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06-07-2010, 03:19 PM   #1
Nubi
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How Rumours Are Born: New 21.1MP FF coming soon?

Alright. This is not a repeat of another thread.


I just wanted to point out something.


I happened to be in Japan at the moment, and just yesterday picked up a brochure for the upcoming 645D. Now, on page 2 of this thing, they show two pictures of flower petals and stamens that are cropped out for comparison. One is of course shot by 645D. The interesting thing about the another picture for comparison is that it says "35mm version (21.1MP). They went on to say that at aperture of f/5.6, 645D renders more 3D like and demonstrates softer expression, with rich gradation and beautiful bokeh, and it is as if to convey the smell of the flower itself, or something to that extent. They then put the asterisk on this paragraph, saying that this is based on their own test shots, as of February 2010.


Now how the heck did they do that? Did they go out and shot some pics with some FF camera by other brands and compared that to 645D?? Seriously doubt that personally.

Or, did they . . . . hm. . . . . I do not want to speculate a whole lot more, but you know where I am going with this.

What the heck. Let me speculate further (I might as well, I guess) that perhaps they already have a beta version of FF ready to make itself known in October???

On the other hand, throughout the page, they keep ragging on how much better in so many darn aspects MF sensors are in comparison to FF, to the point of, you know, oblivion. Well, they better hope so, because 645D is probably at least 3 to 4 times more expensive if i speculate that FF body would cost around 2 to 3 grand.

Also, for the very first time I saw large prints (A0) taken by 645D, and I just about crapped in my pants. It is absolutely breathtaking, and it just is not funny. Looking at those pictures really reminded me that I only live once (in theory).

Since I am on the road, it is hard for me to post the pic, but i will figure out something and post the picture of that page here, as long as I am not violating copy right or some crazy things . . . . .

So, here it is. Another useless thread by me! But in conjunction with this another thread, maybe we are onto something??

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/103935-pma-australia-s...-pentax-5.html

06-07-2010, 04:07 PM   #2
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It is almost certainly shot with a Canon FF camera....
06-07-2010, 04:12 PM   #3
Nubi
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It is almost certainly shot with a Canon FF camera....
Well, it may have been my wishful thinking. But you know, after looking at that 645D pics, I want 645D, not FF.

Just curious; why do you think it was shot by Canon? Not Sony or Nikon? Leica?
06-07-2010, 04:23 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
Well, it may have been my wishful thinking. But you know, after looking at that 645D pics, I want 645D, not FF.

Just curious; why do you think it was shot by Canon? Not Sony or Nikon? Leica?
Probably because there are no Sony, Nikon, or Leica cameras that produce 21mp images.

06-07-2010, 05:01 PM   #5
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Most likely a Canon 5D MK2.
06-07-2010, 05:16 PM   #6
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Alright. After a bit of googling of my own, I agree what you guys are saying here. Since they develop and manufacture their own sensors, it has to be Canon, I suppose.

BUT, even though on the brochure that it does not say Canon (no kidding), it is in a way rather blatant, if you know what I mean.

Maybe Hoya's founder's grandson can shed some light here on this forum, no??
06-07-2010, 06:35 PM   #7
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Uh, I'd say it's pretty standard and customary (especially in Japan) to *not* name a competitor's name/model in such comparative advertisements.
06-07-2010, 07:51 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Probably because there are no Sony, Nikon, or Leica cameras that produce 21mp images.
For reference, the Leica is 37.5mp on a 30x45 sensor, the Nikon24.5-megapixel 35.9 x 24.0mm and the Sony is at 24.6. The Leica is ~ $23K, the Nikon $8K and the Sony at $2k.

That leaves the Canon EOS 1DS Mark III or 5D Mark II which happen to be 21mp. So they either used a Canon or a Pentax prototype.

Edit: There is an unfounded rumor that Pentax maybe getting a sensor from Canon . . .


06-07-2010, 10:28 PM   #9
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Could they have meant that one image was an area equivalent to a full frame sensor with 21.1 MP cropped from a 645D image?
I guess it wouldn't make sense if they were bashing the FF image, but it's what popped into my mind initially. Like a mere comparison of the size of sensors, and their resultant MP differences?
06-07-2010, 11:54 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Uh, I'd say it's pretty standard and customary (especially in Japan) to *not* name a competitor's name/model in such comparative advertisements.
It's also pretty standard to NOT downgrade a product from your own line, but infer that that the comparison is from a competitor's inferior approach.

This is Pentax comparing to another brand.
06-08-2010, 02:33 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's also pretty standard to NOT downgrade a product from your own line, but infer that that the comparison is from a competitor's inferior approach.

This is Pentax comparing to another brand.
You know, what RawheaD says is very true. They do not, if ever, name the competitor that is being compared to. BUT, having said that, it is more than customary to say something like "compared to other brands," or something like that.

I guess we will find out soon enough.
06-08-2010, 02:42 AM   #12
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The rumors of a 21Mpx Pentax are daydreaming from the start.

Pentax doesn't make their sensors, so to look what is possible, you have to look at what is on the market:
  • Samsung : APSC 14Mpx (unlikely as relationship seems bad, see K-x)
  • Sony : APSC 12Mpx (K-x's sensor)
  • Sony : ASPC 14Mpx (Sony's A380/A450/A550)
  • Sony : FF 24Mpx (Sony's A850/900, Nikon D3x)
  • Kodac : FF 18Mpx (CCD, Leica M9)
  • Sigma : Foveon 14Mpx...
  • Ricoh...

Canon never sold a sensor, their APSC crop ratio is different, and I simply don't see what would be their point. Make the competition easier ? The volume increase wouldn't be that much on contrary of Sony that need Nikon to leverage the cost.
06-08-2010, 03:09 AM   #13
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Yep for 21MP to be true, it would mean either new sensor from Samsung (unlikely since Samsung isn't into DSLR anymore) or from Sony (unlikely as well that they would go from 24 to 21Mpix) or Canon selling theirs to Hoya.

Now, 2 points (which are really just thinking out loud):

* There's been rumours of Sony/Canon being interested into Pentax. They may be interested into Pentax as customers, not to buy them. If so, Canon sensor would not contradict anything (but it doesn't mean it is true either).

* Canon selling sensors to Hoya (21Mp sensor which 2 years old already, remember?) would put pressure on both Nikon and Sony (as DSLRs manufacturers) and Sony/Samsung (as sensor manufacturers). So it wouldn't be stupid from them. I highly doubt that though: not very Canon-like, but who knows?

One thing is certain however, unless Kodak comes with a FF CCD which would provide LiveView and Video (720p/1080p) and relatively high frame rate, Kodak just isn't an option.

IMO:
low-end will use Sony sensors when available after the usual Nikon/sony exclusivity.
mid/high will use Samsung upgraded sensors.
hiogh end (FF): Sony (or Canon).
06-08-2010, 03:16 AM   #14
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Yeah, 5D mark II is 21 megapixels D700 is only 12.

So it makes sense for them to compare the picture quality with what would be seen as "the best" for FF to be able to say "look, it's much greater than the competition!"

Edit: Ok, seems like it wasn't "the best", oh well, scrap that then ;D, still a well known camera
06-08-2010, 07:14 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
The rumors of a 21Mpx Pentax are daydreaming from the start.

Pentax doesn't make their sensors, so to look what is possible, you have to look at what is on the market:
  • Samsung : APSC 14Mpx (unlikely as relationship seems bad, see K-x)
  • Sony : APSC 12Mpx (K-x's sensor)
  • Sony : ASPC 14Mpx (Sony's A380/A450/A550)
  • Sony : FF 24Mpx (Sony's A850/900, Nikon D3x)
  • Kodac : FF 18Mpx (CCD, Leica M9)
  • Sigma : Foveon 14Mpx...
  • Ricoh...

Canon never sold a sensor, their APSC crop ratio is different, and I simply don't see what would be their point. Make the competition easier ? The volume increase wouldn't be that much on contrary of Sony that need Nikon to leverage the cost.
Just because Canon hasn't sold a sensor doesn't mean they won't. Besides, Pentax has been in on the design of the sensor for the K20d and K-7. They could be having a sensor made by someone. That could be why it is taking them longer.
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