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07-31-2010, 11:55 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
There's a heck of a lot of truth in this post. I would add, though, that an EVIL/mirrorless camera for Pentax would also be a me-too product, yet one that Pentax has an excellent shot at hitting a home run with. If they could retain the traditional Pentax strengths (in-body SR, weather sealing) along with a K-mount so that it could use all of the existing compact, high-quality Pentax lenses, then that camera has potential to be a game-changer. Especially if they can figure out how to incorporate a decent VF. As far as I'm concerned, they could use some of the space that a flash would take up, but on-board flash seems to be important for sales in this market.
You have used the right word : Pentax is a game changer with the 645D; if they want to success either in evil or in FF market they must also be a game changer; they already did it with the K10D, isn't it ? So many "pro" features in an amateur camera this was the boost that allowed Pentax to be again a significant actor in the DSLR word.

07-31-2010, 12:20 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
...

Report back once you understand all this, Rawr.

...
OK, I`m definitely not Rawr, so excuse me for hijacking this post, I just couldn't go by.

Reading your post shows you have a good sense of humor, however not everyone is able to enjoy it to the same extend that you do!

We, "the FF crowd", for example can not. From several posts on this forum you can safely guess that we make maybe from 1/5 to 1/6 of all Pentax users. The call for a FF body is in the air since K20D was announced, and it still goes on.

Telling us to stop hoping and go and buy into another brand is nothing short of cruel, since some of us already bought heavily into Pentax and tasted some of the finest glass out there. Giving it up would be a real pain.

What else can you suggest?
07-31-2010, 12:43 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The people I am talking about make their livings shooting photographs. Whether it is senior pictures, family photos, weddings. There is an idea floating around that pros have a huge well of money that they expense out every year to buy new equipment and they are always standing in line for the next full frame camera and wide angle lens.

Sure, there are some people like Jasmine Star and David Ziser who make big money at photography and always have the latest equipment, but in most parts of the country, photographers scrape buy and work really hard to make a living. Every new item they purchase means a little less income and so it has to be considered carefully.

Most full frame cameras are sold to wealthy amateurs who do a little shooting on the side for pay, perhaps, but do not use photography as the source of their income.
Back here in Belgium, Nikon (Belux) 'gave' their top model camera for free to some reputed photographers. Then Nikon could use their name and pictures to publish a very shiny and expensive A3 format brochure, and some 20 m2 roadside posters, to prove they are the best and the 'best' are shooting their gear.
So, when you buy a Nikon, don't forget that you are paying for a rather 'overdone' advertising.
Actually, a considerable part of the 'real' and hard working pro photographers are dragging half a life time just to pay for the glory of Nikon…
Do you understand now why I really do like shooting Pentax?

P.S. I know for certain that at least one of those photographers was shooting Canon, but who cares…
07-31-2010, 09:37 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
Telling us to stop hoping and go and buy into another brand is nothing short of cruel, since some of us already bought heavily into Pentax and tasted some of the finest glass out there. Giving it up would be a real pain.
What else can you suggest?
Unfortunately, facing and accepting the reality can be cruel; but that's life. If there is something out there which meets your need, then it's much better to just get it and move on.

08-01-2010, 11:01 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Unfortunately, facing and accepting the reality can be cruel; but that's life. If there is something out there which meets your need, then it's much better to just get it and move on.
I have plans on buying a ( probably used ) D700 + 24-70 AFS which seems to be a spectacular zoom lens. To fund this I will have to sell bigger part of my Pentax gear. That is, unless Pentax gives us at least an announcement this Photokina.
08-01-2010, 11:51 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Unfortunately, facing and accepting the reality can be cruel; but that's life. If there is something out there which meets your need, then it's much better to just get it and move on.
I don't think it's a good strategy for Pentax to attract only new customers and f*ck the old userbase. So, unless they say otherwise I have good hopes for the future but they indeed need to say what they're up to.
08-01-2010, 05:31 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
Mmm right now a FF Pentax camera would be what a marketing guy call a "me too" product. Meaning not better for sure that high end Nikon and Canon product, not cheaper that the FF Sony - which was not a success anyway. Obviously they made the choice of the 645D instead of the FF - and it looks a good choice; they have changed the game in this segment with a camera at an affordable price compared to Hasselblad and others, with SLR technology. With this camera they can expect taking customers to Nikon and Canon - they would certainly not achieved that with a full frame camera. A 645D for landscape and studio combined with an APS-C for action shots and tele lenses looks good, doesn't it ?
The "me too" product is an APS-C dSLR; everybody's got those in their line-up. The 645D is not an "alternative" to a FF dSLR, it's a completely unrelated market segment. They produced it only because the R&D was pretty much done years ago, not as some kind of grand "strategy" to "outflank" Nikon and Canon. As Pentax bleeds off more and more of its enthusiast user base (be they professional or non-professional) due to their failure to produce a FF dSLR, it doesn't look "good" at all, it looks like a dumb, short-sighted decision.
08-01-2010, 05:37 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I don't think it's a good strategy for Pentax to attract only new customers and f*ck the old userbase. So, unless they say otherwise I have good hopes for the future but they indeed need to say what they're up to.
Agreed, especially when the "old" userbase is bigger, since it is a reflection of when Pentax had a much larger market presence than it has today. Losing the "old" userbase will subtract more Pentax customers than selling cameras to "new" customers will ever add, and that's before you consider how many of the "new" customers will switch to other brands seeking improvements or products that can only be had elsewhere, since (being "new" customers) they'll likely have a much smaller investment in (and therefore much less commitment to) the Pentax system.

08-01-2010, 06:37 PM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
Agreed, especially when the "old" userbase is bigger, since it is a reflection of when Pentax had a much larger market presence than it has today. Losing the "old" userbase will subtract more Pentax customers than selling cameras to "new" customers will ever add, and that's before you consider how many of the "new" customers will switch to other brands seeking improvements or products that can only be had elsewhere, since (being "new" customers) they'll likely have a much smaller investment in (and therefore much less commitment to) the Pentax system.
Pentax doesn't want to disgruntle their user base. At the same time, new users who will actually buy new DA and DFA lenses are needed. The idea that they would make a full frame camera, just so those folks that have old full frame lenses can use them is ludicrous. That would serve no purpose. Part of the point of creating new cameras is to sell lenses (from Hoya's stand point). Particularly so, if they have to undercut the competition's prices.

Last edited by Rondec; 08-02-2010 at 04:03 AM.
08-01-2010, 06:54 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The people I am talking about make their livings shooting photographs. Whether it is senior pictures, family photos, weddings. There is an idea floating around that pros have a huge well of money that they expense out every year to buy new equipment and they are always standing in line for the next full frame camera and wide angle lens.

Sure, there are some people like Jasmine Star and David Ziser who make big money at photography and always have the latest equipment, but in most parts of the country, photographers scrape buy and work really hard to make a living. Every new item they purchase means a little less income and so it has to be considered carefully.

Most full frame cameras are sold to wealthy amateurs who do a little shooting on the side for pay, perhaps, but do not use photography as the source of their income.
Agreed. I have two friends whose only source of income is their photography. They don't have FF cameras and can't afford them. They do both shoot Nikon. I also know a couple of people with Canon FF's. They just have money. And they really don't use their cameras much because they are big, heavy, and cumbersome. Actually one of them just bought and E-P2 after trying mine out. She loves it and is planning on selling the Canon, but it will probably just go in the closet.

Personally I could care less about whether Pentax releases a FF camera or not. If they made something like the E-P2 I would consider it but quite frankly that's such a good camera for me and it takes all my Pentax lenses, so I would only consider it. That's the most pleased I've been with a camera related purchase since I bought that 105mm Kiron lens from my dentist for $50. He'd had thing sitting in around in a drawer in his office for years.

If a FF camera is what you really want and Pentax doesn't make one, you just need to buy a Canon or Nikon. It's pretty simple. I really doubt a large percentage of Pentax buyers care about the sensor size. Most of them are like me, they just want to have some fun taking pictures. The sensor size isn't going to make much difference to them. The funny thing was one of my buddies with the FF camera didn't even know the difference between the Mk5D whatever my K7 as far as the sensor size was concerned. He just knew it cost a lot so it had to be better. Seriously.

I actually now that I think about it I really hope Pentax makes a FF camera so everyone will be happy. I'm not buying one, but I'm sure there will be people who will.
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