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10-10-2010, 05:21 AM   #271
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I think a lot of people are missing out on what is appealing to a lot of people about MFT. Too many of the posters think everything is an either or proposition. Actually I think Panasonic and Olympus are quite smart. They make a high quality and quite frankly rather expensive product that appeals to people who want a camera to compliment their existing ASPC or Full Frame camera. In Olympus's case it's stylish enough to appeal to other customers too.

Pentax has probably missed the boat on MFT. Nothing against Full Frame cameras, but they aren't going to be more profitable making a camera that appeals to people like me with a bunch of old K mount lenses.

The 645D is a great idea though.

10-10-2010, 06:11 AM   #272
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How about what is appealing to a lot of people about Canon or Nikon? Pentax surely missed the boat on EF/F systems
There is nothing miraculous about MFT; it's just another proprietary system. And I'm quite sure that having a MFT camera as a complement to a DSLR is the exception.
The K-mount is a great idea, too
10-10-2010, 02:10 PM   #273
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There would be a tremendous market I would think! If pentax made a small and narrow mirrirless camera that could use the existing and small da limited lenses! Maybe even retaining the aps sensor size. This would blow 4/3's out of the water and I would guess many who already have pentax system would buy as a 'point and shoot' option for times when the dlsr control is not needed. Pentax would just need to work out the auto focus using live view to get the performance of panasonic. Other's throught's?
10-10-2010, 03:43 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
How about what is appealing to a lot of people about Canon or Nikon? Pentax surely missed the boat on EF/F systems
There is nothing miraculous about MFT; it's just another proprietary system. And I'm quite sure that having a MFT camera as a complement to a DSLR is the exception.
The K-mount is a great idea, too
Actually I agree with you completely. I think it's rather pointless for Pentax to try and get in the MFT market. The Panasonic and Olympus cameras are really good and I doubt Pentax could match them, just like I doubt Pentax could compete with Nikon or Canon in the Full Frame market. I think Pentax is doing what they can which is focus on the DSLR's which they have lenses for and getting in a market where they can seriously compete- medium format. Their reputation in medium format is quite good. Heck Nick Brandt still shoots everything on a Pentax 6X7.

Pentax would have to make a better camera than they make now to compete against the E-P2. I own several Pentax cameras and none of them are of the same quality. I'm kind of loyal to the brand because I have a lot of SMC M and SMC A lenses from a long time ago which I really like. Plus I really like the DA Limiteds. But if I was starting over, I wouldn't buy Pentax.

I'm going to get a K5 because I actually like the ASPC format An ASPC frame prints perfectly on A3 at 12x18 (I never crop, I prefer to crop with the viewfinder). However, given everything I've read about Full Frame on this forum, I am somewhat intrigued by the format. I am seriously considering getting a Sony A900to compliment the MFT and Pentax.

10-10-2010, 04:23 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Actually I agree with you completely. I think it's rather pointless for Pentax to try and get in the MFT market. The Panasonic and Olympus cameras are really good and I doubt Pentax could match them, just like I doubt Pentax could compete with Nikon or Canon in the Full Frame market. I think Pentax is doing what they can which is focus on the DSLR's which they have lenses for and getting in a market where they can seriously compete- medium format. Their reputation in medium format is quite good. Heck Nick Brandt still shoots everything on a Pentax 6X7.

Pentax would have to make a better camera than they make now to compete against the E-P2. I own several Pentax cameras and none of them are of the same quality. I'm kind of loyal to the brand because I have a lot of SMC M and SMC A lenses from a long time ago which I really like. Plus I really like the DA Limiteds. But if I was starting over, I wouldn't buy Pentax.

I'm going to get a K5 because I actually like the ASPC format An ASPC frame prints perfectly on A3 at 12x18 (I never crop, I prefer to crop with the viewfinder). However, given everything I've read about Full Frame on this forum, I am somewhat intrigued by the format. I am seriously considering getting a Sony A900to compliment the MFT and Pentax.
My line of reasoning regarding Pentax and Micro 4/3 runs like this.

Many people DO think that Pentax needs to have its own mirrorless camera. If they do so, they have three options:
1. Develop their own proprietary short flange distance mount. (in the same way that Sony has the NEX-3 & NEX-5, and the micro 4/3)
2. Develop their own K mount mirrorless camera to support current and past lenses. (in a similar way to the Sony A33 & A55)
3. Develop their own Micro 4/3 camera.


If they choose (1.), they must compete against 3 other proprietary formats. Two of these formats(Sony NEX & Micro4/3) already make up around 30% of 2010 sales in Japan. The Samsung NX sales are not good. Adding their own mount will have similar low sales, in my opinion, because it is then the 4th mirrorless format. There is a big risk of spending a lot of R&D money for little return.

If they choose (2.), they will cannibalize their DSLR segment, which they DON'T want to do.

If they choose (3.), there are options. Let's say they START by producing the Pentax K - micro 4/3 "smart" adapter I was talking about, which would have aperture stop down and focus motor built in. And the smart electronics would communicate with a micro 4/3 camera, & emulate CDAF so that AF would work with Pentax AF lenses.
Q. If you have a Pentax DSLR & Pentax lenses, and there was a Pentax K - micro 4/3 "smart" adapter available, would you be tempted to to buy a small micro 4/3 camera as a complement to your Pentax DSLR??
If so, then would you consider a Pentax micro 4/3 camera if it was available?


But why would Pentax produce such an adapter for a different camera format, without hope for camera sales? That would be a good question, but I think that it would test the market for Pentax, regarding lenses. The product itself wouldn't consume more R&D resources than a typical small P&S camera, and it would be innovative, and put Pentax on the micro 4/3 user's radar. Have a look at some of the micro 4/3 forums around.

For example, I have been a Pentax user for a long time. But I have other brand DSLRs, along with micro 4/3. If Pentax made such an adapter, I would be one of the first to buy it as a micro 4/3 user. It would show smart innovative lead, which would make me very inclined to buy a Pentax micro 4/3 camera, rather than Olympus or Panasonic.
10-10-2010, 05:00 PM   #276
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Novoflex makes a smart adapter for MFT and Kmount. You an use for example DA Limiteds on them. They are a bit pricey, but are extremely well made. The only drawback is the aperture is set with a blue ring which you have to experiment with until you figure out what is F8 or F4 or whatever. Quite frankly I've found it to be a bit of a hassle. It does work fantastic with SMC M or SMC A lenses though. I would highly recommend this adapter to any MFT user.
10-10-2010, 05:56 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I think a lot of people are missing out on what is appealing to a lot of people about MFT. Too many of the posters think everything is an either or proposition. Actually I think Panasonic and Olympus are quite smart. They make a high quality and quite frankly rather expensive product that appeals to people who want a camera to compliment their existing ASPC or Full Frame camera. In Olympus's case it's stylish enough to appeal to other customers too.

Pentax has probably missed the boat on MFT. Nothing against Full Frame cameras, but they aren't going to be more profitable making a camera that appeals to people like me with a bunch of old K mount lenses.

The 645D is a great idea though.
The mft is still a smaller sensor than APS-c and companies such as Samsung, Fuji and Sigma are pushing compacts into the aps-c direction. Unless Pentax crams one of the mft sensors in one of their p&s (like the W90), it could be construed as a step back for them since they are a company that uses APS-c in their interchangeable lens systems. To say they can't compete in FF even though they stepped it up with the dSLR mf 645D is :Hysterical:. Furthermore, I don't get why some folks think the K-mount lenses are adequate for ff given that's what they were developed for. I guess someone better go tell Nikon that there bayonet lenses aren't going to work on ff bodies.

By a bunch of old lenses do you mean the FA 31, 43, and 77 or are you referring to the D FA 100 WR? Actually, Nikon and Canon have some lenses in their lineup that have been around for a while and many that are updates.

:sarcasm:
10-10-2010, 06:34 PM - 1 Like   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
If they choose (2.), they will cannibalize their DSLR segment, which they DON'T want to do.
That is the train of thought I still don't understand. Supposedly Nikon is going to make their upcoming mirror-less cameras more like P&S's with interchangeable lenses and use a smaller than APS-C sensor just to protect their DSLR's. I see no reason why Pentax should do the same. The simple fact is mirror-less cameras are going to cannibalize DSLR's. Unless someone makes a digital version of an Olympus OM I will never own a DSLR again; and honestly, I don't even know that I would even then. Once you get used to see true DOF preview when composing through an EVF it's very tough going back to an OVF. OVF's are far superior for action, but I don't do action shots. For doing portraits, street shots, or landscapes; give me a large EVF.

Anyway, back on track...why should companies care if someone chooses a DSLR or an EVIL so long as they buy into a system with their logo on the body? EVIL's are simply a better choice for some styles of photography (I'd love to see a medium format EVIL for example, which is what I think Pentax should have done with the 645D). The simple fact is EVIL's already compete directly with DSLR's and no marketing choice by Nikon or Pentax is going to change that. Pentax should make the best EVIL system they can and protecting their DSLR's shouldn't be a factor. In fact, in my perfect world they'd make an EVIL system with a full frame sensor, thus positioning their mirror-less system above their DSLR's.

10-10-2010, 07:12 PM   #279
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At present, Canon and Nikon are dueling it out with the G11/12 and P7000 up-scale compacts which are > $400 and up until recently the G11 was $499. Something will have to give for CaNikon to get into the EVIL racket.
10-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #280
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StanleyK said "Pentax would have to make a better camera than they make now to compete against the E-P2. I own several Pentax cameras and none of them are of the same quality".

Think its crazy to say pentax doesn't make a camera as good as the E-P2! Haven't seen one, but have an Olympus E30 (same sensor). It is a very nice camera (not built as well as K-7 or E-P2). It doesn't out perform the K-7. The Pentax has weather proofing (not on Pen), a much higher quality lcd, a flash, and faster AF. Also have the Olympus E1. Would be hard for me to argue that its better built than the K-7 either.

Not a Pen hater. Considering buying one. Even the E-P2 isn't the best all around in the Olympus line up. The Cheaper E-PL1 cleans its clock for image quality.

Pentax could build a great mirrorless if they want. Except for AF issues I don't see the technology of mirrorless being much different than a DSLR. Same sensors, processors, lcds, etc. It will be very obvious how much of a lead Pana and Oly don't have, when the big two decide to enter the fray.

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Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #34 in compact camera forum. Enter #35. Any brand camera. Enter now!
10-10-2010, 07:44 PM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
At present, Canon and Nikon are dueling it out with the G11/12 and P7000 up-scale compacts which are > $400 and up until recently the G11 was $499. Something will have to give for CaNikon to get into the EVIL racket.
Add the Panasonic LX3-5, Leica and new Fuji...
10-11-2010, 05:56 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
StanleyK said "Pentax would have to make a better camera than they make now to compete against the E-P2. I own several Pentax cameras and none of them are of the same quality".

Think its crazy to say pentax doesn't make a camera as good as the E-P2! Haven't seen one, but have an Olympus E30 (same sensor). It is a very nice camera (not built as well as K-7 or E-P2). It doesn't out perform the K-7. The Pentax has weather proofing (not on Pen), a much higher quality lcd, a flash, and faster AF. Also have the Olympus E1. Would be hard for me to argue that its better built than the K-7 either.

Not a Pen hater. Considering buying one. Even the E-P2 isn't the best all around in the Olympus line up. The Cheaper E-PL1 cleans its clock for image quality.

Pentax could build a great mirrorless if they want. Except for AF issues I don't see the technology of mirrorless being much different than a DSLR. Same sensors, processors, lcds, etc. It will be very obvious how much of a lead Pana and Oly don't have, when the big two decide to enter the fray.

thanks
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Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #34 in compact camera forum. Enter #35. Any brand camera. Enter now!
I think you are right about the E-PL1. I would love to get one but I just pre-ordered the K5 and a Pentax 43mm. I'm trying to get the 31, 43, and 77 before they are discontinued/no longer available. Maybe next year on the E-PL1. Considering how much I use the E-P2 it probably would have been the smarter move but I'm more impulsive than smart.............

I tend to print the E-P2 images at 12x16 on A3 paper so I'm not sure I will really be able to tell the difference between that and E-PL1 but I like the idea of carrying two of them. One with the Panasonic 20mm and one the Panasonic 45mm. So far Panasonic seems to make the better lenses, but I really like the way the Pen's look. I will grant that little wheel on the back of the E-P2 is a huge maddening headache. It's a funny little camera. The people I know who have one really love it (myself included). But I can see how others might not.

I'm not much of gear head or tech person so all the sensor testing stuff bores the heck out of me. If I like using the camera and I like the photos it takes I don't really care about anything else. The E-P2 is a really fun camera even given that stupid wheel.

Last edited by stanleyk; 10-11-2010 at 05:57 AM. Reason: left out an "and"
10-11-2010, 06:01 AM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Add the Panasonic LX3-5, Leica and new Fuji...
Yes that new Fuji really looks tempting.
10-11-2010, 06:07 AM   #284
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DNAS-

I think it would be great if Pentax made a mirrorless camera. If it accepted K mount lenses I would definitely get one. But I seriously doubt they care what I think.

And just so no one gets upset, I think it would be great if Pentax made a Full Frame camera too.
10-11-2010, 06:21 PM   #285
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StanleyK, understand what you are saying about the Pen. Have many dormant film lenses that would go digital with a Pen. Will probably get the E-PL1 with the kit zoom (would be my only af lens for this camera). My main walk around set up will probably be my Leica 21 (R lens with adapter to M), and 40 M lens. Also have a 21 Olympus OM lens. Have plenty of lenses in the 18-90 range to use including OM, Leica, Pentax 110, The real original Pen, etc. Just wish they had an internal view finder.

The Limiteds are great lenses. Already have the 31 & 77. 43 was nice but didn't turn me on (nor did the 40 pancake). Guess the 40 range on aps-c sensor isn't my range.

Also interested in the K-5. Doesn't seem to offer much to my style of shooting vs K-7. Don't care about af speed - hardly use it. Don't care about more than 5fps - never use it. The one thing that makes the camera interesting is the vastly improved high ISO. Would use that. May sell the K10D (keep K20D) to help finance both cameras. Arghhh.

Pentax could make a nice mirrorless camera. Look at the size of the 40 pancake.

thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #34 in compact camera forum. Enter #35. Any brand camera. Enter now!

Last edited by barondla; 10-11-2010 at 06:30 PM.
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