Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-30-2010, 05:38 AM   #91
Veteran Member
Christopher M.W.T's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,689
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's already built. People buy FF and there is proven demand right here on the forum. There are a number of Pentaxians who have 2 systems to support FF and APS-C, and with Pentax not in the game, that's $$$ not going to Pentax, but to Nikon or Canon.
Look with all due respects I read your postings and I'm not quite sure if your just an armchair critic or you actually know something solid about the inner workings of Pentax/Hoya?

07-30-2010, 05:53 AM   #92
Pentaxian
TaoMaas's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,176
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's already built. People buy FF and there is proven demand right here on the forum. There are a number of Pentaxians who have 2 systems to support FF and APS-C, and with Pentax not in the game, that's $$$ not going to Pentax, but to Nikon or Canon.
True. But would you care to put your money where your mouth is and compare the number of folks who are running two systems for the sake of FF vs those who only shoot Pentax?
07-30-2010, 06:31 AM   #93
Veteran Member
Mike Cash's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Japan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,952
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Hoya is a deeply indebted company largely based in a deflationary market in Japan. They can't buy Sony's sensor division.

More to this story may be that Sony sees this sensor biz becoming too low margin for them and they cannot compete with the high Yen against other Asian currencies.
Japanese companies have been very enthusiastic adopters of the "let's move our production overseas where it is cheaper" strategy.

I haul "Japanese" products produced in other Asian countries and imported into Japan on practically a daily basis.

All the moaning you can hear in America about manufacturing jobs being shipped overseas just as equally applies here in Japan.
07-30-2010, 07:25 AM   #94
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
True. But would you care to put your money where your mouth is and compare the number of folks who are running two systems for the sake of FF vs those who only shoot Pentax?
All that will matter is if Canikon start putting FF sensors in lower price point bodies. They an do so to compete with each other when other competitive avenues are exhausted and they need to put their retained capital somewhere, or that can do it to pin Pentax and smaller players...or Sony.

At that point, Pentax will have to do the same or give up enormous amounts of gross revenues.

It's very clear the Pentax is hedging its bets with D FA lenses and some DA's that can work on FF.

07-30-2010, 02:22 PM   #95
Veteran Member
creampuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,955
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
If you build it, they will come.
Well by your marketing simplification, it certainly doesn't hold true for Sony.
As a case study, Sony has a slew of APS-C and FF cameras. Yet their FF offerings aren't exactly winning the photographic masses over. The Alpha 850 like its predecessor the Alpha 900 has class-leading resolution, yet is priced lower than the FF competition from Canikon.

So by the flawed assertions you have dogmatically put forward, a cut priced FF camera like the Alpha 850 should have existing Sony APS-C users upgrading in droves, and should have an influx of new users from other makes jumping ship. Yet the reality is the camera is pretty much a commercial flop with sales being pretty dismal.

A good friend of mine is a camera salesman in a major department store and used to promote Sony gear. He says the Sony FF cameras aren't selling in numbers vis-a-vis Canikon despite the lower retail prices and free goodies bundled in. He's got no highfalutin marketing degree to bandy about but he knows well what most customers want... and it's not FF.
07-30-2010, 03:12 PM   #96
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Well by your marketing simplification, it certainly doesn't hold true for Sony.
As a case study, Sony has a slew of APS-C and FF cameras. Yet their FF offerings aren't exactly winning the photographic masses over. The Alpha 850 like its predecessor the Alpha 900 has class-leading resolution, yet is priced lower than the FF competition from Canikon.
Hold on there. The Sony FF's *have* been selling OK, it's their lower end sales that have been a disaster. They are bottom feeders in both reviews and sales, but they've done OK (not great, but not too bad either) in FF sales and better in reviews. A number of prominent names have spoken well of their FF system (Luminous Landscape for one).

Sony made a number of mistakes when they went whole hog into the DSLR camera biz:

1) They got rid of the Minolta brand and nowhere did they trumpet a succession plan. So loyal Minolta Maxxum users were given reason to switch when Sony took their market base for granted.

2) Sony thought selling DSLR's was like selling P&S; you just line them up in a Sony Store and they sell themselves. The more advanced a machine is, the more advanced the sales team needs to be. That was not in place.

3) Lens weaknesses. They went into FF with too few quality lenses. Only now are they starting to flesh out the line. Sony forgot what Minolta knew: the real $$$ is made with glass. Keep in mind that Sony, unlike Nikon, Canon, or Pentax, is not an optics company by lineage.

4) The biggest problem for Sony: too many models!!!! Sony tried to out-bracket Canon and paid dearly. I've yelled at Pentax for needing 3 models, but at one point, Sony had 7! They must be blowing money out their wazoos getting all those models into the channel, not to mention they update their line more often than anyone else. Somewhere deep in Sony there's a make-work project going for their design team. It's not working. Their warranty support network must be a disaster and their inventory control, ouch!

QuoteQuote:
So by the flawed assertions you have dogmatically put forward, a cut priced FF camera like the Alpha 850 should have existing Sony APS-C users upgrading in droves, and should have an influx of new users from other makes jumping ship. Yet the reality is the camera is pretty much a commercial flop with sales being pretty dismal.
It takes time. They made overly bold assertions and did not live up to them, so the media has been filled with stories of Sony's shame.

OTOH, they did start NEX which has gained some traction and can accept FF glass in the future. And they did *not* step down from APS-C with NEX to a smaller sensor. Very interesting.

QuoteQuote:
A good friend of mine is a camera salesman in a major department store and used to promote Sony gear. He says the Sony FF cameras aren't selling in numbers vis-a-vis Canikon despite the lower retail prices and free goodies bundled in. He's got no highfalutin marketing degree to bandy about but he knows well what most customers want... and it's not FF.
If you read any of my past posts you will see I am a Sony-basher. When I did an internship with Nintendo over a decade ago I had to research Sony and I can say the company both amazed and frustrated me. So much talent, exemplary engineering, so many fingers in so many pies, but an absolutely terrible lack of patience and not-invented-here syndrome. Sony sees itself as the Samurai of Japanese companies, but its blade is dull. They have no patience and expect marketing to solve their problems by doing what they did to get the Walkman out the door. Doesn't work now. The market has changed and Sony's sales, distribution, channel, and retail strategies need a rework. My point: this is not simply an issue of Sony's DSLR's, nor of FF vs. APS-C. They have problems all over, from phones to TV's to stereo systems. With the exception of the Playstaion sub-brand, Sony is to a younger generation the Oldsmobile of Japanese companies. No zip, zing, or presence.

A new twist on the Sony FF story is that they may be shifting production in part to choke off Nikon (and maybe Pentax as well). It's always been odd that Sony supplies a competitor with sensors, especially in the high-end. The core of the Thom story is that Nikon also appears stalled with new FF models. Sony's approach may be schadenfreude.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 07-30-2010 at 03:18 PM.
07-30-2010, 09:04 PM   #97
Veteran Member
uccemebug's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 959
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
That's a nonsense over-generalization. There is some phenomenal use of expensive new, hi-fi tech by young people, more than I could ever have dreamed of when I was their age (I am so jealous)....
Yup, there are always some artists who will spring for the higher-end products. But if you want to know what productive amateur photographers are using, look to sources like this:

Flickr: Camera Finder

"Good enough" is not nonsense. "Good enough" sound quality put the MP3 player on top with no real market alternative to speak of--when was the last time you saw someone carrying a CD player or MD? The other side to today's popular "good enough" products, of course, is "fun to use". I've never seen a "FF" camera that was in the slightest engaging.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Baby Boomers only spend more now as they have more disposable income. It has nothing to do with altered cultural attitudes towards photography.
I've been working on a new fashion-related business in Japan for the past two years and can tell you that values have certainly changed. It's a much broader thing than photography that I'm referring to, but in consumer spending all together. Spending on brands, or for the sake of spending itself, has not taken hold with the "Millenials" the way it did with the previous two generations, especially in perpetually-flat Japan. Luxury brands are actively pulling out of Japan and/or closing stores and/or cancelling expansion plans. At the same time dozens of department stores close every year, but dollar stores and inexpensive fashion outlets like Uniqlo and even the railway companies' stores are booming. The most profitable retailer in the country is the East Japan Rail company. The department stores that ruled the roost for two-three generations with high-cost goods are finished.

FWIW, I'm in the midst of raising funding for a business founded on the very premise that people's attitudes are changing for real. 8)
07-30-2010, 09:19 PM   #98
Pentaxian




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Madison, Wis., USA
Posts: 1,510
Aristhophanes, is it that odd that a very large Japanese company the size of Sony allows certain divisions to work with competitors on components?

I'm brimming with ignorance here but I'll assume that not all Japanese businesses, even Sony's size, are entirely vertically integrated. And the rather complex relationships between Japanese businesses (and/or groups of businesses) suggests that they know how to carve out exceptions for niche applications when the economies of scale provide significant benefit, perhaps a significant reduction in COGS (Cost of Goods Sold).

If I had a very small market share, and were competing primarily on marketing and/or addressing a niche, the shared sensor arrangement would benefit me much more than my huge competitor. They can afford to go it alone on an expensive component if they choose. I've no chance to do that. Sharing the cost reduces my COGS much more than my competitors.

As others have noted, most consumers are not watching sensor model numbers or measuring the depth of the electron well. They want a camera that's easy to use (great user interface) and takes great photos. Not marginally better than the next camera on the shelf - just great photos. Whatever that means. And first-time buyers are more comfortable with a name that's a hallmark of quality in consumer electronics (as Sony staff see it).

I've certainly known (and been part of) American companies with component and R&D divisions that were seen as treasonous by the staffs selling finished goods based on those components and that research.

Can you help us understand how that works in modern Japan?

07-31-2010, 12:08 AM   #99
Veteran Member
creampuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,955
Aristophanes, I do agree with you that Sony's DSLR offerings have been a mish-mash attempt to cater to different user segments, unfortunately with little success. As a late entrant in offering DSLRs, they might have believed that they could leverage on their brand recognition and company size to be a force onto the photo enthusiast/serious amateur/pro market. I personally believe they grossly overestimated their own projections with regards to existing PnS user base moving up to DSLRs and attracting new users to buy their DSLRs.

Sony is banking on NEX because their already entrenched PnS users would find the NEX form factor very similar to current PnS while offering an improvement over current PnS image quality. Costs wise, the NEX cameras aren't astronomically high for a PnS user to upgrade to compared to all the bells and whistles of an APS-C and FF camera system. Also the new camera meets head-on to the offerings from Panasonic and Olympus. Whether the NEX mount can accommodate FF is a sideshow in the larger scheme of things. Sony is a global mass market company and it requires volume sellers to boost the bottom line. The NEX seems to be the ticket.
07-31-2010, 03:34 AM   #100
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,679
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Yup, there are always some artists who will spring for the higher-end products. But if you want to know what productive amateur photographers are using, look to sources like this:

Flickr: Camera Finder

"Good enough" is not nonsense. "Good enough" sound quality put the MP3 player on top with no real market alternative to speak of--when was the last time you saw someone carrying a CD player or MD? The other side to today's popular "good enough" products, of course, is "fun to use". I've never seen a "FF" camera that was in the slightest engaging.



I've been working on a new fashion-related business in Japan for the past two years and can tell you that values have certainly changed. It's a much broader thing than photography that I'm referring to, but in consumer spending all together. Spending on brands, or for the sake of spending itself, has not taken hold with the "Millenials" the way it did with the previous two generations, especially in perpetually-flat Japan. Luxury brands are actively pulling out of Japan and/or closing stores and/or cancelling expansion plans. At the same time dozens of department stores close every year, but dollar stores and inexpensive fashion outlets like Uniqlo and even the railway companies' stores are booming. The most profitable retailer in the country is the East Japan Rail company. The department stores that ruled the roost for two-three generations with high-cost goods are finished.

FWIW, I'm in the midst of raising funding for a business founded on the very premise that people's attitudes are changing for real. 8)
First good luck on your new venture.

Also, i have posted this already, but really I appreciate the direction people have taken the topic...I think it's relevant to all of us and helps to look at business from different perspectives even if they are not your idea of right or wrong...it is all only opinion in the end, if it were not we would never have economic problems or booms it would all be flat as everyone would be doing the right thing every time out.

Next was something very interesting in your Flickr link. If ya look it's interesting that the K-x & K7 are essentially dead even and honestly not near as many images posted as I would have thought given the free nature of Flickr, and before anyone whines about it is too "haaaard to figure out" or "....the user interface is connnnnfuuuuusing..." this is not about that because that cancels out as everyone uses the same UI and really it's not germane to this topic or their numbers though it could keep them lower it won't affect the . Fact is there are not that many people using camera and more interesting is the numbers are even, neither camera appears to be more popular or prevalent. So, the idea that the better IQ trumps the better over all feature set is kinda killed off right there within HoyaTax's own house...at least that is how I see the issue.

Actually I would have expected the K-x to have a significant lead given the sales numbers reported. I wonder if many of those younger buyers these were targeted toward bought them, used them for a month and now those bodies are in a shoebox in a closet somewhere...a real shame for sure as it's a fine bit of hardware, especially for beginners or even as a special use body.

Given this I can only wonder what the numbers would be if there was a FF body released by HoyaTax. Where I was once in the FF must have camp, I no longer am...I want a refined K-7 it's that easy...and I wonder if HoyaTax might learn something from what Amazon just did with the Kindle 2, they dropped the price to $189 from around $300 and tripled sales...now apparently the new and even LOWER price and more feature laden device is the same price not starting at some inflated price. Granted we are talking about a company that is out to sell content (the blades) over the hardware (the reading device) but that is close to what Pentax could do, if it made sense and they had the balls, price the new K-whatever at the price of the current K-7 right out of the shoot...I am willing to bet they would have similar results to what Amazon found with the huge change in their Kindle pricing.

With Pentax lense prices, especially the mid-to-upper end all much higher selling more bodies might renew the enthusiasm many have lost, not just because of the high lense prices but simply because it's always just more of the same...new camera, price drops slowly over the next 12-18 months, people wait or decide to skip a model simply because it's too spendy AND it's not that much better...I know I decided the short comings of my K20D were fine compared to not what the K7 has or even the so-called noise problem (to me it's fine) but more because it did not have several features I now consider standard. So since I already waited, why not wait for the refined body I expected to begin with...but if they want my cash now, price it to compete with their own K7 not anything else...hell even opening an $999 or $950 would be pretty enticing, but $1200-$1300...no way because that is a lense or three depending on lucky I am in finding nice deals this next year....but get me down near that $899 level right away and I am vulnerable. I wonder how many others would feel the same way and even be tolerant of issues such as the sensor prob that needed a firmware fix, the lack of tethering (oddest thing I have seen since Amazon decided to move the number keys on the new Kindle 3 off the keyboard to a menu...meaning at least 4 button pushes to chose a number and they have to be repeated for each number...ZOIKES!!)

Anyway, I sense I am thinking as you explain, I do want quality but I also know what I can afford. Personally I had HUGE medical bills this year so far which will just keep getting higher or if I am lucky it won't matter, I also had two family members who died and I had to pay their final expenses and in betweent he deaths I had a rat bastard drunk bash in the front of my vehicle as it dared sit in my driveway...plus had to change my own business to adapt the the same market conditions you describe...it would be cool of Pentax at least took a shot at the Amazon idea because for some reason I think if I could get the next new body $400 cheaper NOW rather than in a year, I would do it soonest AND decide to buy more lenses as well...all because I would be happy to have the body I thought the K7 was going to be.

One last thing I get from everyone's great comments in this thread is there is likely not a lot of R&D overhead in this follow-up to the K-7, sure some new features as well as addressing short comings costs money but this time it is not as if they are rebuilding from the ground up, they already did a wonderful job of that in the K-7...heck, even a 2-month intro price of $949.99 with a regular price of $1199.99 would really make me buy early...because for the $200 I might save in a year I get the new body NOW...yet for $400 savings I will not spend the money and wait instead. In the mean time Pentax makes the same amount of money either way, unless they are limiting the profit for the retailer, which here in the US might just not be legal, I don't know...

OK, this is what happens when my RA flares up and I can't sleep...weird ideas. I hope it sort of comes across even slightly...please do point out if I missed a point or have stuff bassackwards...but be kind, I am trying but even after 40yrs of being in business, I am out of my depth in this marketing discussion as my businesses are just of a different species so much does not translate. I'm learning though so thanks for the ideas on all sides.

Of if you enjoy this tread and some fun satirical fiction, I highly recommend either reading the book Jennifer Government or get the audiobook from Audible or wherever...it's all about the marketing and the corporation....follow it up with The Unincorporated Man which is also a nice semi-satirical look at business taking to the point of reductio ad absurdum, which is an debating method I enjoy greatly.

Last edited by brecklundin; 07-31-2010 at 03:39 AM.
07-31-2010, 05:26 AM   #101
Site Supporter
Groucho's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 396
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
No bigger and heavier than the Sony NEX. The E-mount can support a FF image circle.
1. Wonderful job ignoring everything else that I posted. I can only conclude that you had no response yet will continue to go on believing that you alone possess the infallible knowledge that the rest of us, and Pentax themselves, lack.

2. The mount can. The body would need to be bigger to accommodate a FF sensor. Last time I checked, all the APS DSLRs use FF-sized mounts. Yet the FF cameras are all larger and heavier. What do you think all that extra space is, air? Marketing magic?
07-31-2010, 06:28 AM   #102
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 159
QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
2. The mount can. The body would need to be bigger to accommodate a FF sensor. Last time I checked, all the APS DSLRs use FF-sized mounts. Yet the FF cameras are all larger and heavier. What do you think all that extra space is, air? Marketing magic?
I am not sure. The main reasons for bigger and heavier SLR cameras are probably to accommodate the bigger mirror and pentaprism, neither of which would apply to the NEX.
07-31-2010, 07:24 AM   #103
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Yup, there are always some artists who will spring for the higher-end products. But if you want to know what productive amateur photographers are using, look to sources like this:

Flickr: Camera Finder

"Good enough" is not nonsense. "Good enough" sound quality put the MP3 player on top with no real market alternative to speak of--when was the last time you saw someone carrying a CD player or MD? The other side to today's popular "good enough" products, of course, is "fun to use". I've never seen a "FF" camera that was in the slightest engaging.

I've been working on a new fashion-related business in Japan for the past two years and can tell you that values have certainly changed. It's a much broader thing than photography that I'm referring to, but in consumer spending all together. Spending on brands, or for the sake of spending itself, has not taken hold with the "Millenials" the way it did with the previous two generations, especially in perpetually-flat Japan. Luxury brands are actively pulling out of Japan and/or closing stores and/or cancelling expansion plans. At the same time dozens of department stores close every year, but dollar stores and inexpensive fashion outlets like Uniqlo and even the railway companies' stores are booming. The most profitable retailer in the country is the East Japan Rail company. The department stores that ruled the roost for two-three generations with high-cost goods are finished.

FWIW, I'm in the midst of raising funding for a business founded on the very premise that people's attitudes are changing for real. 8)
Hah! I'll invest.

What I find bizarre is the guys (many of them, audiophiles too...and it's almost always guys) who spend $2,000 on a receiver, another $10k on speakers, with the input being the iPod dock.

Yet that is exactly what drives the high-end market. Without that dock, sales would tumble.

Right now I find FF cameras too big. But APS-C was extra large as well until we have the Sony NEX, which, as I've posted before, can accept an FF image circle. At some point Sony sees that they won't be able to innovate on form factor, lenses, interface, software, ergonomics, etc. It will have to be the sensor. This happened in the 1980's with SLR cameras where they became commoditized to the point that it was the film companies who had the real profit margins. Kodak and Fuji were monsters.

I, too, see your change in attitude amongst consumers. I see it in Government revenues. Part of it is the China effect (Wal-mart). Part of it is simply recovery from over-spending. We're in deflation all over the West, not just Japan.
07-31-2010, 07:39 AM   #104
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by Groucho Quote
2. The mount can. The body would need to be bigger to accommodate a FF sensor. Last time I checked, all the APS DSLRs use FF-sized mounts. Yet the FF cameras are all larger and heavier. What do you think all that extra space is, air? Marketing magic?
The body would hardly need be bigger. That may not be bad as the most common criticism of the NEX is "where do I hold this thing?". The body would grow into the lens design they've gone with. It might even look more proportional. Once you get rid if the mirror and prism and thin the flange, you've not only saved weight and production costs, you've shrunk the form factor by about 30%.

FF cameras are larger and heavier primarily because the circuitry is massive to process the enormous files, along with all the other "pro" parameters built into them. Those circuits will shrink, as they have with every tech advance. The current crop of FF's use last gen LCD backs. Those, too, are being replaced with much lighter, thinner, less expensive backs. SLR's like the last gen Nikon F series were massive as well, but they did not need to be. They can be as small as my Super Program, or even smaller, like my Oly RC35, or a Rollei 35 (at 245 grams with a built-in lens).

Imagine a FF mirrorless where there was no rear LCD or VF at all. It simply tethered to your smartphone and used its superior screen. Or iPad. If you cut certain costs out, you can up the sensor size to maintain price point parity. Many pro shooters already tether to laptops exclusively. There's lots of ways to skin the cat, but at a certain point, the only way to advance the industry IQ premise will be to go to a larger sensor.
07-31-2010, 07:44 AM   #105
Site Supporter
Groucho's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 396
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
But APS-C was extra large as well until we have the Sony NEX, which, as I've posted before, can accept an FF image circle.
BLAH BLAH BLAH.

You keep repeating this but it is meaningless. The mount being big enough hardly means that the body can fit a FF sensor. Furthermore, do you honestly think that the NEX lenses - 16mm, 18-55mm, and 18-200mm - will cover a FF sensor? Hell no! So, to get your beloved fantasy full-frame NEX, Sony would need to come out with a completely new series of NEX lenses. The current lenses already dwarf the body - imagine FF versions of the lenses and think about how the handling of the body will be. Those are cheap, slow, consumer lenses, too - do you really want an NEX body with a 28-75mm F2.8 or 70-200mm F2.8 (even in slightly smaller NEX versions)? That is an extremely off-balance setup.

Really, Sony is there to make money. It's expensive enough coming up with a brand-new mount and line of lenses - and you are expecting them to make two new lines of lenses (NEX APS and NEX FF) in addition to their A-mount lenses, which come in both APS and FF?

For the millionth time - FF is unavoidably bigger and heavier. Often significantly so. Most people don't want bigger and heavier. See sales of 7D for evidence.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
body, crop, division, ff, lenses, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, sensor, sensors, sony, users
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wild rumor: Canon and Sony fighting over Pentax? rawr Pentax News and Rumors 56 09-05-2010 05:10 PM
Pentax is due for a new body soon... jct us101 Pentax News and Rumors 90 07-31-2010 02:28 PM
Will Sony supply the Sensor for future bodies? Reportage Pentax News and Rumors 10 06-22-2010 06:47 PM
Potential Pentax user Terry Cliss Welcomes and Introductions 3 02-14-2008 01:20 AM
Potential new Pentax user AlexL Pentax DSLR Discussion 30 08-26-2007 04:33 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:00 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top