would you bet on the new camera being revolutionary or playing catch-up?

FullertonImages · 06-27-2010, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Good Lord, someone actually agrees with me.

We should probably go back to back for this one. We're outnumbered...

Eigengrau · 06-27-2010, 09:25 PM

Uh, for those complaining about the lack of pro end equipment, what would you call the 645D? You certainly can pony up the $10k you seem to have laying around and get a camera that Canon and Nikon don't really compete with.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for a Pentax answer to the D700, but they really seem to pick and choose their markets for places that they can compete and turn a profit. They don't really bow to the spec-hungry buyer. This is a pretty wise business move, no matter how it may irk those of us that want more competitive performance. Reminds me of another little company playing against a much bigger competitor *coughAPPLEcough*. Despite years of complaints about them not competing in the mass market bargain basement mid-tower segment, they are doing quite well for themselves. If I were running a business I certainly wouldn't be dying to join in the low-profit, high competition market segments.

Arpe · 06-28-2010, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Good Lord, someone actually agrees with me.

You're going to have to think of something else to say then aren't you?

**Rondec** · 06-28-2010, 03:51 AM

Up till recently, Pentax's niche was cheap -- products just a little cheaper than the competition. Selling that way made them fall farther and farther behind the other companies out there.

The 645D is nice, but it certainly doesn't fit the bill with super fast auto focus and low light capability. It will be a nice landscape/studio camera, could maybe even shoot parts of a wedding with it, but there is a need for something above the K7. Wouldn't necessarily have to be full frame (although it could). Fine to price it in the 2500 dollar range if full frame, a little cheaper if not, with lenses priced comparably.

moray-eel-bite · 06-28-2010, 05:36 AM

Okay, here's my two cents.

Pentax always tries (and usually succeeds) at being different, and they have tacked towards small weather-selaed cameras. My $10.00 says the new body will be full-frame, 20 or so megapixel, EVIL and weather sealed, and like Nikon will accept aps-c lenses by automatically cropping. This will allow users to use their DA lenses, will keep the body very small in comparison, make video easier with less shake and also gets rid of mirror-related issues. As others have said, this will probably cost a bit more, but many of us are willing to pay for these sorts of features.

Cheers.

**Aristophanes** · 06-28-2010, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by moray-eel-bite

Okay, here's my two cents.

Pentax always tries (and usually succeeds) at being different, and they have tacked towards small weather-selaed cameras. My $10.00 says the new body will be full-frame, 20 or so megapixel, EVIL and weather sealed, and like Nikon will accept aps-c lenses by automatically cropping. This will allow users to use their DA lenses, will keep the body very small in comparison, make video easier with less shake and also gets rid of mirror-related issues. As others have said, this will probably cost a bit more, but many of us are willing to pay for these sorts of features.

Cheers.

Any Pentax FF will not be EVIL (not for a year or 3). FF = WR for sure.

An FF body is an easy coup for Pentax. the issue will be zoom lenses for FF, and WA primes.

Gimbal · 06-28-2010, 06:34 AM

While we are dreaming.
Why not a fullframe EVIL camera with a mirror?

emr · 06-28-2010, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Eigengrau

Uh, for those complaining about the lack of pro end equipment, what would you call the 645D? You certainly can pony up the $10k you seem to have laying around and get a camera that Canon and Nikon don't really compete with.

While the 645D probably wipes the floor with many real and hypothetical 35mm FF cameras, I don't think it's reasonable to give purchasing the 645D as the automatic answer whenever somebody wants better than APS-C performance. Many - if not most - members here have already at least a few FF capable lenses, while rather few have even one single 645 lens. So it's not just about the single camera body, but the whole system which is mostly already there excluding the FF camera.

emr · 06-28-2010, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Why not a fullframe EVIL camera with a mirror?

What's an EVIL camera with a mirror - a DSLR?

0144 · 06-28-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by emr

What's an EVIL camera with a mirror - a DSLR?

no, it's one of those new Sony patented Pelex cameras. it has a mirror but no OVF

Eigengrau · 06-28-2010, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by 0144

no, it's one of those new Sony patented Pelex cameras. it has a mirror but no OVF

Sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.

Eigengrau · 06-28-2010, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by emr

While the 645D probably wipes the floor with many real and hypothetical 35mm FF cameras, I don't it's reasonable to give purchasing the 645D as the automatic answer whenever somebody wants better than APS-C performance. Many - if not most - members here have already at least a few FF capable lenses, while rather few have even one single 645 lens. So it's not just about the single camera body, but the whole system which is mostly already there excluding the FF camera.

Once again, I agree that a FF camera and system would be sweet, and could even be a very smart move for Pentax. I'm just saying that we should realize that Pentax HAS just released a pro level camera. Just because it isn't something along the lines of Nikon and Canon doesn't mean that it isn't pro. If people are hoping to complain about Pentax and their attitude towards pros now, they can only rightfully complain about the lack of a 35mm pro level.

**Aristophanes** · 06-28-2010, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by 0144

no, it's one of those new Sony patented Pelex cameras. it has a mirror but no OVF

When you look through the OVF there's a mirror so you can see your eyeball up close.

The Sony engineers have developed a system that does all your composition and subject selection for you. No user effort required at all.

The camera designed to end all camera arguments. Only from Sony.

lurchlarson · 06-28-2010, 07:49 AM

As far as Pentax pro cameras are concerned...Pentax needs to market a camera as a "Pro" camera regardless of if it is FF or not. They could put out a FF APS-C like Olympus has the pro 4/3.
However, if Pentax does market a camera as pro then they have to have the pro-support network like everyone else.

I'm not convinced that Pentax is putting out a FF at Photokina.

unixrevolution · 06-28-2010, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Boris

Why so defeatist a tone? Pentax will do what Pentax will wanna do, period. Not to mention that betting on such things is almost surely loosing money.

Not to mention, in the entry level market, everyone's been playing Catch-up to the K-x.

06-28-2010, 06:51 AM	#53
emr Guest	Originally posted by Eigengrau Uh, for those complaining about the lack of pro end equipment, what would you call the 645D? You certainly can pony up the $10k you seem to have laying around and get a camera that Canon and Nikon don't really compete with. While the 645D probably wipes the floor with many real and hypothetical 35mm FF cameras, I don't think it's reasonable to give purchasing the 645D as the automatic answer whenever somebody wants better than APS-C performance. Many - if not most - members here have already at least a few FF capable lenses, while rather few have even one single 645 lens. So it's not just about the single camera body, but the whole system which is mostly already there excluding the FF camera. Last edited by emr; 06-28-2010 at 07:37 AM.

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06-27-2010, 07:19 PM	#46
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	Originally posted by Wheatfield Good Lord, someone actually agrees with me. We should probably go back to back for this one. We're outnumbered...

06-27-2010, 09:25 PM	#47
Eigengrau Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 250	Uh, for those complaining about the lack of pro end equipment, what would you call the 645D? You certainly can pony up the $10k you seem to have laying around and get a camera that Canon and Nikon don't really compete with. Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for a Pentax answer to the D700, but they really seem to pick and choose their markets for places that they can compete and turn a profit. They don't really bow to the spec-hungry buyer. This is a pretty wise business move, no matter how it may irk those of us that want more competitive performance. Reminds me of another little company playing against a much bigger competitor coughAPPLEcough. Despite years of complaints about them not competing in the mass market bargain basement mid-tower segment, they are doing quite well for themselves. If I were running a business I certainly wouldn't be dying to join in the low-profit, high competition market segments.

06-28-2010, 01:54 AM	#48
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Originally posted by Wheatfield Good Lord, someone actually agrees with me. You're going to have to think of something else to say then aren't you?

06-28-2010, 03:51 AM	#49
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Up till recently, Pentax's niche was cheap -- products just a little cheaper than the competition. Selling that way made them fall farther and farther behind the other companies out there. The 645D is nice, but it certainly doesn't fit the bill with super fast auto focus and low light capability. It will be a nice landscape/studio camera, could maybe even shoot parts of a wedding with it, but there is a need for something above the K7. Wouldn't necessarily have to be full frame (although it could). Fine to price it in the 2500 dollar range if full frame, a little cheaper if not, with lenses priced comparably.

06-28-2010, 05:36 AM	#50
moray-eel-bite Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Oshawa, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 154	Okay, here's my two cents. Pentax always tries (and usually succeeds) at being different, and they have tacked towards small weather-selaed cameras. My $10.00 says the new body will be full-frame, 20 or so megapixel, EVIL and weather sealed, and like Nikon will accept aps-c lenses by automatically cropping. This will allow users to use their DA lenses, will keep the body very small in comparison, make video easier with less shake and also gets rid of mirror-related issues. As others have said, this will probably cost a bit more, but many of us are willing to pay for these sorts of features. Cheers.

06-28-2010, 06:32 AM	#51
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by moray-eel-bite Okay, here's my two cents. Pentax always tries (and usually succeeds) at being different, and they have tacked towards small weather-selaed cameras. My $10.00 says the new body will be full-frame, 20 or so megapixel, EVIL and weather sealed, and like Nikon will accept aps-c lenses by automatically cropping. This will allow users to use their DA lenses, will keep the body very small in comparison, make video easier with less shake and also gets rid of mirror-related issues. As others have said, this will probably cost a bit more, but many of us are willing to pay for these sorts of features. Cheers. Any Pentax FF will not be EVIL (not for a year or 3). FF = WR for sure. An FF body is an easy coup for Pentax. the issue will be zoom lenses for FF, and WA primes.

06-28-2010, 06:34 AM	#52
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	While we are dreaming. Why not a fullframe EVIL camera with a mirror?

06-28-2010, 06:53 AM	#54
emr Guest	Originally posted by Gimbal Why not a fullframe EVIL camera with a mirror? What's an EVIL camera with a mirror - a DSLR?

06-28-2010, 07:31 AM	#55
0144 Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 38	Originally posted by emr What's an EVIL camera with a mirror - a DSLR? no, it's one of those new Sony patented Pelex cameras. it has a mirror but no OVF

06-28-2010, 07:36 AM	#56
Eigengrau Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 250	Originally posted by 0144 no, it's one of those new Sony patented Pelex cameras. it has a mirror but no OVF Sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.

06-28-2010, 07:42 AM	#57
Eigengrau Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 250	Originally posted by emr While the 645D probably wipes the floor with many real and hypothetical 35mm FF cameras, I don't it's reasonable to give purchasing the 645D as the automatic answer whenever somebody wants better than APS-C performance. Many - if not most - members here have already at least a few FF capable lenses, while rather few have even one single 645 lens. So it's not just about the single camera body, but the whole system which is mostly already there excluding the FF camera. Once again, I agree that a FF camera and system would be sweet, and could even be a very smart move for Pentax. I'm just saying that we should realize that Pentax HAS just released a pro level camera. Just because it isn't something along the lines of Nikon and Canon doesn't mean that it isn't pro. If people are hoping to complain about Pentax and their attitude towards pros now, they can only rightfully complain about the lack of a 35mm pro level.

06-28-2010, 07:47 AM	#58
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by 0144 no, it's one of those new Sony patented Pelex cameras. it has a mirror but no OVF When you look through the OVF there's a mirror so you can see your eyeball up close. The Sony engineers have developed a system that does all your composition and subject selection for you. No user effort required at all. The camera designed to end all camera arguments. Only from Sony.

06-28-2010, 07:49 AM	#59
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681	As far as Pentax pro cameras are concerned...Pentax needs to market a camera as a "Pro" camera regardless of if it is FF or not. They could put out a FF APS-C like Olympus has the pro 4/3. However, if Pentax does market a camera as pro then they have to have the pro-support network like everyone else. I'm not convinced that Pentax is putting out a FF at Photokina.

06-28-2010, 08:21 AM	#60
unixrevolution Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Waldorf, MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,861	Originally posted by Boris Why so defeatist a tone? Pentax will do what Pentax will wanna do, period. Not to mention that betting on such things is almost surely loosing money. Not to mention, in the entry level market, everyone's been playing Catch-up to the K-x.