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06-24-2010, 09:25 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
Mirrorless interchangeable lens camera figures for May 2010 have been released for the Japanese market.

Micro 4/3 and Sony NEX cameras, made up 29.9% of sales of all interchangeable lens camera (both DSLR and mirrorless) towards the end of May.
True, but will this have staying power? Obviously a lot of companies think so because everyone and their mother seems to be jumping in, but you have to consider that this is a brand new kind of system. Lots of people already have DSLRs, but no one has had an EVIL until very recently. Your initial market is much bigger, since no one is deciding between the new EVIL camera and keeping the old one. Once the market reaches a more stable position, and the new has worn off, we will have a better idea of just how significant this chunk of the market is. In two years they might end up being just another small niche in the huge category of camera sales.

Also worth noting is whether these sales are cannibalizing P&S sales or DSLR sales. I expect the former - any DSLR owner I know generally wants an EVIL camera as a supplemental travel body, while I know of a few people who have purchased one of the EVIL kits rather than a pricy P&S. EVIL is smaller and sexier than the DSLR, and I think targets the people who want a fancy camera but don't want to be the dork with the huge SLR.

This is important for Pentax because I don't think they would do well having their SLR division chipped away at, but if the sales are coming from P&S that will affect them less than a lot of others.

06-24-2010, 12:13 PM   #122
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I still can't see the point why an m4/3 sensor should be used in a small mirrorless camera. Samsung and Sony has already proven that it is possible to install a much larger sensor in a small mirrorless system without sacrificing ultra-portability. I don't see the camera mount as a problem since what they have to do is to build new small lenses instead, which makes it a more highly profitable market. they can retain the K-mount body if they want instead of using a mount adapter for K-mount lenses. the LTD lens series is a testament that K-mount lenses can be smaller than your average DA and older FA lenses, although there older FA lenses that are really small and portable.

and who knows, we might see a mirrorless FF camera in the near future.
06-24-2010, 04:04 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
Mirrorless interchangeable lens camera figures for May 2010 have been released for the Japanese market.

Micro 4/3 and Sony NEX cameras, made up 29.9% of sales of all interchangeable lens camera (both DSLR and mirrorless) towards the end of May.


QuoteOriginally posted by Eigengrau Quote
True, but will this have staying power? Obviously a lot of companies think so because everyone and their mother seems to be jumping in, but you have to consider that this is a brand new kind of system. Lots of people already have DSLRs, but no one has had an EVIL until very recently. Your initial market is much bigger, since no one is deciding between the new EVIL camera and keeping the old one. Once the market reaches a more stable position, and the new has worn off, we will have a better idea of just how significant this chunk of the market is. In two years they might end up being just another small niche in the huge category of camera sales.
"no one is deciding between the new EVIL camera and keeping the old one"

They are in Japan. Japanese love their tech gear. The Panasonic G1 came out almost TWO years ago. I've replaced my G1 with a G2, and many people in Japan are doing similar things with the Olympus E-P1. I've seen a good second hand (pretty much mint) G1 for less than $200 USD equivalent!!!

I originally bought my G1 for two reasons:
1. A small compact set up when I was traveling in Europe. (I had a G1 + 14-45mm & 45-200mm + an old Minolta 85mm F2, a Pentax K10D with Sigma 10-20mm + a Pentax 50mm F1.4)
2. To use with pretty much ANY film manual focus lens.


There is also a question of price. On Amazon, you can get a Panasonic G2 with14-42mm lens for $799

In Japan, you can get a Panasonic G2 with14-42mm AND 45-200mm lenses for the equivalent of $730 USD!!!!

Ok, we'll see how the market sustains the mirrorless cameras, but I think it will stabilize at least around 25%+
07-13-2010, 08:23 AM   #124
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Don't think Pentax is gonna go for FF anytime soon, but I'm pretty confident to say that Pentax will release a mirrorless camera very soon, probably before the end of the year

07-13-2010, 08:32 AM   #125
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Where did you get your confidence from? :-)
07-13-2010, 08:53 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Where did you get your confidence from? :-)
EVIL was in alfa-testing this spring
07-13-2010, 09:43 AM   #127
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No smilie faces OGL? Then I don't believe you!
07-13-2010, 09:43 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Don't think Pentax is gonna go for FF anytime soon, but I'm pretty confident to say that Pentax will release a mirrorless camera very soon, probably before the end of the year
I have no inside info, but I agree with this, to the degree where I would be mildly surprised if Pentax doesn't come out with some form of mirrorless camera system soon, whereas a Pentax full frame announcement would come as a (pleasant) shock.

07-13-2010, 10:35 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
I have no inside info, but I agree with this, to the degree where I would be mildly surprised if Pentax doesn't come out with some form of mirrorless camera system soon, whereas a Pentax full frame announcement would come as a (pleasant) shock.
I tend to agree. I have an E-P2 and it's a great camera. It appears according to Thom Hogan's site that Nikon is also looking at a mirrorless system.

I'm no expert on this, but the percentage of people on these forums who obsess over gear and full frames, ect is a very small percentage of the actual camera buying public.

If everyone on this forum bought a full frame camera how many sales would that be? I think it would be great if Pentax released one, but I just remain somewhat confused as to what the market is for that format beyond photographers who actually pay their rent and feed their children with their cameras. Or at least that would be the bulk of the market. Face it if you can afford and expensive Pentax full frame camera you would be better off with a Canon, Nikon, or Leica. Much as I love my Pentax, those companies produce better camreas and better lenses (which you really need to take full advantage of full frame). I wouldn't buy one because they are too big, too heavy, and just too expensive. But perhaps I'm a minority opinion on this.

I have no problems with the micro 4/3's format. It is indistinguishable (with a good lens) from my KX and K7 at 11 x 14. The nice thing about the 4/3's format is it crops to 11 x 14 nicely. You only lose a tiny bit off the ends of each frame.

Another big plus is you can mount virtually any lens on the camera with the correct adapter.

Personally I think that you need the viewfinder for bright days, but with the viewfinder I find manually focusing the E-P2 much easier than the KX and as easy if not a bit easier than the K7.

Quite frankly except for the lenses I haven't used my Pentax gear in quite a while since I got the E-P2. It's just much more fun.
07-13-2010, 11:19 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Face it if you can afford and expensive Pentax full frame camera you would be better off with a Canon, Nikon, or Leica.
Perhaps, but maybe Pentax has found a loophole and willl release a cheap full frame camera

/Tommy
07-13-2010, 01:10 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I tend to agree. I have an E-P2 and it's a great camera. It appears according to Thom Hogan's site that Nikon is also looking at a mirrorless system.
There's a better source for the rumor -- Bloomberg directly cited Nikon's president as stating that Nikon may release a mirrorless camera.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-08/nikon-plans-new-concept-slr-camera-...mura-says.html

I'd say if anybody's in the know, it's the president of the company. ;-)
07-13-2010, 02:42 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Where did you get your confidence from? :-)
From my usual source: guessing plus a little bit of friendly talk with friends
07-13-2010, 05:10 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
EVIL was in alfa-testing this spring
07-13-2010, 05:26 PM   #134
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But,thats nice,i see nothing evil
07-13-2010, 05:56 PM - 1 Like   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
These are probably proof-of-concept designs. In some ways it probably represents Pentax exploring the m4/3 specifications and seeing what's possible with it. If you are a company thinking of entering the micro-mount arena you might do some experiments with an existing mount specification to see what's feasible with such short registration distances. If there are no other optical designs dated after November 2008 then it seems unlikely that Pentax is pursuing m4/3 lenses seriously doesn't it?

It may also be an attempt to block other's by patenting the best/better optical designs.
Pentax patented complete IS lenses; both zoom and primes in the late 80's. In addition they developed an APS films slr and presumable lenses for it....
The also developed an FA 18/2.8 - the distrubutors could order it - it had gotten a product number. A 20/1.4 lens; a 300/2; FA* 150/2 and how abot the FA 90/3.5 Macro Limited (went to 1:2 by itself and 1:1 with following close up lens). And lets not forget the two 35/1.4 lenses. And then there are those we do not know about; probably most...
None of these were offered for sale.
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