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05-13-2010, 02:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
I don't know how the three sensor chips technology work but if the sensor is smaller / you only use the middle part of the lens then the DOF advantage get lost, you still get big and expensive glass and well.. What would the purpose be by then?

The thing which make video people like DSLR video is the possibility of getting short DOF for a small amount of money.


I don't know what the 3000 bucks was about, the price of a dedicated video camera which took camera glass? Or the price of "a full set" of lenses?
the 3k part is existing cameras. For a sony or panasonic with interchangeable lenses, 3,000 is usually the starting point.

05-13-2010, 11:36 PM - 1 Like   #17
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I don't know what kind of volume they would sell, but with the advent of Youtube , Ustream, and places like that - this kind of products continues to get a larger audience.

As the much sought after thin DOF is what drives certain producers to the DSLR market, why not capitalize on that?
Because physics dictates that larger sensors and glass get you there. And with Hoya being an optics company, that should make sense to them.

Get me something like what the Red "scarlett" was originally supposed to be with a Pentax mount and XLR audio jack for under 3k and I'll miss mortgage payments to get one. And lots of other video people will too.

And there are lots of benefits to designing for the pro market, because its mainly about pure image quality and good glass.
No need to deal with auto focus or auto exposure.
Because the kind of person that uses this kind of camera actually prefers NO AUTO.
I'm cool with the MJPEG codec they already use.
Make it simple - manual controls , but impeccable image quality - and you will have the modern film school equivalent of what the K1000 still camera was to my generation.

Red has been trying hard to get there and has made inroads into the cost is no object level of the video market. I would love to see a Pentax equivalent in the midrange where Red hasn't gotten too yet.
05-14-2010, 08:00 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Come on, you are not serious? 5 years? 5 years is an eternity in electronics world!

Though I won't say it is a trivial task, but video camera is not all that different from digital camera! All the basic building blocks are already there. They already have plenty of experience in things like contrast AF. And video codec should not be a problem - there are plenty of 3rd party image processing chip set available or they can build their own.

I don't think there is any "catch up" to do at all. They can easily produce a consumer HD camcorder within a year if they want to. It's just a matter whether they perceive there is market or demand. I personally don't think they would go into the camcorder market, mainly due to the lack of brand name recognition (and not due to the lack of technical know how). They would continue to go with evolving video capability of digital camera route.
You may be underestimating the effort and experience required. I imagine that video camera makers like Sony and Panasonic said the similar things when they moved into the dSLR market - related market, can apply existing knowledge, etc - and look how that's turned out for them. Sony had to buy Konica-Minolta to gain the knowledge they needed, and after years of not making any inroads, Panasonic is finally gaining some traction with their M43 cameras.

Just in the camera world, some might argue that Pentax lags behind Canon and Nikon in AF because they came late to the AF party. Thus, Canon and Nikon are on their x generation AF systems while Pentax is a couple of generations newer and less refined.
05-14-2010, 10:09 AM   #19
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Except that nikon Af came out of a pentax engineer, if the story I read Many times has any truth to it.
Ironic, isn't it?

05-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I imagine that video camera makers like Sony and Panasonic said the similar things when they moved into the dSLR market - related market, can apply existing knowledge, etc - and look how that's turned out for them. Sony had to buy Konica-Minolta to gain the knowledge they needed, and after years of not making any inroads
On the contrary, Sony did extremely well in their first 2 years. Within 2 years of taking over Konica Minolta, Sony hit a home run with A200/300/350, propelling them to a solid #3 spot with 10-15% market share in 2008. It was their blunder in the follow up which cause them to sink last year. Ironically, I believe the fatal flaw was the lack of HD movie in their DSLR line-up.
05-14-2010, 12:21 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
On the contrary, Sony did extremely well in their first 2 years. Within 2 years of taking over Konica Minolta, Sony hit a home run with A200/300/350, propelling them to a solid #3 spot with 10-15% market share in 2008. It was their blunder in the follow up which cause them to sink last year. Ironically, I believe the fatal flaw was the lack of HD movie in their DSLR line-up.
That's the thing - they bought the technology and knowledge that they didn't have from Konica Minolta and combined that with their strong marketing and distribution. Building that kind of knowledge base doesn't come fast or cheap; it takes time and experience. Likewise, it will take Pentax time to grow that kind of deep video knowledge in-house, unless they can partner with someone with that experience (JVC?)
05-14-2010, 12:32 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
That's the thing - they bought the technology and knowledge that they didn't have from Konica Minolta and combined that with their strong marketing and distribution. Building that kind of knowledge base doesn't come fast or cheap; it takes time and experience. Likewise, it will take Pentax time to grow that kind of deep video knowledge in-house, unless they can partner with someone with that experience (JVC?)
But my point was that there was no technical barrier for them to achieve success - and they did achieve a lot in 2 years. It was their marketing decision and their failure to meet consumer expectations of essential DSLR function which let them down!

Pentax has plenty of experience in video area already, and as I said, all the basic building blocks are the same - that's why all digital cameras now have video functions. It may require more experience to produce a full blown professional broadcast HD cam, but for an advance consumer HD cam, there is no technological barrier at all.

Anyways, I don't see them going into camcorder market, as the two markets are destined to merge somehow.
05-14-2010, 03:16 PM   #23
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Anything seems easy until you actually sit down and do it.

05-14-2010, 04:21 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
As yesterday sony announce HD camcorder with interchangeable lenses from there DSLR line via a mount adaptor, can we hope to get something like that from pentax?
Pentax has been making video cameras and camcorders in the long and distant past and that was not a success. Sony on the other hand is firmly established in both worlds, amateur and professional video. Pentax has neither the resources nor the know-how to compete here and I think, it would be very unwise to divert the limited resources of Pentax into a video gamble.


If we are talking about HD camcorders, we are not talking about handholding a toy camera. Any serious film maker needs a robust rig - which makes the form factor of the camera quite unimportant. You need additional mics, you need a rig to focus and zoom, which is an art in itself and you need more batteries.

Current DSLRs are already quite good in terms of HD technical quality, but have other limitations, like the short duration of contoinous filming (due to overheating) or the cam artefacts when panning.

Ben
05-15-2010, 05:48 AM   #25
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Camcorder from Pentax...I would be interested, if

I am split on a HD DSLR. A dedicated HD camcorder is in my opinion the best way to achieve the desired result. Since Flip, Sony and Kodak has pretty much dominated the YouTube pocket camcorder market, and since Canon and Sony have most of the market on camcorders. Pentax could, if they do it right, enter into the HD camcorder market.

I own a MX4 and wished it was a better camcorder. The design is odd, but the ergonomics of it works. That being said, my wish list would be a HD camcorder from Pentax would be a 10+ optical zoom, low light sensitivity, mic jack, hot shoe for led light and some form of gyro stabilization. I have never been a fan of face or smile detection.

Pentax, if you do make a camcorder...keep it simple, most consumers just want to capture memories not struggle with touch screens, hidden menus and pockets full of spare batteries.
05-16-2010, 12:37 AM   #26
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Yep, MX4 was sort weird at first but very efficient design IMO, and it was a LOT smaller than you'd think on pictures. 640x480 at that time (5 years ago or even more?) was great IMO.
05-16-2010, 02:37 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yep, MX4 was sort weird at first but very efficient design IMO, and it was a LOT smaller than you'd think on pictures. 640x480 at that time (5 years ago or even more?) was great IMO.
The MX4 was announced more than 5 years ago, in September 2004. Given how boring most P&S cameras from Pentax has been the last couple of years, it's easy to forget how creative they were back then. Just one month earlier, they had released the Optio X and 750z.
05-16-2010, 04:38 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Pentax has been making video cameras and camcorders in the long and distant past and that was not a success. Sony on the other hand is firmly established in both worlds, amateur and professional video. Pentax has neither the resources nor the know-how to compete here and I think, it would be very unwise to divert the limited resources of Pentax into a video gamble.


If we are talking about HD camcorders, we are not talking about handholding a toy camera. Any serious film maker needs a robust rig - which makes the form factor of the camera quite unimportant. You need additional mics, you need a rig to focus and zoom, which is an art in itself and you need more batteries.

Current DSLRs are already quite good in terms of HD technical quality, but have other limitations, like the short duration of contoinous filming (due to overheating) or the cam artefacts when panning.

Ben

The Pentax Camcorder line was 100% Sony Handycam,only with Pentaxlabel,same game with the Nikon and Yashica Camcorderline.
Pentax will have FullHD and gimics in new DSLR.
Same goal like Nikon,Full HD and more aps-c Hightec

Best Regards,Andy
05-16-2010, 06:53 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by zackspeed Quote
The Pentax Camcorder line was 100% Sony Handycam,only with Pentaxlabel,same game with the Nikon and Yashica Camcorderline.
Pentax will have FullHD and gimics in new DSLR.
Same goal like Nikon,Full HD and more aps-c Hightec

Best Regards,Andy
Ofcourse they will develop the HD feature in their DSLRs - and I guess, that's the development for all vendors. The low end of video making will fall into p&s cameras with movie capability and the midrange and some pro parts will fall to the DSLRs. There will for the foreseeable future be a market for up-market semi-pro HD camcorders for enthusiastic amateurs and there will be a purely pro-market for news, big screen and other broadcasting purposes. But I think, that a large chunk of the low-end and midrange camcorder market will fall prey to p&s and DSLRs respectively.

Thus it won't make much sense for Pentax to develop their own camcorder line, if they can have part of the cake with their still cameras.

Ben
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