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10-03-2010, 07:51 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I'll take it you are no fan of EVIL's. That's fine, but I like both SLR's an EVIL's, and I look forward to Pentax making both.


Ok, so not screw drive, but it does make clearance for a mirror box, which is obviously no longer needed. I simply mentioned screw drive because that is just one more item from the film era that is no longer required. And thanks for the tip, but I've used a Pentax K1000, ME Super, and currently my main camera is a Pentax LX. They are all quite small, but they won't fit in a pocket like a Sony NEX5 can. You should really test out the Olympus clip on EVF. I much prefer using that to any APS-C DSLR viewfinder. The sad truth is optical view finders just aren't as good as they used to be. That may change one day, but there doesn't seem to be much of a demand for it, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for an OVF as good as the Pentax LX has.


They will care when their camera bodies are twice as thick as Sony and m4/3's.

I don't really understand why you're so upset about these Pentax EVIL rumors. I suggest not reading about it if it's going to upset you. Some people prefer DSRL's, some prefer EVIL's...life goes on.
I wish you hadn't combined my 2 posts into one response. However, the 4/3 is not aps-c, we were talking about the NX, rebmember?

Plus, I said Asahiflex and K. The K1000 and LX are larger than them.

Edit: The *istD and other film bodies show that the thickness isn't as big of a problem as some make it, especially with the aforementioned DA ltd pancake lenses.

Edit: Edit: The NEX will not fit in the pocket either with the zoom kit lens.


Last edited by Blue; 10-04-2010 at 08:09 PM.
10-03-2010, 08:05 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
To my opinion for tele the EVIL's are no good because I need a proper OVF and grip to hold such lens (icw large sensor). But a small EVIL with wide pancake lenses and (via adapter) compatible with collection of DSLR lenses would be great for many Pentax fans.
- Nikon and Canon will do the same and it will hurt Panasonic and Olympus.

If you only need one lenses on your compact EVIL then they can also consider the large sensor fixed lens idea. But in that case transition to other brand is easier...

That was pretty much the point I was trying to make.
10-04-2010, 04:27 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
However, the Sony 4/3 is not aps-c, we were talking about the NX, remember?
I don't really get what you're talking about here....

Sony don't make 4/3 or micro 4/3.

Sony NEX cameras DO have APS-C sensors.
10-04-2010, 04:54 PM   #184
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Panasonic GH2 by far looks like a killer to all other brands. and the king of EVIL cameras
with super fast auto focus, full HD and AF in video and with the new 14mm f/2.5 (in case that this lens will be sharp enough )
this is a dream camera

10-04-2010, 05:56 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
Panasonic GH2 by far looks like a killer to all other brands. and the king of EVIL cameras
with super fast auto focus, full HD and AF in video and with the new 14mm f/2.5 (in case that this lens will be sharp enough )
this is a dream camera
only 2 things that make it fall short.

1.> it would be freaking much more expensive than the GH1 which is already priced the same as that of the new line medium range APS-C cameras.
2.> it's still M4/3

although I got to admit that it will be a great Video camera. for photography, it is yet to be seen.
10-04-2010, 06:03 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
only 2 things that make it fall short.

1.> it would be freaking much more expensive than the GH1 which is already priced the same as that of the new line medium range APS-C cameras.
2.> it's still M4/3

although I got to admit that it will be a great Video camera. for photography, it is yet to be seen.

I can't understand why the GH1 is so expensive outside of Japan.

Cheapest price in Japan for the GH1 with 14-140mm lens:

$720 USD / 530 EUR
10-04-2010, 06:32 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
I can't understand why the GH1 is so expensive outside of Japan.

Cheapest price in Japan for the GH1 with 14-140mm lens:

$720 USD / 530 EUR
I don't understand either. honestly, it's the only major thing that keeps a lot of people hands from getting it. the cheapest one that I saw being sold in the U.S. for $500 or $600 was even a body demo stock. that's the only copy that I saw for how much it's cost in Japan. honestly, Olympus is making a living out of this bad pricing of the GH1 in North America. I guess Panasonic has overestimated their cameras capability to the consumers' buying logic and capacity. if there was a high demand for the GH1 before, it's present pricing here in North America has certainly put the demand at "0".
10-04-2010, 07:20 PM   #188
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I've also seen the GH1 with 14-45mm lens for $540 USD.

Also, because the GH1 &14-140mm is cheap, I've seen "second hand" but UNUSED GH1 body (the kit was bought but the 14-140mm removed) for $440 USD!!!

Same for the G2.... 14-42mm & 45-200mm removed, the body "second hand" but UNUSED, for $330 USD!!!!

10-04-2010, 08:07 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
I don't really get what you're talking about here....

Sony don't make 4/3 or micro 4/3.

Sony NEX cameras DO have APS-C sensors.
I really meant to type Oly instead of Sony there because it was in reference to 4/3 sensors. My point was that with the 4/3 cameras, a diminutive mount makes sense, but with aps-c, small bayonet mounts are feasible for interchangeable lens systems.
10-04-2010, 08:12 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
I can't understand why the GH1 is so expensive outside of Japan.

Cheapest price in Japan for the GH1 with 14-140mm lens:

$720 USD / 530 EUR
This is the real reason the historically electronics based companies are pushing EVIL. They are cheaper to manufacture giving them a big margin. However, at some point the prices will shift. The big issue is what the longevity of some of these things will be. For example, how long will the NX lenses be usable or will they become orphaned. I think the historical photography based companies are looking at possible new mounts from a sustainability aspect. They don't want to create and short lived mount and orphan it.
10-04-2010, 08:18 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
I can't understand why the GH1 is so expensive outside of Japan.
Lack of competition perhaps? There really is no other mirrorless camera on the market that can match it. Luckily it looks like Sony is starting to put pressure on m4/3's. After the release of the Sony NEX3/5 there have been pretty big price drops on the EPL1 and the GF1. Hopefully when the Sony NEX7 and whatever Pentax comes out with it will force Panasonic to lower the price of the GH2.

By all accounts the GH2 is an amazing camera. I'm still waiting for reviews from sites I trust, but I've read a number of hands on tests from the Photokina show floor where people claimed the AF speed is as fast as any DSLR short of the action based cameras like the Canon 7D, Nikon D300s, etc. I even read one guy claim the AF speed is faster than the K5. I've seen some AF videos of it on youtube, it is certainly fast enough for me, but I'm not so sure that it's faster than the K7/5 yet. However I must admit the face tracking is great. That really shows the potential of what EVIL AF is going to be like in the very near future. Just touch the screen on the subjects face and the camera follows it. No more fiddling around with AF points or recomposing. Aside from the size advantage the the AF potential of EVIL's is what interests me the most with these cameras. It's not quite there yet, but in 5 years? Hmm...
10-04-2010, 08:37 PM   #192
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I look forward for more EVIL cameras, and specially one from Pentax.

Good design is simple design. The EVIL, with less moving parts and less prone to mechanical defect, is without a doubt better design practice. Making a weather-proof, shock-proof EVIL camera in a K-5 level body would be cakewalk for Pentax.

The problem that remains, though, is the EVF quality. Further development of EVIL cameras will be ultimately defined by how good of a LED screen they can develop. There's a lack of high-resolution, high dynamic range LED/OLED technology in the market, and the size they need to be for EVF just makes the challenge harder. Maybe they even need to come up with something better than backlit LED for this application. And there's the power consumption barrier to overcome too, although with more room in the body you can fit more battery.

Considering the pace at which they develop HDR TVs (crawling slow), I don't think we'll see the big names launching a professional grade EVIL camera anytime soon. The good side is that, with EVIL, body manufacturing gets cheaper, so for entry-levels or very compact cameras the trade-off of the EVF is acceptable.

Not a fan of rangefinder, but I liked the innovation Fuji pulled out with their hybrid VF on the X100. Similar technology disruption will be needed for EVILs to go off big time.

Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 10-04-2010 at 08:51 PM.
10-04-2010, 10:27 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Lack of competition perhaps? There really is no other mirrorless camera on the market that can match it. Luckily it looks like Sony is starting to put pressure on m4/3's. After the release of the Sony NEX3/5 there have been pretty big price drops on the EPL1 and the GF1. Hopefully when the Sony NEX7 and whatever Pentax comes out with it will force Panasonic to lower the price of the GH2.

By all accounts the GH2 is an amazing camera. I'm still waiting for reviews from sites I trust, but I've read a number of hands on tests from the Photokina show floor where people claimed the AF speed is as fast as any DSLR short of the action based cameras like the Canon 7D, Nikon D300s, etc. I even read one guy claim the AF speed is faster than the K5. I've seen some AF videos of it on youtube, it is certainly fast enough for me, but I'm not so sure that it's faster than the K7/5 yet. However I must admit the face tracking is great. That really shows the potential of what EVIL AF is going to be like in the very near future. Just touch the screen on the subjects face and the camera follows it. No more fiddling around with AF points or recomposing. Aside from the size advantage the the AF potential of EVIL's is what interests me the most with these cameras. It's not quite there yet, but in 5 years? Hmm...

before that, comes the price tag question. if it costs $1,500, I'll get the X100 instead.

if it's $1,000, I will still get the X100. why? the price is still above what I'm willing to pay for or still way above what it's really worth. the mirrorless APS-C cameras and Oly m4/3s cost way less than that at $500-$700. Panasonic needs to play it's card right.
10-04-2010, 10:49 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
before that, comes the price tag question. if it costs $1,500, I'll get the X100 instead.

if it's $1,000, I will still get the X100. why? the price is still above what I'm willing to pay for or still way above what it's really worth. the mirrorless APS-C cameras and Oly m4/3s cost way less than that at $500-$700. Panasonic needs to play it's card right.

Panasonic micro 4/3 is way cheaper than Olympus in Japan, so it's around the other way!!!!!
10-04-2010, 10:55 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
Panasonic micro 4/3 is way cheaper than Olympus in Japan, so it's around the other way!!!!!
unfortunately, we are not part of the Japan market. for whatever reason, Panasonic has screwed up it's North American market and it's not doing it any favors.
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