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06-10-2010, 08:20 AM   #46
Nubi
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Just noticed. Votesh wondered about the same thing. I ought to give where the credit is due. He will get one too!

06-10-2010, 08:33 AM   #47
emr
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These flower petal pics?

645D???????????????PENTAX

EDIT:

In English:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/medium/645d/feature_1.html

EDIT2:

Nope, the English text talks about 11 mp so it's not the same
06-10-2010, 08:49 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
I hope this will not blow up in my face. I will not be able to send them to all of you, but you two will get one. I will be back in the states in about 4 days. I will send them out then. PM me with your home address please! Can I at least get some reputation points?
yeah sure, when you're back in the states.
06-10-2010, 08:51 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
Nope, the English text talks about 11 mp so it's not the same
Probably a mistype. If really 35mm, it probably is 21mp.



06-10-2010, 09:19 AM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomwil Quote
Probably a mistype. If really 35mm, it probably is 21mp.
But here, the two images aren't identical. Due to parallax, one petal has a bright and the other one has a dark background.

BTW, the 35mm snippet (if from a 21MP camera) would still be 340 pixels wide (easily computed from the overview thumbnail). But the 645D and 35mm snippets are only 118 pixels wide, so we see a 35mm crop at 35% magnification only (1/3 of 100%!)

There is no way a 35% crop can look this soft!

This marketing page is a lie.


I really hate it if marketing employees insult my intelligence. It really really pisses me off !!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by falconeye; 06-10-2010 at 09:26 AM.
06-10-2010, 10:32 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But here, the two images aren't identical. Due to parallax, one petal has a bright and the other one has a dark background.

BTW, the 35mm snippet (if from a 21MP camera) would still be 340 pixels wide (easily computed from the overview thumbnail). But the 645D and 35mm snippets are only 118 pixels wide, so we see a 35mm crop at 35% magnification only (1/3 of 100%!)

There is no way a 35% crop can look this soft!

This marketing page is a lie.


I really hate it if marketing employees insult my intelligence. It really really pisses me off !!!!!!!!!!
OR it could also be proof that Pentax has a really bad FF camera in the works!

I also don't believe the part about "sending its sweet fragrance to viewers."

Though that crop comparison does remind me of the Samsung NX vs. Micro 4/3rds page on the Samsung site, but then they just made it really blocky instead of soft...

Last edited by farfisa; 06-10-2010 at 10:47 AM.
06-10-2010, 01:42 PM   #52
Nubi
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But here, the two images aren't identical. Due to parallax, one petal has a bright and the other one has a dark background.

BTW, the 35mm snippet (if from a 21MP camera) would still be 340 pixels wide (easily computed from the overview thumbnail). But the 645D and 35mm snippets are only 118 pixels wide, so we see a 35mm crop at 35% magnification only (1/3 of 100%!)

There is no way a 35% crop can look this soft!

This marketing page is a lie.


I really hate it if marketing employees insult my intelligence. It really really pisses me off !!!!!!!!!!


I think you are too smart.


This is getting very interesting.



By the way, these are the same pics that I saw. If Falconeye says they are not identical, i guess they are not. They look pretty identical to me, but the background difference I now see also.
06-10-2010, 01:59 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
BTW, the 35mm snippet (if from a 21MP camera) would still be 340 pixels wide (easily computed from the overview thumbnail). But the 645D and 35mm snippets are only 118 pixels wide, so we see a 35mm crop at 35% magnification only (1/3 of 100%!)
But the pink square is too big, I think the part of the flower that is actually shown corresponds to only 9x9 pixels inside the pink square. So if it really is a 11mp camera... it's relatively close to 100%.

06-10-2010, 05:15 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
But the pink square is too big, I think the part of the flower that is actually shown corresponds to only 9x9 pixels inside the pink square. So if it really is a 11mp camera... it's relatively close to 100%.
I agree with the 9x9 pixel square within the 247 pixel wide thumbnail blown to 116x116 pixel. So, with a 11 MP camera, this would be a 78% crop.

But even for a 78% crop it is too soft and the 645D sample is oversharpened too. I.e., the two samples have been treated with entirely different sharpening settings. And no, it is not from the missing AA filter. The 645D has clearly visible sharpening halo artefacts which are totally absent from the "35mm" sample. For 40MP, the crop should be a 44% crop and sharpening artifacts should be completely invisible!

And what 11 MP full frame camera? Scanned analog film?

No, this marketing page is and remains a lie.


EDIT ...

At least the 11 MP could be explainable. If we assume a D700 12.1 MP 3:2 image cropped to 4:3 (= 10.8 MP).

Last edited by falconeye; 06-10-2010 at 06:28 PM.
06-10-2010, 05:50 PM   #55
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There is a Pentax showroom called "Pentax Forum," of all things, where they display 645D in Shinjyuku. I am going there today. Armed with all the info, I am going to interrogate someone there.

Will keep you posted . . . .
06-10-2010, 11:59 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
There is a Pentax showroom called "Pentax Forum," of all things, where they display 645D in Shinjyuku. I am going there today. Armed with all the info, I am going to interrogate someone there.

Will keep you posted . . . .
is that where there used to be a Pentax museum? I was there 10 years ago. Cool exhibition of classic cameras. And the LX I was carrying around my neck got a lot of nods, I really felt like part of a big family there
06-11-2010, 01:19 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
is that where there used to be a Pentax museum? I was there 10 years ago. Cool exhibition of classic cameras. And the LX I was carrying around my neck got a lot of nods, I really felt like part of a big family there
Unfortunately, the museum I believe was closed for good. This is more of a show room and a repair center where you can have the sensor cleaned in 20 minutes, or something like that.


Well, I went there and had a chat with two dudes there for about an hour.

As you know, today was the release day for 645D. I got to play with it. The only thing I can say is "wow!"

I will tell you one thing; when the new the DSLR comes out, many folks here should have no complaints about auto focusing. It is a huge huge leap. I don't AF much, but compared to 645D, K-7 AF is a snail at best.

Ergonomics are just like K-7. I had no problem navigating through the camera from the moment I laid my hands on it.

It is very light, in a sense that I can imagine shooting with this thing without a tripod very frequently. The shutter sound is not as quiet as K-7, but I imagine for what it is, it is very quiet.



Anyhow, going back to falconeye's observation . . . .

One of the dudes admitted that the pic was taken by another manufacture's camera, as many of you have guessed. You guys are very very sharp. So, this was shot by Canon, not Nikon. When i inquired about the filter and sharpening treatment, the guy started laughing, saying that when the brochure came out, they thought the same thing. This is pretty close to pulling a quick one, another dude admitted. But, what he went on to say was even more interesting. He said that this may very well reflect how the company feels about FF. They said that there is no actual plan to release one at the moment.


They did say that they will eventually release it oversea, which will probably not include a rental program when being serviced. If you buy one now, they will not issue you an international warranty.


What I came away from all this is that my LBA has come to an end. I will buy nothing now until I buy 645D, except when I see a killer deal for 645D compatible glasses, I will pull the trigger. I want 35, 75, 120 macro, or something like that. Oh, and a very expensive tripod . . . .


I also got those brochures if anybody want them, although we have now figured out what we wanted, I guess.

Last edited by Nubi; 06-11-2010 at 03:56 PM.
06-11-2010, 03:54 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
Well, I went there and had a chat with two dudes there for about an hour.
Nubi, thanks for sharing your insightful experience. I'm sure you had a great time at Pentax forum

Your AF experience is good to hear. Will be interesting to learn where the progress is coming from (better AF sensor or faster focus motor ...). Did you try it with the new SDM lens or a screw drive lens?

"This is pretty close to pulling a quick one": it means they know that they can't be taken serious, correct?


"this may very well reflect how the company feels about FF. They said that there is no actual plan to release one at the moment.": ok, so still no esteem for FF at some parts of Pentax. But how close are the dudes to Pentax engineering? Would they know if something "is in the bush"?
06-11-2010, 04:07 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
Unfortunately, the museum I believe was closed for good.
Yes, I read about that a while ago.

Thanks for your report, very interesting!

Interesting comment about FF. I'm still wondering if Pentax rather wants to release a second less expensive and perhaps also more lightweight 645-mount body than a 24x36 body. After all, they have a pretty complete (especially including the upcoming wide angle) set of lenses for the 645 system...
06-11-2010, 06:38 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote

I'm still wondering if Pentax rather wants to release a second less expensive and perhaps also more lightweight 645-mount body than a 24x36 body. After all, they have a pretty complete (especially including the upcoming wide angle) set of lenses for the 645 system...
I have thought about this scenario as well, but I dont believe it would be possibly cheaper, even if they use a polycarbonate composite as a cheaper alternative, it wont affect the price dramatically. besides, bringing out a crippled 645D by removing some of the essential features that makes the cam fantastic may not please all of the potential buyers. people could live with a polycarbonate casing and single card slot (which dont cost that much) but which other features that you could simply take away from the camera?
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