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06-07-2010, 02:22 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Why not? K20D body could be big enough to house a FF sensor. Pentax knows a lot of people liked that body size/shape/style. So why not upgrade from the current models to a K20D style body with a FF 21MP sensor?
It's still not a "K20D replacement" in any reasonable understanding of the word "replacement". And while it's possible that they return to a K20D-style body, it won't be identical. The prism housing will most certainly be bigger, and of course they'll include a larger back LCD than the K20D has.

So BS it is

06-07-2010, 02:28 AM   #32
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reps do know

I can confirm that a friend of mine who is a rep for pentax has not got all the details, but did tell me that my K7 will have a replacement by Photokina.
06-07-2010, 03:00 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by siva.ss.kumar Quote
It is all adding up now.
Samsung has a patent for 10.7 MP sensor (almost half of the rumored 21MP)
Some one told that Pentax is coming with a camera that will give FF a run for its money.
Some one is sure that FF is not coming.
So here is my addition to this rumour. Pentax is getting the new sensor from Samsung, some how manages to put 2 of them together in a body big enough (K20D replacement) to hold them to come up with 21MP non-FF DSLR
Are you thinking about this thread that ogl started about a Samsung sensor?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/101400-new-samsung-aps...er-second.html

That was 14.2 Mpixel, 10.7 fps.

/Tommy
06-07-2010, 03:24 AM   #34
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I have no idea whether the rumour is BS or not and whether 21MP is meant for FF or APS-C, but just in case a real 21MP APS-C sensor is coming up, I'd like to preempt the "too many pixels -> noise problem" argument by pointing to this ressource entitled "Contrary to conventional wisdom, higher resolution actually compensates for noise".

06-07-2010, 03:34 AM   #35
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Then what's the point of the extra Mps then if the noise increases proportionally?
If 15Mp is the 'sweet spot' of APS-C sensors as Ned Bunnell asserts, then no extra Mps would given any meaningful benefit in resolution.
06-07-2010, 03:43 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
That's why I love this forum. The rumours take flight like a flock of pigeons before a hyped-up toddler in the park.

Let's say Pentax releases a promotional beer mug, as marketing swag:

[snip]

OP: *weeps*
I have no desire to contribute to a potential 1,000-post rumor thread, but lithos, that was classic--well done!
06-07-2010, 04:17 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Then what's the point of the extra Mps then if the noise increases proportionally?
Did you read the article? Everything being equal, more MP do not imply higher noise provided you are looking at the same image size. Individual pixel noise will rise but that doesn't matter because there are more pixels to average each other out. On the contrary, the noise will look finer-grained.

In what way has Ned Bunnel justified the view of 15MP being a "sweet spot" for APS-C?
06-07-2010, 04:30 AM   #38
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I am looking forward to the first full frame camera available in a myriad of colors. It certainly will knock all of those D3x shooters back a bit!

On a serious note, I don't see the purpose of taking megapixels up to the high levels suggested by the OP, at least not on APS-C. The issue is early diffraction. At present, 7D shooter can't shoot over f4 without diffraction setting in. Obviously this is not an absolute wall, but it does mean that all photos shot with lower end lenses will appear soft.

06-07-2010, 04:38 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
On a serious note, I don't see the purpose of taking megapixels up to the high levels suggested by the OP, at least not on APS-C. The issue is early diffraction. At present, 7D shooter can't shoot over f4 without diffraction setting in. Obviously this is not an absolute wall, but it does mean that all photos shot with lower end lenses will appear soft.
Curious about this statement. Do you have anything to back this up? As I said earlier. A couple of guys I know bought 7D's and both have since sold their bodies. One moved from an XTi and the other from a 40D. Both felt the camera produced 'softer' looking images from their earlier models. One did a second shooter job for me at a wedding and the high ISO shots showed as much noise as the K20D at similar ISO's. I wasn't impressed with the 700 or so shots I'd seen.
06-07-2010, 04:39 AM - 1 Like   #40
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21MP on APS-C is not a bad idea.

even if diffraction starts blurring things past F4, it will still give more details at smaller apertures until hitting the REAL diffraction limit(see photozone tests of same lenses on different MP body's and look at total lines resolved past diffraction "limit")

also they can skip AA filter to get sharper looking images and we can always use smaller apertures(diffraction helps here) when there is a big chance of moire artifacts. and let's not forget that they got all image processing without AA filter figured out with 645D.
06-07-2010, 05:03 AM   #41
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From the same guy "justin23" at dpreview:

Normally, I don't partake in rumour spreading. But I was standing next to the two guys, who seemed to know each other in advance. The only hard evidence, although it requires only half a brain to have worked it out is that a new camera is coming at Photokina. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong about the 21MP count. I actually commented to the CRK rep and the other guy, that it was ridiculous to go to 21MP, but the CRK rep said MP's still sell cameras.

I was also told that CRK may do special imports of the 645D before Pentax in Japan officially releases to other regions.

Oh I can also see why people have gone to the D700. I tried one out and now understand why you'd buy one. I sort of wish I had one, but can't justify it.


"that it was ridiculous to go to 21MP" - they were talking about an aps-c cam
06-07-2010, 05:26 AM   #42
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APS-C camera from Pentax with 21 MP will be the BIG FAILURE.
21 MP at APS-C could be good if it will be SuperCCD sensor. 10.5+10.5 MP. Like Fuji.
The real resolution will be approx. ~ like 15-16 MP Bayer.
06-07-2010, 05:49 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
APS-C camera from Pentax with 21 MP will be the BIG FAILURE.
21 MP at APS-C could be good if it will be SuperCCD sensor. 10.5+10.5 MP. Like Fuji.
The real resolution will be approx. ~ like 15-16 MP Bayer.
Enough Ogl, you're pulling things out of your arse here.
06-07-2010, 05:50 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by eigelb Quote
"that it was ridiculous to go to 21MP" - they were talking about an aps-c cam
No, Justin23 understood they were talking about an aps-c, that's big difference.
Moreover, it may not be true at all.
06-07-2010, 05:50 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Curious about this statement. Do you have anything to back this up? As I said earlier. A couple of guys I know bought 7D's and both have since sold their bodies. One moved from an XTi and the other from a 40D. Both felt the camera produced 'softer' looking images from their earlier models. One did a second shooter job for me at a wedding and the high ISO shots showed as much noise as the K20D at similar ISO's. I wasn't impressed with the 700 or so shots I'd seen.
This was based on something that Klaus said about 15 megapixel cameras (APS-C) hitting diffraction at f5.6. In his lens testing, he did not see improvements in lens sharpness over f5.6 on the 50D and attributed it to diffraction setting in at that point. I can only imagine what he would see with the 7D.

I guess I should say that he didn't see much loss of resolution after f5.6, he just didn't see improvements in lens sharpness after that point and actually a little softening.

Last edited by Rondec; 06-07-2010 at 06:10 AM.
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