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05-09-2010, 10:50 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by VTPentax Quote
Still scratchin my head about what happened to the K20D I bought? It's a wicked good, rugged built, great performing piece of equipment. A great value billed as a competitor for one of those mid to higher-end Nikon and Canons.
While names have changed I assume it's:

Snappier performance:
K10D -> K20D -> K7

Weather sealed lower end camera:
K100D -> K200D

Entry level:
K-m -> K-x

But I guess you already see it that way. I just don't get it really when people speculated about a "K300D" since it seems like they have diverted the low-end to higher-end somewhat by removing the weather sealing and lower the price more instead.

K10D, K100D = all weather sealed
K20D, K200D, k-m = one smaller and cheaper one added
K7, k-x = middle alternative gone
QuoteOriginally posted by VTPentax Quote
kinda feel like right now I have a camera that if I wanted to trade her in...I would have to look at one of them there Nikon or Cannons.
Obviously K7 was the upgrade for your camera.
* Smaller magnesium&steal alloy body instead of stainless steel & plastic.
Major differences:
* Video
* 77 segment metering (earlier 16)
* 1/8000 shutter speed
Tweaks:
* Greater coverage in viewfinder (100%)
* AF-lamp
* Four channel sensor readout (although it seemed not much improved picture quality? Or?)
* 5.2 fps (earlier 3)
* Upgraded LCD (3.0", 920k)
* New dust removal system
* HDMI output
Software:
* Revised autofocus algorithms
* Distortion and chromatic aberration correction for DA and DFA lenses
* Adjustable dynamic range highlight and shadow correction
* Three-shot in-camera HDR capture
* Electronic level indicator
* Composition adjustment (Uses the SR system to reposition the sensor to fine-tune composition)
Kit-lens:
* Added WR

So obviously there was quite a few upgrades, though maybe not enough to make your K20D out-dated by any means (I assume unless one really need the higher FPS) or valid an upgrade of your system.

I don't see why one would throw out a 0-2 year old camera just to get the newest one just because it's new =P, by the time the K7 upgrade comes I assume it will be similar to what Canon and Nikon will have on offer and that it may be more interesting as an upgrade path for you than the K7 is now.

The D90 isn't weather sealed? The D300s is? The rumor for D90 mention quite a lot of AF-points and 1080p video, I wonder if the K7 upgrade will catch up there.

In Canon camp the 50D look rather outdated imho against the 550D and 7D, faster shooting speed but lacks the video. I think both 50D and 7D is weather sealed. I wonder if the 7D is their new model in that class or if they will release a 60D and what will change from that one and the 7D, faster shooting speed?

05-09-2010, 10:55 AM   #32
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Wtf I should read all posts before I answer it seems

Now, for the K7 upgrade make it better than the 7D/future 60D ;D

And for the K-x upgrade add visible AF-points =p, maybe upgrade video mode, maybe throw back WR to make it stand out against the entry level competition beyond stabilization.
05-09-2010, 11:04 AM   #33
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I can't imaging Pentax having three APS-C cameras, a full frame model, and the 645D at the same time. It just seems very unlikely for Pentax and probably shouldn't be expected. My optimistic future for the SLRs would be something like this:

Model in between K-x and K-7:
K-x 12MP or new Sony 14MP sensor
K200d body
weather sealed
ISO 200-12,800
5fps
1080 video
<100% viewfinder
top LCD
3.2" Canon T2i LCD
Faster AF
Replacement of K-x and K-7
$800-1000

Full Frame model:
Sony 24MP sensor (a900, a850)
New Body
weather sealed
ISO 100-25,600
3fps
1080 video
100% viewfinder
top LCD
3.2" Canon T2i LCD
Improved AF
$1600-$2000
05-09-2010, 11:32 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote

Weather sealed lower end camera:
K100D -> K200D
K100D isn't weather sealed, K200D was. K100D was an entry level camera, K200D really isn't an entry level camera but higher spec'ed camera.

05-09-2010, 12:43 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
But the whole point of these bodies is IMHO compactness, so crazy wide max aperture is not that important. For extreme shallow DOF, use FF. A 50mm f/1.4 on FF is still better than a 25mm f/0.75 on m4/3, and is easier to focus manually than the 25mm on a VF-less body.
What if you don't own a FF camera, and want shallow DOF and better low light performance in a relatively compact camera? Most people don't have the choice of using either their EVIL camera, or a FF.
05-09-2010, 01:15 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Votesh Quote
What if you don't own a FF camera, and want shallow DOF and better low light performance in a relatively compact camera? Most people don't have the choice of using either their EVIL camera, or a FF.
If you're in the market for a Noctilux f/0.95 lens, I'm sure you can afford a couple of FF cameras too (or simply a Leica body to go with the lens)
05-09-2010, 02:13 PM   #37
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Why would they bother with a FF camera? They aren't selling in great quanity's from other camera company's, Pentax don't have the lenses for them. They already said they were not going to make one any time soon. I bet not 5% of Pentax users even want one. I think they need to get what they have now perfected.
05-09-2010, 03:40 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
Why would they bother with a FF camera? They aren't selling in great quanity's from other camera company's, Pentax don't have the lenses for them. They already said they were not going to make one any time soon. I bet not 5% of Pentax users even want one. I think they need to get what they have now perfected.
this is a question i asked myself. the one argument i have seen that makes sense to me is that they may be forced to do it because technology and economics take them there: if there is a drop in sensor prices and "everybody is doing it," pentax may also have to do it to remain a serious player in the japanese market, even, let alone anywhere else.

i believe the traditional wisdom for japanese companies is that if they fail in their home territory, they are not going to make it anywhere else. japan is a market where consumers are known for liking cutting edge items. it seems doubtful to me that pentax can avoid the pressure to go ff once sensor prices drop and still retain its position in japan.

to me that means they have to be looking at and even working on design issues now, but given where they generally price their cameras, they would not necessarily be promising anything publicly until they can afford to bring it to market. just speculating.

05-09-2010, 06:39 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
If you're in the market for a Noctilux f/0.95 lens, I'm sure you can afford a couple of FF cameras too (or simply a Leica body to go with the lens)
Why are most micro four-thirds glass so slow compared to regular four-thirds? Is it because the mount or whatever you people talk about is too small or just because they haven't wanted to make faster ones yet?
05-09-2010, 06:50 PM   #40
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Ok I'm stupid....LOL
05-09-2010, 08:40 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
Why are most micro four-thirds glass so slow compared to regular four-thirds? Is it because the mount or whatever you people talk about is too small or just because they haven't wanted to make faster ones yet?
Generally, the smaller the mount, the easier it is to design faster glass. Look at smaller sensor lenses. They all seem to have faster glass in them.
05-09-2010, 08:55 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
Why would they bother with a FF camera?
To help stop Pentax customers from becoming Nikon or Canon or Sony customers.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
They aren't selling in great quanity's from other camera company's, Pentax don't have the lenses for them. They already said they were not going to make one any time soon. I bet not 5% of Pentax users even want one. I think they need to get what they have now perfected.
To the extent the "numbers" aren't as "great" as APS-C cameras has to do with ONE thing - PRICE. As the price gap narrows, the FF market will grow, and it will continue to narrow, as the sensor fabrication costs continue to shrink and the cost of other camera parts places a floor beneath how far the prices of APS-C cameras can fall. Your "bet" is probably a poor one, especially once "Pentax users" get their hands on one. Aside from a better sensor/image quality and autofocus performance (which represent nothing more than updates to the existing K7, as opposed to a higher-end camera), what else do you think the K7 is missing that represents an upgrade path? The big hole in the Pentax upgrade path continues to be a need for a FF camera.
05-09-2010, 09:56 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
Why are most micro four-thirds glass so slow compared to regular four-thirds? Is it because the mount or whatever you people talk about is too small or just because they haven't wanted to make faster ones yet?
Zooms are slow to keep the weight down, I guess. The Panasonic pancake is 1.7.
05-10-2010, 02:09 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by SCGushue Quote
Yes these may be FA, however, on a digital FF sensor it is questionalble whether any of these optics would be sharp enough to max out the sensors capabilities.

Assuming no ghosting issues, the 43mm and perhaps the 31mm may make the transition. The others, probably not so readily.

Stephen
If my $250 EF 35F2 can make it, I have little doubts lenses such as the 31 would be in troubles...
05-10-2010, 05:02 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nerdold Nerdith Quote
I can't imaging Pentax having three APS-C cameras, a full frame model, and the 645D at the same time. It just seems very unlikely for Pentax and probably shouldn't be expected. My optimistic future for the SLRs would be something like this:
Not 3 APS-C, just 2 APS-C. FF and 645D.
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