind.

Compare:
QuoteQuote:
China Exports to U.S.

Of the $287.8 billion in American imports from China in 2006, the following product categories had the highest values.

1. Computer accessories, peripherals and parts …US$28.9 billion (10.1% of China to U.S. exports, up 12.4% from 2005)
2. Miscellaneous household goods (e.g. clocks) … $26.5 billion (9.2%, up 17.2%)
3. Toys & sporting goods (e.g. bicycles) … $22.2 billion (7.7%, up 10.2%)
4. Computers … $17.4 billion (6%, up 20.2%)
5. Non-cotton household furnishings & clothing … $14.6 billion (5.1%, up 11.3%)
6. Video equipment (e.g. DVD players) … $14.5 billion (5.0%, up 34.9%)
7. Household furniture … $13.2 billion (4.6%, up 14.3%)
8. Footwear ... $10.7 billion (3.7%, up 11.1%)
9. Cotton household furnishings & clothing … $9.9 billion (3.4%, up 29.6%)
10. Telecommunications equipment … $8.3 billion (3.0%, up 23.7%)

Fastest-Growing Chinese Exports to U.S.

Below are American imports from China in 2006 with the highest percentage sales increases from 2005.


1. Zinc … US$8.6 million (up 616% from 2005)
2. Nickel … $25.9 million (up 273%)
3. Lumber … $74.7 million (up 213%)
4. Specialized mining & oil processing equipment … $96.6 million (up 188%)
5. Oil field drilling equipment & platforms … $1.6 billion (up 182%)


Read more at Suite101: Top Chinese Exports & Imports: Most Popular Products Traded Between China & America Top Chinese Exports & Imports: Most Popular Products Traded Between China & America
VERSUS

QuoteQuote:
China Imports from U.S.

Of the $55.2 billion in American exports to China in 2006, the following product categories had the highest values.

1. Semi-conductors … US$5.9 billion (10.6% of China from U.S. imports, up 74.7% from 2005)
2. Civilian aircraft … $5.3 billion (9.6%, up 39.7%)
3. Soybeans … $2.5 billion (4.6%, up 12.5%)
4. Plastics …. $2.2 billion (3.9%, up 18.8%)
5. Raw cotton … $2.1 billion (3.7%, up 47%)
6. Industrial machines … $1.97 billion (3.6%, up 29%)
7. Copper … $1.86 billion (3.4%, up 99.7%)
8. Computer accessories … $1.82 billion (3.3%, up 27.5%)
9. Aluminum … $1.7 billion (3.1%, up 90.3%)
10. Steelmaking material … $1.69 billion (3.1%, up 11.9%)

Fastest-Growing Chinese Imports from U.S.

Below are American exports to China in 2006 with the highest percentage sales increases from 2005.

1. Unmanufactured tobacco … US$61.4 million (up 3127% from 2005)
2. Corn … $22.6 million (up 2963%)
3. Oilseeds & food oils … $60.7 million (up 970%)
4. Precious metals … $305 million (up 205.2%)
5. Railway transportation equipment … $220 million (up 146%)


Read more at Suite101: Top Chinese Exports & Imports: Most Popular Products Traded Between China & America Top Chinese Exports & Imports: Most Popular Products Traded Between China & America

Their entire economy is based on the idea that we send them a bulk of their raw supplies and a huge portion of their food and they sell developed worlds cheap crap that we have the capacity to make ourselves, but we choose not to. Those trade imbalances are what fuel their entire system. If they cut us off, we're inconvenienced and angry, and they have dead children and riots in the streets.

I'll take my chances with China, they have more to lose than we do.
05-20-2010, 03:26 AM   #36
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Interesting debates, but in all luckily hood we will contiue to buy what our corporate headmasters feed us. There is already a whole industry of people that feed off outsourcing, whether it is manufacturing or servicing. So big that they become multi billion dollar conglomerates, if we had stopped all that all of a sudden, I'm not sure if the economy won't sink into another slump.
05-27-2010, 11:06 AM   #37
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05-27-2010, 11:32 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by zackspeed Quote
Some of those numbers look a little odd to me. Panasonic's, in particular. 0.8 billion in division profits on 1.8 billion in photo sales? Really?? Seems to me the division profits must include more than just photo sales profits, in which case the figure isn't valid for comparison. Makes me wonder how many of the other figures have similar issues.

That said, here's the operating profit listed as a percentage of total photo sales, from highest to lowest, using Photoscala's figures:

1. Panasonic: 44.4%
2. Pentax: 22.2%
3. Olympus: 21.4%
4. Canon: 15.5%
5. Eastman Kodak: 14.3%
6. Nikon: 8.16%
7. Sony: -6.9%
8. Fujifilm: -10.25%
9. Casio: -14.3%
10. Ricoh: -30.0%
*. Samsung: Unknown

I should note, this is all based on the table at the end. I can't read the graphics since Google can't translate them, and I've skipped the text as Google Translate doesn't provide a high enough translation quality to be confident of what I'm reading.

05-28-2010, 11:28 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Some of those numbers look a little odd to me. Panasonic's, in particular. 0.8 billion in division profits on 1.8 billion in photo sales? Really?? Seems to me the division profits must include more than just photo sales profits, in which case the figure isn't valid for comparison. Makes me wonder how many of the other figures have similar issues.

That said, here's the operating profit listed as a percentage of total photo sales, from highest to lowest, using Photoscala's figures:

1. Panasonic: 44.4%
2. Pentax: 22.2%
3. Olympus: 21.4%
4. Canon: 15.5%
5. Eastman Kodak: 14.3%
6. Nikon: 8.16%
7. Sony: -6.9%
8. Fujifilm: -10.25%
9. Casio: -14.3%
10. Ricoh: -30.0%
*. Samsung: Unknown

I should note, this is all based on the table at the end. I can't read the graphics since Google can't translate them, and I've skipped the text as Google Translate doesn't provide a high enough translation quality to be confident of what I'm reading.
Well, its just one perspective of the industry, but the Sony loss seems like not a good thing for their SLR program. Its nice to see the small companies like Panasonic, Olympus and Pentax do so well - even nice to see Kodak hanging in there. May have to do with smaller companies having the ability to respond quicker than larger companies, in general.
05-28-2010, 11:35 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Well, its just one perspective of the industry, but the Sony loss seems like not a good thing for their SLR program. Its nice to see the small companies like Panasonic, Olympus and Pentax do so well - even nice to see Kodak hanging in there. May have to do with smaller companies having the ability to respond quicker than larger companies, in general.
Panasonic a small company? Aren't they japans (worlds?) largest electronic manufacturer. At least they were once....
05-28-2010, 12:18 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Well, its just one perspective of the industry, but the Sony loss seems like not a good thing for their SLR program. Its nice to see the small companies like Panasonic, Olympus and Pentax do so well - even nice to see Kodak hanging in there. May have to do with smaller companies having the ability to respond quicker than larger companies, in general.
It's interesting, certainly. I'd be curious to see how it breaks down once point'n'shoots are removed from the equation, as that's where the market has gotten truly cutthroat.

Kodak's fifth place in terms of percentage profits is perhaps the most surprising, especially considering that not only are they solely in the point'n'shoot market, but they've outsourced manufacture, distribution and some design functions to Flextronics, rather than performing it in-house. One presumes their profits are buoyed both by their patent portfolio (and the licensing revenues it earns for them), and by their non-camera business (kiosks, printers, lab equipment, etc.). I really can't see them making the fifth most profitable solely from sales of low-end point'and-shoots. (Sixteen of their nineteen current models have list prices below $200, and around half are below $150.)

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Panasonic a small company? Aren't they japans (worlds?) largest electronic manufacturer. At least they were once....
Panasonic aren't small by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't believe that's what philbaum was meaning. I think he was saying that they're a relatively smaller player in the camera (and particularly interchangeable lens camera) markets, as implied by the report which Zackspeed linked to.
05-29-2010, 10:18 PM   #42
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So long as Pentax is making an operational profit and one at 22% (thats pretty good), they will continue to exist.
05-30-2010, 01:37 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chwisch87 Quote
So long as Pentax is making an operational profit and one at 22% (thats pretty good), they will continue to exist.
It doesn't mean they won't be sold off though.
05-30-2010, 02:50 PM   #44
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Of course they will be! After all, "SLR sales sharply increased" is indeed a bad omen, Pentax is doomed! The sky is falling, the sky is falling
And... probably they'll be sold to McDonalds (don't ask me how I know!). We'll soon see the McK-7, in a menu with McLimiteds and diet Coke.

Have a nice day (is it day, in Oregon?) and please, don't waste your time thinking about worst (im)possible scenarios
05-30-2010, 03:30 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And... probably they'll be sold to McDonalds (don't ask me how I know!). We'll soon see the McK-7, in a menu with McLimiteds and diet Coke.
Wonder what'll be on the dollar menu? Might have to drive thru and stock up. ;-)
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