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07-27-2010, 04:19 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Then buy a Leica M8 and a voigtlander 35/1.2, but personnally I think there is a reason why Leica don't sell a 35/1.2. It's simply not needed. When you want shallow DOF, just take a longer lens. I doubt that you need the perpective of a 35mm when the background (and foreground) is all blurry. Half a stop speed compared with 35/1.4 doesn't justify it for low light either.
I think Leica doesn't sell a 35/1.2 because all their lenses have FF coverage (don't they?), and a FF-covering 35/1.2 is a very different beast from an APS-C-covering 35/1.2, which is the FF equivalent of a 55/1.8, i.e. nothing special back in the old days.

(I'm not really in the market for such a lens myself, but every now and then when I shoot with my DA35/2.8 I see a subject which could have used thinner DoF than I get at 2.8. If I win in the lottery, I may consider the FA31 )

07-27-2010, 04:49 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Then buy a Leica M8 and a voigtlander 35/1.2, but personnally I think there is a reason why Leica don't sell a 35/1.2. It's simply not needed. When you want shallow DOF, just take a longer lens. I doubt that you need the perpective of a 35mm when the background (and foreground) is all blurry. Half a stop speed compared with 35/1.4 doesn't justify it for low light either.
It's not just that. The people who can afford and adequately use such expensive glass know the value of composition. Many are pros or semi-pros. An f/1.2 is only sharp in a decreasingly small center area, meaning that all photos will look essentially the same in frame composition. No rule of 2/3.

This limits the creative appeal of the lens for those who need variety in their shooting.

Oh. And Leica have the f/0.95 $10,000 beast. Then there's the m-mount Voigt 1.1 at about half that price.

I am not sure the Pentax world is ready for a 35/1.2 at $4,000!!
07-27-2010, 04:58 AM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
That's the drawback of APS-C DSLRs using the flange distance of FF... (on a smaller mount system, a 35mm/1.2 could be made smaller than the 50mm/1.2).
Then they mess it all up by using a smaller sensor with m43, losing a good 2 stops of DOF equivalence, disappointing many. It is very, very difficult to get a blurred background on m43 with a shorter FL. Not only that, but the hyperfocal distance is more like 20/80.
07-27-2010, 06:34 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's not just that. The people who can afford and adequately use such expensive glass know the value of composition. Many are pros or semi-pros. An f/1.2 is only sharp in a decreasingly small center area, meaning that all photos will look essentially the same in frame composition. No rule of 2/3.

This limits the creative appeal of the lens for those who need variety in their shooting.

Oh. And Leica have the f/0.95 $10,000 beast. Then there's the m-mount Voigt 1.1 at about half that price.

I am not sure the Pentax world is ready for a 35/1.2 at $4,000!!
The voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1,2 costs ca. 850$
Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1,1 ca. 1000$
Voigtländer Nokton classic f/1,4 35mm ca. 580$

07-27-2010, 07:55 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by eigelb Quote
The voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1,2 costs ca. 850$
Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1,1 ca. 1000$
Voigtländer Nokton classic f/1,4 35mm ca. 580$
Right. Thanks for correcting on the pricing.

All MF lenses. Won't sell to the masses enough to warrant a Pentax investment without AF. The distribution channel requires mass sales. Big and heavy, too.

We are talking about a product with extreme marginal appeal.
07-27-2010, 08:21 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
I had a quick look at your profile, if you ever owned it, you don't seem to own it at the moment, have you ever considered buying the 31/1.8 ldt ? This is a fantastic lens, second to none. Sure, it's 1 stop slower that a 35/1.2, but it's separating power for candids and portraits is already plenty enough and it's sharp enough at 1.8 (to me) and astonishingly sharp above.

I have not owned the 31mm limited. I do indeed respect the capability of the lens, but I also have a strong preference for the DA* SDM lenses. I seem to be in a conspicuous minority with that preference, but I have found more magic in those lenses than I found in any other line of the lenses I've used. The logical accounting for that would be I haven't the first clue how to get the best from my other lenses, but the DA* lenses just don't make me work that hard. Perhaps I need to man-up my photo skills and give that 31 more of a run. Thanks for the tip on an available and far less costly optic.
07-27-2010, 11:16 AM   #157
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Sony's 35/1.8

I think it's pretty significant that Sony just decided to join Nikon in offering a €200 entry-level 35/1.8 lens,

NEWS! - Digital Cameras, Digital Imaging, Digital Photography, Digital Scanners

I am not sure what fraction of DSLR buyers never progress beyond the kit zoom; but at least a couple of manufacturers have decided that offering one tempting stepping-stone lens is good business.

During PMA, Imaging Resource had a great interview with a Sigma exec, commenting that even casual shooters were beginning to realize the advantage of wide-aperture primes,

PMA 2010 - Imaging Resource Interview: Kazuto Yamaki, Chief Operating Officer, Sigma

...But Pentax's 31mm FA Limited is just too wildly expensive to be appealing there.
07-27-2010, 02:07 PM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by voxphoto Quote
...But Pentax's 31mm FA Limited is just too wildly expensive to be appealing there.
31 limited is Pentax's 35/1.4 G (Sony's 1000$++ 35mm). What we really need is a 35/2 rehash in DA WR skin for around 300$. That or DA 35 LTD in DA WR skin with a limiter and faster AF.

These new APS-C 35mm/1.8 designs (Nikon, Sony) seems to be cheaper than 35/2 Full Frame designs (Pentax, Canon, Nikon); is this true or is it just marketing talking?

07-29-2010, 06:31 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Why would a Pentax 135mm f/1.8 cost $500 more than a Zeiss 135mm f/1.8? If the market for the 135mm was not viable then Sony/Zeiss would not have bothered to introduce a new 135mm a couple of years ago and they brought back the old Minolta 135mm STF and put it back into production.

The Canon 135L sells for less than $1,000 dollars.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
No idea. But we were able to ask this question (about the viability of a new version of the A* 135/1.8) to Jun Hirakawa (the designer) about ten years ago. He said it wasn't viable cause it would cost at least $1600. That was ten years ago; do the math....
The answer would appear to be relatively simple: a Pentax 135 f 1.8 would cost more because it would be autofocus while the Zeiss is manual focus, i.e., no motors or autofocus algorithms to puzzle over, just nice, simple craftsmanship. In addition, the Zeiss lens has an economy of scale advantage, since it is made in all of the popular mounts and therefore has a much larger customer base.
07-29-2010, 06:41 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Ned Bunnell has said the same thing. The FA Ltd's on a 21MP FF sensor may have "issues" with resolution. The newer DA Ltd's are capable of superb resolution in their own right, and on digital, may outresolve and preserve colour clarity better than their FA predecessors.
Ned peddles this crap as fairly transparent excuse-making for Pentax's failure to make a FF dSLR camera, i.e., "You'll be disappointed with the performance on FF, so buy our Less-Than-Half-Frame cameras for your old glass and accept the propaganda about the inadequacy of your old lenses." Plenty have used old glass with adapters on Canon dSLRs with beautiful results, and the attempted put-down of the idea of using old lenses on a FF dSLR doesn't hold water. Only pixel-peeping measurebaters who shoot pictures of dead branches against bright skies or gray walls and view them at 100% searching for "issues" that will never be seen outside the digital "laboratory" will be "disappointed" at the lack of perfection of older glass on FF, the rest of us will just make great pictures with it, and enjoy the return to a real viewfinder.
07-29-2010, 06:45 PM   #161
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The cold hard fact is...

Pentax will never sell me another piece of glass unless they first start making FF dSLRs.
07-29-2010, 07:49 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
unless they first start making FF dSLRs.
:ugh: We know. You remind us every chance you get.
07-29-2010, 08:01 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Would be nice a remake of SMC Pentax-FA* 600mm F4 ED [IF] or other tele lens that bigger than 300mm
What's wrong with the current 600mm F4? You can still buy them but I only saw two entities offer them new at this time. I'm thinking of getting one.
07-30-2010, 12:07 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
What's wrong with the current 600mm F4? You can still buy them but I only saw two entities offer them new at this time. I'm thinking of getting one.
Nothing wrong; I have had the chance of buying one on ebay this spring at a very decent price; the lens produces very gorgeous shots. The old screwdrive AF is fast and accurate - but noisy. Of course a WR and a ring SDM version would be appreciated; the advantage of the screwdrive is that there is no possible failure
07-30-2010, 01:57 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
What's wrong with the current 600mm F4? You can still buy them but I only saw two entities offer them new at this time. I'm thinking of getting one.
Hey,it´s out of produktion!!!!
Hoya stoped it.
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