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08-06-2010, 10:38 PM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I agree. I would love to see a 135mm f/1.8 more than any other lens they could add.
Right now I think I am hoping that Sigma will step up the the plate. The 135mm f/1.8 on an APS-C is the perfect indoor sports/event lens so WR is not really a huge issue, and the Sigma HSM is noticeable faster. Pentax has an excellent 135mm that they could bring back into production, but I'm still not sold on the SDM.

08-19-2010, 09:46 PM   #227
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tri focal

would it not be nice if they make lenses like Leica Tri Elmar 24-35-50mm f/2.8? it would be nice traveling lens and still a "prime" lens ...
08-20-2010, 01:42 AM   #228
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About lens i think could be a good idea have something similar:
pentax 55-300 WR
pentax DA* 17-70 ED [IF] SDM II
and in general pentax DA* SDM II (second version)
So i hope that the future pentax sdm will be all weather sealed and with an improved SDM.
08-20-2010, 01:55 AM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexfoto Quote
About lens i think could be a good idea have something similar:
pentax 55-300 WR
That lens has been so obviously missing from the lineup for such a long time now that I would be really disappointed if it won't be released this autumn.

The 50-200 is an OK lens, but the 55-300 appears to be much better optically (in addition to the better reach, of course), so the current situation is kind of funny: A lot of K-x dual kits with the 55-300 are sold whereas the default dual kit with the K-7 is with the 50-200 WR.

If the R in K-r indicates WR, a 55-300 WR is even more needed.

08-20-2010, 04:16 AM   #230
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I wonder if Pentax hesitates on a weather sealed 55-330 because they think it would steal sales from the DA * 60-250? I probably wouldn't trust sealing on the 55-300 quite as much due to the amount of extension it gets on its inner barrel when zoomed out all the way. Still, I have to think it would be a big seller.
08-20-2010, 04:24 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I wonder if Pentax hesitates on a weather sealed 55-330 because they think it would steal sales from the DA * 60-250? I probably wouldn't trust sealing on the 55-300 quite as much due to the amount of extension it gets on its inner barrel when zoomed out all the way. Still, I have to think it would be a big seller.
how can be? they are not in same quality/not in same league as i know whether with wr or not.
08-20-2010, 04:26 AM   #232
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The 55-300 WR could also use a shorter minimum focusing distance.
08-20-2010, 04:37 AM   #233
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for future reference: the voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 is a full frame lens.

08-20-2010, 06:08 AM   #234
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... which would be interesting for Pentax only if it came up with a fullframe mirrorless body with a flange distance smaller or identical to the leica M series, am I right?
08-20-2010, 06:47 AM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I wonder if Pentax hesitates on a weather sealed 55-330 because they think it would steal sales from the DA * 60-250? I probably wouldn't trust sealing on the 55-300 quite as much due to the amount of extension it gets on its inner barrel when zoomed out all the way. Still, I have to think it would be a big seller.
Precisely. Any WR would add significant cost. In fact, Pentax went the other way and DA L'd the 55-300 making it an even bigger seller. Price matters and making this lens more expensive would drive down sales, not increase them.
08-20-2010, 07:39 AM   #236
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I usually agree with you, Aristophanes, on market and product strategy. It's clear you've both experience and time for thought.

But here I'll disagree.

A Pentax outdoor/rugged/all-weather strategy would likely be enhanced by the existence of three categories - kit, mid-range, and top of the line.

We have the kit 18-55 and 50-200 in WR and non-WR models, available for inclusion with WR and non-WR bodies. We have the 55-300 in non-WR kit form as well as the non-WR mid-range flavors. I like mine a lot.

So the buyer and user of a WR (or sealed or whatever) body must jump from kit-quality 18-200 WR to, as noted above, a 60-250. That step is very large in both performance and cost terms. But that leap in cost is an especially tough one, one that many will not make. I didn't but that's not real data. And Pentax provides no option.

I'd be pleased to see a 55-300mm WR even if the existing model (not the DA L) is phased out. It's already a great value and I would hope that the higher price of a WR model would not be so substantial to make it a poorer value nor make it prohibitive to a fair-weather user.

That gives us kit-style, kit-priced 18-55, 50-200, and 55-300 glass in non-WR style. Just as today.

And kit-type WR in basic 18-55 and 50-200. But we add a reasonable step to an intermediary-value 55-300mm in just WR. This digs the owner deeper into the Pentax go-anywhere mode without the big price jump.

The decision to acquire the 55-300mm (prior to L) was a commitment to Pentax and is perhaps the first step after the body + 18-55 kit. It shows a commitment to the line and to better images and also shows that the buyer can understand the photo value equation.

Let Sigma/Tamron fill in the intermediary non-WR zoom as they can. They know that well and they've certainly shown no interest in WR glass for Pentax users or for anyone else. So it makes sense for Pentax to take action to preserve and expand the WR theme.

Anyway, I want a 55-300mm WR to complement my 18-55 WR - a lens I keep in my bag for emergencies. Except that the 55-300 would actually get used regardless of the weather!

Thoughts?
08-20-2010, 07:53 AM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by legiman Quote
would it not be nice if they make lenses like Leica Tri Elmar 24-35-50mm f/2.8? it would be nice traveling lens and still a "prime" lens ...
AFAIK Leica made those lenses because of limitations of the rangefinder system (i.e. inability to produce zoom lenses)
08-20-2010, 08:08 AM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
I usually agree with you, Aristophanes, on market and product strategy. It's clear you've both experience and time for thought.

But here I'll disagree.

A Pentax outdoor/rugged/all-weather strategy would likely be enhanced by the existence of three categories - kit, mid-range, and top of the line.

We have the kit 18-55 and 50-200 in WR and non-WR models, available for inclusion with WR and non-WR bodies. We have the 55-300 in non-WR kit form as well as the non-WR mid-range flavors. I like mine a lot.

So the buyer and user of a WR (or sealed or whatever) body must jump from kit-quality 18-200 WR to, as noted above, a 60-250. That step is very large in both performance and cost terms. But that leap in cost is an especially tough one, one that many will not make. I didn't but that's not real data. And Pentax provides no option.

I'd be pleased to see a 55-300mm WR even if the existing model (not the DA L) is phased out. It's already a great value and I would hope that the higher price of a WR model would not be so substantial to make it a poorer value nor make it prohibitive to a fair-weather user.

That gives us kit-style, kit-priced 18-55, 50-200, and 55-300 glass in non-WR style. Just as today.

And kit-type WR in basic 18-55 and 50-200. But we add a reasonable step to an intermediary-value 55-300mm in just WR. This digs the owner deeper into the Pentax go-anywhere mode without the big price jump.

The decision to acquire the 55-300mm (prior to L) was a commitment to Pentax and is perhaps the first step after the body + 18-55 kit. It shows a commitment to the line and to better images and also shows that the buyer can understand the photo value equation.

Let Sigma/Tamron fill in the intermediary non-WR zoom as they can. They know that well and they've certainly shown no interest in WR glass for Pentax users or for anyone else. So it makes sense for Pentax to take action to preserve and expand the WR theme.

Anyway, I want a 55-300mm WR to complement my 18-55 WR - a lens I keep in my bag for emergencies. Except that the 55-300 would actually get used regardless of the weather!

Thoughts?
It sort of makes sense, but Nikon just released their 55-300 VR and it's not WR. I just think the demand for WR is pretty small. That said, the decision to WR the 50-200 is odd considering the much better positioned 55-300.

The essential problem for Pentax is cannibalizing their existing buyers, especially of the better glass like the 60-250. There is market space for a 55-300 WR if they are now only offering a DA L version and a WR version. It's just that no other manufacturer makes this kind of distinction, and Pentax has been maddeningly frustrating with its WR implementation. What might make financial sense is dumping the 50-200 altogether in all its versions.

We'll have to see.
08-21-2010, 11:40 AM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by legiman Quote
would it not be nice if they make lenses like Leica Tri Elmar 24-35-50mm f/2.8? it would be nice traveling lens and still a "prime" lens ...
For the record, the Tri-Elmar are indeed zoom lenses restricted for a camera that cannot accept zooms, not three prime lenses in one body. I feel the Leitz pedigree--and, possibly, the insane price--urges people to imagine them as some magical alchemic lens that's never existed before. It's a zoom lens with which you can't use 26mm or 19mm or 42mm simply because M rangefinders don't have these framelines.

One may be tempted to think that the design allows for a better 16mm, 18mm, 21mm or 24mm, 35mm, 50mm because the design doesn't need to concede for the in-between focal lengths. This may be true for a "Duo-Elmar" where you can concentrate on quality at the extreme focal lengths at the expense of the middle, but since the Tri-Elmar does stop in the middle (so to speak) there is no design benefit to speak of.

I don't know if this misplaced desire for an SLR-mount Tri-Elmar is unique to us Pentaxians, with our fetish for bizarre focal lengths and tiny primes, or if others have turned a design flaw* into a selling point as well. But what's next? Calling for Pentax to release a 50mm f2 that will only focus as close as a metre?

Sorry if this seems harsh, but the reasons I love primes (size, speed, rendition, mechanical simplicity) don't apply to the Tri-Elmar so I feel misinformation spreading every time someone puts it in the same sentence as classic or modern primes, be they Leitz, Asahi, or any others. And yes, I read your well-placed quotation marks, but the desire itself for such a lens speaks to a common misunderstanding of the prime/zoom distinction that is apparently very important to me.

(The bright side of course being that you can take any zoom lens and turn it into a Tri-____ using tape, or nail polish marks, et cetera.)

*For the record, I prefer the rangefinder design to the SLR, but if I want to use a zoom lens--which is rarely--I'm not going to try to shoehorn it onto the wrong type of camera.
08-21-2010, 11:49 AM   #240
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Pablom,

I am embarassed by your brevity.

That's what I get for not finishing the thread.
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