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07-20-2010, 12:41 AM   #31
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An intermediate body between K-x and K-7 certainly make sense.

- 12Mpx, weather sealing, pentamirror, and AF focus indicators in a plastic body would be enough difference between the K7 and Kx. But who knows what they'll put in ?

- An upmarket APSC body above the K7 would a little more tricky since its already 100% viewfinder and magnesium body. Double SD card slot ? Better AF ? Faster FPS ? 1080p 60fps video with AF ? New sensor ? From whom ?

I don't know if the elements above would be enough to justify a ~1500€/$ price point compared to the K7 which is quite cheap at the moment.

We'll know at Photokina I guess.

07-20-2010, 01:23 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
... but, as I mentioned at the time, I suspect apologies to Smithsmyth will be in order.
Even in the unlikely possibility of his news being accurate, the falsified EXIF of a photograph from another(?) member was way out of line and the banning was well deserved IMO.
07-20-2010, 01:42 AM   #33
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I think K-x is only one Pentax cameras with 12 MP sensor.
07-20-2010, 02:47 AM   #34
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think so,too

07-20-2010, 04:26 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
If I don't like and don't want to shoot video with DSLR, what should I do?
It's strange marketing way. How many users make both video and photo with DSLR?
I think - not above 10%.

Just add new video modes is not making new camera.

As for me, it's not interesting at all - APS-C camera higher than K-7. Pentax version of 7D. No, thank you.

if Hoya offers simple upgrade of K-7 it will be failure. IMO.

Faster, more MP and more video would be good, if Pentax has already FF camera. Like N/C/S.


The better way is to produce K-5 with new features in the body of K-7 and with price lower than $800-900.
And offer FF camera under $1500 with a lot of features.

And offer K-x super with some upgrade with price lower than $550. Or offer EVIL instead of lower-end camera.

It would be cool line of cameras.

Not FF - not good sales. IMO.
Who grew out of K-7/K10D/K20D buy D700/A900/Mk II. Or stay with older models. We can see it every day.

Who uses 10-14.6 MP APS-C cameras from Pentax will make upgrade to new APS-C with reluctance.
K10D and K200D were very good machines. A lot of users like K10D/K20D's body more than K-7, and colours of CCD sensor more than fps, video and AF of K-7.

On the other hand, there are very few K-7 at second hand markets now. I don't remember the same situation with other models.

K-5 will find new users...But camera higher than K-7 with APS-C sensor - I don't see huge sales...
For Pentax to sell full frame, I think it will have to be over 2000 dollars. They just wouldn't make that many cameras over all and wouldn't want to lose money on the over all project.

I understand the concern with video, but pretty much all of the high fps sensors out there do video right now. There is no reason that an individual has to use video if they don't want to. Beginning photographers compare specs and if one company doesn't offer certain options (say Sony doesn't offer video in SLRs) they end up losing out.

If Hoya makes a camera "above" the K7, it will be a K7 replacement, launching at 1400 dollars, quite a bit less than the 7D's launch price and coming down from there. I think with the right features, such a camera could and would sell well.

The problem that the K7 ran into was that it was compared to the kx and K20 in high iso. Since it was weak in that area, and more expensive over all, people continued to recommend the K20 and kx over the K7.
07-20-2010, 04:42 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The problem that the K7 ran into was that it was compared to the kx and K20 in high iso. Since it was weak in that area, and more expensive over all, people continued to recommend the K20 and kx over the K7.
There are a lot of problems.

1. Yes. High ISO. K-x is better than K-7, but almost empty inside if we compare with functionality of K-7. It's paradox. Upsetting paradox.
2. K20D and K-7 had/have worse sales than K200D and K-x.
3. K20D has better ergonomics for many users than K-7.
4. K10D had better sales than K20D/K-7 in Japan and world-wide.
5. K-x is rather amateur camera than K200D.
6. SDM needs upgrade.
7. No lenses longer 300 mm.
8. No AF TC.
e t.c.

I can't believe that K-7 with more video modes and fps with almost the same CMOS sensor from Samsung (even if with higher MP) will have good sales.
SAFOX IX+, more fps and more video modes are really MARGINAL upgrade.

How to attract Pentaxians? Rather hard task.

FF can solve the problem.
07-20-2010, 05:02 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
There are a lot of problems.

1. Yes. High ISO. K-x is better than K-7, but almost empty inside if we compare with functionality of K-7. It's paradox. Upsetting paradox.
2. K20D and K-7 had/have worse sales than K200D and K-x.
3. K20D has better ergonomics for many users than K-7.
4. K10D had better sales than K20D/K-7 in Japan and world-wide.
5. K-x is rather amateur camera than K200D.
6. SDM needs upgrade.
7. No lenses longer 300 mm.
8. No AF TC.
e t.c.

I can't believe that K-7 with more video modes and fps with almost the same CMOS sensor from Samsung (even if with higher MP) will have good sales.
SAFOX IX+, more fps and more video modes are really MARGINAL upgrade.

How to attract Pentaxians? Rather hard task.

FF can solve the problem.
Agree with the high-ISO paradox. It probably costs some K-7 sales.

Comparing sales #'s from a camera released pre-financial crisis to one's released after is a dead end. The data points are corrupted for reasons impacting the entire industry and all consumer retail products in particular.
07-20-2010, 05:18 AM   #38
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Honestly, the K-x is nearly perfect. The only thing that I would like to see is the remote shutter jack back, a mic jack, and the battery grip & weather sealing I lost giving up the K200D.

07-20-2010, 05:35 AM   #39
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The problem is the K-7 and its class of cameras are going to become an increasingly challenging segment to market. Primarily this is because the K-7 already has many pro features but rounding it out will cost money.

The K-7, D300s and 7D all suffer from having similar specifications to the lower-priced FFs - bar the odd fps here or there. This entire segment will have to come down in price quite soon as the FFs gently make their way down the price brackets towards them. You've probably got one, maybe, two generations of >£1K APS-C DSLRS left. It's a difficult balancing act between marketable features and a marketable price.

Pentax probably has more room to maneuver than the other main manufacturers because elements of it's system are comparatively archaic. For example for Pentax to overhaul it's AF is something it has to do anyway so to invest a small amount more to get 'class-leading' in this area (or close to it) is money well spent - for Canon and Nikon who already have excellent reputations for AF making an improvement will cost them proportionately more (if that makes sense).

Essentially an upgraded K-7 could look like:

- New APS-C sensor
- Brand new AF system
increased fps to say 6.5 or thereabouts
- Increased flash sync to 1/250 or so

After this you're out of the core photographic specs and into 'extras' such as

- An Super-AMOLED screen
- Improved video (granted that this could be drawn into the core specs for some people but probably not in this segment really)

Sure you can have a myriad of peripheral tweaks here and there but these aren't solid marketing hooks to my mind.

Pentax has a few interesting patents like in-OVF-EVF etc but these are currently just patents.
07-20-2010, 06:43 AM   #40
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The probability of Samsung sensor in K-5 is ~ 70%.
07-20-2010, 06:45 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote


Essentially an upgraded K-7 could look like:

- New APS-C sensor
- Brand new AF system
increased fps to say 6.5 or thereabouts
- Increased flash sync to 1/250 or so

After this you're out of the core photographic specs and into 'extras' such as

- An Super-AMOLED screen
- Improved video (granted that this could be drawn into the core specs for some people but probably not in this segment really)
It's extensive development. I don't care about 1/250, 6.5 fps and video AT ALL. Even super AMOLED screen is just good thing and not something outstanding..

It's not what we need to make good photos.
07-20-2010, 06:46 AM   #42
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There are indeed new cameras coming, but names are tentative until release.
Pentax could call the K-7 replacement/upgrade for K-3 and then a K-5 fits perfect.
K-3, K-5, K-x...

Or the new upgrade to the K-7 could be called K-5, but then the new in-between can't be called K-7 because that already exist. So what to name it? K-10?

But K-5, K-10, K-x - is not appealing estethically. 10 is X, capital x, in roman numbers. 'x' - lower caps x - is too close to capital X.

Or why not call them K-John, K-George, K-Paul and everyone would have a laugh!
Or K-Billy, K-Bob, K-Roger... Personally I would wote for K-Sarah, K-Denise and K-Isabel
07-20-2010, 06:48 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote


Pentax has a few interesting patents like in-OVF-EVF etc but these are currently just patents.
Yes. It's another way - more revolutionary. More intensive.
07-20-2010, 06:55 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote

Or why not call them K-John, K-George, K-Paul and everyone would have a laugh!
Yeah,
K-pop, K-lassic, K-rap etc.
07-20-2010, 06:58 AM   #45
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K-punk. K-jazz
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