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05-28-2010, 07:15 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by smc Quote
Kodak has a FF sensor, although I don't know the details about it and I'm not sure it can handle LiveView etc. Why not follow up the MF 645D with a FF from the same sensor manufacturer?
If you mean the sensor in the M9... no liveview, mediocre high ISO performance, slowish readout... to my mind the newer Sony APS-C sensors (like the rumored A700 replacement's sensor or the one in the NEX cameras, with Pentax applying some of the magic they used on the K-x's sensor) would be a much better choice overall. Lower cost gets passed through to the consumer to a degree and if an DSLR isn't fast these days it's not going to do well. They also wouldn't revert to videoless on their next high-end model.

05-28-2010, 07:54 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
If you mean the sensor in the M9... no liveview, mediocre high ISO performance, slowish readout... to my mind the newer Sony APS-C sensors (like the rumored A700 replacement's sensor or the one in the NEX cameras, with Pentax applying some of the magic they used on the K-x's sensor) would be a much better choice overall.
A K-7 successor with a 15mp sensor with excellent low ISO and K-x-level high ISO quality would be all I could ask for - I don't think my next camera will be a FF anyway (I just want a new back for my DA35 )

But to make that a really interesting alternative for those who are considering FF, you still need to add larger VF magnification and some really fast lenses (28 mm 1.4? An AF remake of the A50/1.2?).
05-28-2010, 08:12 AM   #18
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Blah, Sony Will give nikon 6 to 12 months exclusivity so don't hold your breath for that Sony sensor.
05-28-2010, 08:56 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pablom Quote
aps-c's of the future will surpass the FF's of the past, or so I hear.
And full frames of the future will still surpass the APS-Cs of the future...

05-28-2010, 09:14 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote

To which the Pentax technician said "John, hang on to your seat, there's something coming-up that will give your FF a run for its money".
This is interesting. I remember somewhere recently there is a post of an interview with Pentax Manager/Director who mentioned that this year will be an exciting year for Pentax.

There seems to be something big is going on with Pentax that we the outsiders don't know yet but something big is happening. And they are so excited that can't stop but leaking their excitement through their statements to public.
05-28-2010, 09:23 AM   #21
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I agree that its doubtful that the Pentax Canada person meant the 645D project, unless he or she really only has a vague idea of what they are talking about (always possible). If you're talking pure image resolution, the 645D will more than give the D700 a run for its money, it will hold it down and punch it in the face. In all other regards, though, the D700 will still be better and more usable for weddings, especially low light weddings.

Put me down as another person who thinks they may be referring to this mysterious professional camera that we can keep hearing whispers about. A fully loaded, high performing, professional APS-C camera would give the D700 a run for its money, even for people like me who would prefer if it was full frame.
05-28-2010, 09:36 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Blah, Sony Will give nikon 6 to 12 months exclusivity so don't hold your breath for that Sony sensor.
That's often been the case in the past but deals and relationships change. Sony's sensor line has expanded quite a bit (there are apparently actually several 12mp sensors, and the D5000/D90 sensor may not be the same as the K-x's sensor after all) and I wouldn't be surprised if we see one of these new sensors, perhaps the NEX-5 sensor, in a pentax camera (which would be great, it's like a K-x sensor on steroids) and Sony's rumored A700-replacement-sensor in a D300-style camera all at the same time (which wouldn't stray terribly from past patterns). But Nikon has been increasing their use of non-Sony sensors in the high end to increase exclusivity and it would be interesting to see that creep into the APS-C lineup.
05-28-2010, 09:42 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Maybe he was talking about the 645D
I don't think that is what he is speaking to. "Give a FF a run for the Money..." The 645D does that in heaps. No, I think he is alluding to an entirely new product IMHO.

05-28-2010, 10:49 AM   #24
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I'm already invested in APS-C. I'm well pleased with the format. I don't know that Pentax "needs" FF. What they need is a pro-line camera.
05-28-2010, 10:52 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
That's often been the case in the past but deals and relationships change. Sony's sensor line has expanded quite a bit (there are apparently actually several 12mp sensors, and the D5000/D90 sensor may not be the same as the K-x's sensor after all) and I wouldn't be surprised if we see one of these new sensors, perhaps the NEX-5 sensor, in a pentax camera (which would be great, it's like a K-x sensor on steroids) and Sony's rumored A700-replacement-sensor in a D300-style camera all at the same time (which wouldn't stray terribly from past patterns). But Nikon has been increasing their use of non-Sony sensors in the high end to increase exclusivity and it would be interesting to see that creep into the APS-C lineup.
Exclusivity contracts may be like the tide, one year they may be hot, the next year not so greatly used. I can see why a company like Nikon or any camera mfr would like them, but they are not such a great deal for Sony i'm thinking. Sensors are only the hot product for a relatively short length of time. Its to Sony's advantage to sell as many sensors as they can before they age and end up on the design scrap heap.

I would think that any sensor mfr has to be watching current trends in cameras, and would naturally take note of the new hot item from the Pentax, the Kx. To give Nikon exclusivity contracts that might force Pentax into the hands of other sensor manufacturers goes against their profit totals, and might lose the patronage of a renewed hot camera mfr.

So if Nikon doesn't get an exclusivity contract from Sony on a specific sensor, are they going off to Canon to buy a sensor, lots of luck. Exclusivity contracts are probably a love/hate relationship with sensor manufacturers, sometimes good things, sometimes not a good thing.

Last edited by philbaum; 05-28-2010 at 10:58 AM.
05-28-2010, 10:53 AM   #26
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Backlit CMOS?

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Blah, Sony Will give nikon 6 to 12 months exclusivity so don't hold your breath for that Sony sensor.
Thibs is absolutely correct. Nikon has an exclusivity agreement with Sony. I believe it is for six months. Nikon has been pushing back the release of the FF D700 replacement (the D700s or D800, whatever it will be called). The new Nikon FF is supposed to use the new low cost Sony FF sensor and it was supposed to be released earlier this month. Nikon has been pushing back the release, I believe partly to block other manufacturers from the all important holiday shopping season.

If Pentax were to release a FF camera at the end of this year it wouldn't have a FF sensor from Sony. That would leave Samsung or Kodak sensors.

The rep doesn't mention a Pentax FF camera but hints that it would knock a FF camera's socks off. I'm guessing a backlit APS-C sensor. Sourced from Samsung? I doubt Sony would give Pentax a sensor like this before offering it to Nikon first.

Just my speculation, but a backlit CMOS would have extreme ISO performance. I thought I read somewhere that Backlit sensors also boost tonal range or dynamic range of the sensor, but don't hold me to that.

It's interesting but I still want a true FF K Mount DSLR from Pentax.

P.S. Don't Toshiba and Fuji also make backlit sensors?

Last edited by Angevinn; 05-28-2010 at 11:10 AM.
05-28-2010, 11:05 AM   #27
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I think we can rule out the 645D on the account that it's not reaaaally a camera for weddings...
05-28-2010, 11:25 AM   #28
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The 1 year Nikon Sony sensor exclusivity sounds good but,

The 1 year Nikon Sony sensor exclusivity sounds good but,

Renasas & Fujitsu is the maker of D700 full frame sensor.




>"

Renasas is a company subsidery of NEC now but before it became a part of NEC group , it was a part of Mitsubishi and Nikon also is a part of Mitsubishi group.

And in Japanese , there are many documents cleary stated about the sensors in the D3s , D700 and D3 were Renasas designs and also the chip in these cameras were from Fujitsu but unfortunately, there is no English version of it to show you or any one wondering it.

but in Jpn , it is a well known fact already.

<"

from Pandalee at bottom page one at:


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=35426337


Thom H has an old chart showing sensor manufacturers for Nikon including Nikon themselves:

http://www.bythom.com/dslrcompare.htm



QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Thibs is absolutely correct. Nikon has an exclusivity agreement with Sony. I believe it is for six months. Nikon has been pushing back the release of the FF D700 replacement (the D700s or D800, whatever it will be called). The new Nikon FF is supposed to use the new low cost Sony FF sensor and it was supposed to be released earlier this month. Nikon has been pushing back the release, I believe partly to block other manufacturers from the all important holiday shopping season.

If Pentax were to release a FF camera at the end of this year it wouldn't have a FF sensor from Sony. That would leave Samsung or Kodak sensors.

The rep doesn't mention a Pentax FF camera but hints that it would knock a FF camera's socks off. I'm guessing a backlit APS-C sensor. Sourced from Samsung? I doubt Sony would give Pentax a sensor like this before offering it to Nikon first.

Just my speculation, but a backlit CMOS would have extreme ISO performance. I thought I read somewhere that Backlit sensors also boost tonal range or dynamic range of the sensor, but don't hold me to that.

It's interesting but I still want a true FF K Mount DSLR from Pentax.

P.S. Don't Toshiba and Fuji also make backlit sensors?

Last edited by Samsungian; 05-28-2010 at 11:34 AM.
05-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #29
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This autumn will be make or break for several of us " FF whiners "

Either way I`m really looking forward to it.
05-28-2010, 12:33 PM   #30
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As a fully confirmed FF WHINER, I agree make or break time is approaching sometime in September.

and like the OP it is because I want something to be a superlative pro capable camera that can knock out weddings with grace, aplomb, and strength...

which means that AF, flash, and a double slot must come along too.

I am not sure if I would or could leave my limited jewels, but...

like I said, make or break approaches

A superb APS-C with announced FF will do it

What this "Pentax Canada" person has said was also said prior to the K-7 announcement - and frankly I was underwhelmed by actual release and subsequent samples. I guess you have to build up expectations as part of the process of stimulating interest.
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