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05-30-2010, 08:28 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
36x24, on the other hand, seems almost affordable, almost within reach. So people here keep talking about the price point at which they'll buy: They'll buy if Pentax releases a 36x24 for less than $2000, or for less than $1500, or whatever. If Pentax releases a 36x24 camera for less than $1500—and assuming the reviews indicate that it's a good camera (which I expect would be the case)—heck, I'll give very serious thought to buying one myself.
36x24 is affordable. I can get a Canon 5D for 8500 SEK or something such. Just don't know if I wanna buy one. Could had got a 5D mark II with 24-85/4L for 19500 sek but the lens didn't interested me much.

(Edit: Though in performance I don't know how old FF outperforms a new APS-C, for AF/FPS I guess not at all.)

Can get a used D300 with 18-200 VR for 11000 sek, more advanced camera than D90 (private but new 4000 sek) and 550D (saw it private but new for 4500 sek) but lacks the movie mode and cost much more than the D90. Guess it's worth it for photography though.

Used D300 vs 7D I don't know. The 7D seem somewhat better (atleast sensor) and got the movie mode but there's quite a price difference. Would much rather have a 5D mark II than a 7D but I don't know how to find one used at a decent price.


Last edited by aliquis; 05-30-2010 at 08:39 AM.
05-30-2010, 08:42 AM   #317
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Time will tell, but personally, I think this is VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY. The Sony Alpha A900 right now (5-28-2010) seems to be the cheapest 36x24 camera, and it is just under $2000 for the body only, on Amazon.com. Nikon D700 is selling for about $2300 today, body only; and the Canon 5D MkII can be picked up for about $2500.
For some reason swedish Canon prices seem close to the american now. I've seen you've got things like 500 instant off and such, but without those they are even more expensive.

It's the other way around here:

Canon 5D mark II: 18.499 SEK (incl. 25% VAT. 2500 U.S. dollars = 19 634 Swedish kronor)
Nikon D700: 22.990 SEK (incl. 25% VAT. 2300 U.S. dollars = 18 063 Swedish kronor)
Sony Alpha A900: 24.999 SEK (2000 U.S. dollars = 15 707 Swedish kronor)

So one should only buy Canon in Sweden? =P


Impressive currency conversion by Sony there. US prices mentioned is without VAT aren't they? Don't know why we got so good prices. Unless there's lots to get back from the prices you mentioned.

Last edited by aliquis; 05-30-2010 at 08:54 AM.
05-30-2010, 08:57 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
Please correct me if I am wrong.

One thing that APS-C has over FF is that there is less data to process, therefore faster image processing at lower cost. Look at the Canon 1D MarkIV. Canon dropped to APS-H from FF and that allows the camera to be more responsive.

The 645d shoots at what 1.1fps and is ~$9000. Imagine how expensive it would be if they put a processor in there that allowed it to shoot even 3fps. Pentax has issues enough getting fast image processing throughput. Give me an APS-C that shoots 6fps+, fast AF and great high ISO and you have one very satisfied photographer.
Don't all of Nikon D300, D300s, Canon 7D do that?

I think one just have to need it one want speed or picture quality. Doubt the 5D mark II and such is focused on the sports people. 1D is some sort of middle ground with 1.3x crop and 10 fps. But it got the lower pixel count which comes with being able to shoot at those rates to.
05-30-2010, 01:22 PM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
Sensitivity/iso performance of the technique used had increase by a factor of 40.000 over the years. So claiming that is a little stupid. It's likely to be better, and with same technique used it most likely is. I don't know which sensor get the latest generations of manufacturing facilities and such ..
)
The compared sensors OBVIOUSLY has to be of the same generation and technology. It's a given.

05-31-2010, 01:21 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by PrimeObjectif Quote
Yeah, but a 36x24 sensor would place more demands on those lenses, while an APS-C sensor allows us to enjoy using the "sweet spot" of those lenses.
Well, I happily shoot colour 135 film with any lens I have without worrying about resolution, and I suspect many others do too, so that's not really an issue. Being able to acquire cheap, good wide angles would weigh more heavily, and besides, you can always crop your FF image to the APS-C equivalent if you're really worried about corner sharpness.
05-31-2010, 02:46 AM   #321
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Does anyone remember this discussion previously expanding on this topic?
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/71896-low-noise-be...uals-zero.html

This article too is an interesting and pertinent read: PENTAX DSLRs: Do You Really Need a Full-Frame Camera? Article by: Miserere
05-31-2010, 04:34 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
Which doesn't at all have to be seen as a loss. Different behavior.

Also with a 55 mm f/1.4 lens you will have the performance of a 55 mm f/1.4 lens.

But since it effectively behave like an 85 mm lens you will stand further away from your subject which will increase the DOF.

I haven't got my head around into thinking what's the difference is of said 55 mm lens on aps-c compared to the 85 mm on full frame.

Same lens = Same performance = Different usage.
Equivalent lens = Equivalent usage = ??? performance.
Equivalence means that you can't see a difference in the photo as far as depth of field or field of view. If you take a photo with a 55 mm f1.4 on a crop frame, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from an 85 mm f2 taken on a full frame. That is of course, assuming standing in the same place. When you go to full frame, you lose depth of field, which means that you have to stop down to get equivalent depth of field. This isn't always a problem, but it could be.

Will brought up an article about equivalence and I think it really is a good read. There is not as much difference between formats as is first thought. The biggest differences lie in the fact that camera companies tend to put the best components as far as auto focus systems, etc. in them and photographers shoot with better lenses on them. For a system that costs a lot more, it better function better. However, the 7D may be changing that thought just a little bit.
05-31-2010, 07:34 AM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by PrimeObjectif Quote
Yeah, but a 36x24 sensor would place more demands on those lenses, while an APS-C sensor allows us to enjoy using the "sweet spot" of those lenses.
You do realise that's only if the lens has an image circle that covers 36x24, right?

Other wise, you just get the same problems.

05-31-2010, 07:54 AM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
You do realise that's only if the lens has an image circle that covers 36x24, right?

Other wise, you just get the same problems.
Obviously. :ugh:

I was clearly talking about lenses that cover 35mm. Read the quote above what I wrote.
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