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06-10-2010, 06:14 PM   #16
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When you put 2 and 2 together, you can see Pentax acts ad hoc, also pre-emptively as market and uncertain circumstances develop and unfold. Business decisions can't be firm and set forever, so although a few years back it was an expensive venture, upcoming FF camera is an absolute necessity in today's environment for Pentax. Why? To ensure peace of mind for users. It won't sell by truckloads, but its mere presence will prevent users from abandoning the platform. And that's the real deal and life saver for companies like Pentax. FF won't create huge new profits, perhaps even nothing substantial, but it will prevent future profits slip away, which is far more important. Users will see that their chosen system is all of a sudden full, complete, they can go way up right to the medium format, or down to the pocket cam, if they want. No need to 'jump ships' because they feel grass is greener over the 'FFence'.
Will it be 21MP or whatever else, doesn't really matter. I'd personally like it with digits swapped, so it reads 12MP, but most outstanding ones.


Last edited by Uluru; 06-10-2010 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Addition
06-10-2010, 06:37 PM   #17
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What would Pentax do about FF lenses? What could they possibly offer if it were to announce a FF camera right now, with release to market in Feb/March. Remember how long it took for them to start selling the DA*60-250 after the press release?

They currently have 7 FF compatible lenses available on the Pentax online store, all primes. Not a single zoom or anything longer than 100mm, and of all those, only one is weather sealed.

I know Sigma and Tamron have quite a few new Pentax mount FF lenses, but I doubt they would just rebadge a bunch of third party lenses to push out their new baby.

Whether the new camera is FF or APS-C doesn't impact me as much as other sorely needed improvements, but if my next camera upgrade means I have to dump my DA lenses, then why should I bother spending any more money on lenses this year and next?

If Pentax is indeed planning on releasing a FF camera, they need to start releasing FF compatible lenses to provide the continuity that even their 40+ year old lenses allow.
06-10-2010, 07:03 PM   #18
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DAs are misunderstood

QuoteOriginally posted by George Lama Quote
What would Pentax do about FF lenses?

Whether the new camera is FF or APS-C doesn't impact me as much as other sorely needed improvements, but if my next camera upgrade means I have to dump my DA lenses, then why should I bother spending any more money on lenses this year and next?

If Pentax is indeed planning on releasing a FF camera, they need to start releasing FF compatible lenses to provide the continuity that even their 40+ year old lenses allow.
I think many of the DA lenses are misunderstood by people. They are optimised optically for digital photography, and Pentax did release APS-C only DSLRs so far. However, many of the DA lenses do cover the 35mm image frame quite well, with little to zero vignetting.
As I said in other forum, FF or thereabouts is a great way to further utilise current DA lenses, and it gets even better with a 1.2x or 1.3x image crop sensor (like top of the line Canons).
A new body won't render DA lenses unusable, just the opposite.

Last edited by Uluru; 06-10-2010 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Spelling
06-10-2010, 07:24 PM   #19
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Don't (some? all?) other brands FF bodies detect when an APS-C lens is mounted and default to "crop mode"? I can't see why Pentax wouldn't implement a similar scheme. Or did I imagine reading that?

Somewhere.

06-10-2010, 07:53 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eigengrau Quote
FA lenses appear to be an endangered species right now. Something seems to be interrupting the supply of both FA 50 and the FA Limited lenses.

. . .
Actually, the FA 50mm f1.4 has been in stock at BH, Adorama and Pentax Imaging for months. The only shortage has been the FA 31mm ltd.

That makes it more of an Urban Legend.
06-10-2010, 08:33 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I think many of the DA lenses are misunderstood by people. They are optimised optically for digital photography, and Pentax did release APS-C only DSLRs so far. However, many of the DA lenses do cover the 35mm image frame quite well, with little to zero vignetting.
As I said in other forum, FF or thereabouts is a great way to further utilise current DA lenses, and it gets even better with a 1.2x or 1.3x image crop sensor (like top of the line Canons).
A new body won't render DA lenses unusable, just the opposite.

I'd like to know which lenses will work because it's my understanding that when used on FF sensors
a) all zoom lenses in their top of the line DA* will be usable due to vignetting
b) all wide zoom lenses in their DA line will be unusable due to vignetting
c) all wide primes will be unusable due to vignetting

If this is the case, that would leave about 5 DA/DA* lenses that are fully compatible plus the 7 FF lenses, for a grand total of about 12. Take into account the considerable number of either downright duplicate lenses or similar models between both lines and you end up with less than 8-9 unique lenses to chose from.

If I'm going to switch to a FF system and my workhorse lenses become useless, then either I stick to what I have until it dies, or start over at great expense.

The smart thing to do before introducing a FF system is to load up the lens lineup with full frame compatible models, particularly replacements of the current DA* zooms, the wide angle zooms, and wide angle primes.
06-10-2010, 08:40 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by George Lama Quote
What would Pentax do about FF lenses? What could they possibly offer if it were to announce a FF camera right now, with release to market in Feb/March. Remember how long it took for them to start selling the DA*60-250 after the press release?

They currently have 7 FF compatible lenses available on the Pentax online store, all primes. Not a single zoom or anything longer than 100mm, and of all those, only one is weather sealed.

I know Sigma and Tamron have quite a few new Pentax mount FF lenses, but I doubt they would just rebadge a bunch of third party lenses to push out their new baby.

Whether the new camera is FF or APS-C doesn't impact me as much as other sorely needed improvements, but if my next camera upgrade means I have to dump my DA lenses, then why should I bother spending any more money on lenses this year and next?

If Pentax is indeed planning on releasing a FF camera, they need to start releasing FF compatible lenses to provide the continuity that even their 40+ year old lenses allow.
FF rumours kill DA sales.

Given the excellent FF prime line-up from Pentax, the real problem is FF zooms. They'd need at least the equivalent of the Nikon 14-24 and 24-70, and likely a 70-300. Then there's a very wide angle solution for all those landscape photographers...

That said, a super high-quality small selection lens solution for FF would keep it top-tier in price and quality without having to have both APS-C and FF lines overlapping. Since some zooms can match primes for IQ, there may be less incentive with FF for prime development. For those looking for FF and lower cost lenses, not going to happen.

A cheaper DA 30-35 prime would kill sales of the the DA 35 Macro and the FA 31, both of which make good $$$ for the bottom line. Pentax would get more mileage from a rebate or price drop across the entire DA Prime line than they would creating an inexpensive prime array. The single biggest threat to Pentax is if it cannibalizes itself.

I believe the D FA Macro 100 WR was released because macro is a hot cultural meme right now.
06-10-2010, 09:17 PM   #23
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In the event Pentax were to bring out a ff body, they could always put some of the FA and FA* lenses back in production. ~ 6 to 8 of those in addition to what they have and they are up to par.

06-10-2010, 10:31 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
In the event Pentax were to bring out a ff body, they could always put some of the FA and FA* lenses back in production. ~ 6 to 8 of those in addition to what they have and they are up to par.
For a Pro body and Pro lenses you would require SDM (hopefully improved). Re-using optical formulas is a given, but the market has moved on. The Nikon 14-24 is benchmark lens to emulate. With Pentax in-body IS (if possible on FF), such a lens would be absolutely killer. It's the kind of combination that could actually help market share, especially if the Ltd Primes are also part of the mix.
06-11-2010, 03:17 AM   #25
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Are you for real?

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
For a Pro body and Pro lenses you would require SDM (hopefully improved). Re-using optical formulas is a given, but the market has moved on. The Nikon 14-24 is benchmark lens to emulate.
14-24, f2.8 G lens? Geez, that one is 1kg alone -- like a K7 plus a prime together -- and at such specs that Pentaxians would start scratching their heads in disbelief, thinking Pentax has finally gone mad. Nikon has a luxury to do that, to boast around and live by the motto: "if it doesn't break your neck, it's not worth having a Nikon badge."

But not Pentax. So instead of Nikonian approach which can afford anything, rather something meaningful more people can enjoy.
06-11-2010, 04:13 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
my experience with respect to rumors, and speculation is that putting 2 and 2 together usually results in any possible answer you want, except 4.
Couldn't agree more, usually the answer of putting two and two together in this way results in the answer being 22.

NaCl(or maybe twotwo)H2O
06-11-2010, 04:32 AM   #27
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I don't see the DA limiteds going away (whatever happened at Pentax Canada's web site). The reality is that even if Pentax releases a full frame camera, the majority of the cameras that they continue to sell will be crop frame. Beyond that, there is nothing wrong with putting an APS-C designed lens on a full frame sensor and then cropping a little off.

My understanding from JSherman's threads about the D700 is that while the 35 f1.8 of Nikon's is designed for a crop framed camera, you can choose to run it on the D700 with an automatic crop or have the camera take a normal photo. There may be some vignetting, but you can always adjust/crop in postprocessing yourself. I personally would prefer that.
06-11-2010, 05:42 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by theperception2008 Quote
I've been thinking the same thing too. The relaunch of the D FA 100 Macro was indeed a surprise. If they were only going to go APS-C only, then it would have made sense to release a DA 100 Macro.
But it was least expensive to simply take the optics from the D FA 100 Macro and put it into a new exterior, to answer the critics about the original D FA 100 Macro being too plastic.

A DA 100 Macro would require a new optical design and this would be expensive.
Do note that Pentax shares the optical design of the D FA 100 Macro with the Tokina 100 Macro. Would Tokina be interrested in an APS-C only macro lens? Doesn't think so.
I think some here reads too much into this D FA 100 announcement.
It is just the old D FA 100 Macro in a new metal exterior with weather sealing!
06-11-2010, 06:14 AM   #29
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Personally, this is the first time that I can remember not being able to wait for October to roll around. Then, hopefully, all are rumors will be laid to rest.
On another note: As for APS-C sensor lenses on FF, is it possible to make an extension tube like device to convert the lens to fill the FF sensor? It may increase the focal length and surely would affect the f/ stops.
06-11-2010, 07:11 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I don't think that's going anywhere, it's here to stay. I'm not one to start or feed rumors usually, but take a look at the new Pentax waterproof remote control at the bottom of this page: 645D : Imaging Systems Division : PENTAX. Yep, it has a zoom function on it too, maybe they're bringing Power Zoom back!
Oh Dear!

It's ironic how the Power Zoom motor has always been so reliable (albeit noisy), but they can't get the SDM right.... (...I can hear the grumbling from here!)

Gene
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