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10-11-2010, 10:30 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Unless someone makes a digital version of an Olympus OM I will never own a DSLR again; and honestly, I don't even know that I would even then.
I've given up on a digital OM1. The manufacturers are too distracted competing on features.

But more to the point the OVF solved a problem we no longer have. An APS-C or f/f MILC would be a lot more interesting and forward-looking. EVF only, please.

QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I'm not much of gear head or tech person so all the sensor testing stuff bores the heck out of me. If I like using the camera and I like the photos it takes I don't really care about anything else.
I've made my entire career on technology but I agree completely. My Olympus 35-DC and (much maligned, 'round here anyway) late-70's Minolta film gear are way more fun than any DSLR I've ever held.

OMG I'm just like those analog audiophile guys. 8(

10-13-2010, 06:47 PM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
StanleyK, understand what you are saying about the Pen. Have many dormant film lenses that would go digital with a Pen. Will probably get the E-PL1 with the kit zoom (would be my only af lens for this camera). My main walk around set up will probably be my Leica 21 (R lens with adapter to M), and 40 M lens. Also have a 21 Olympus OM lens. Have plenty of lenses in the 18-90 range to use including OM, Leica, Pentax 110, The real original Pen, etc. Just wish they had an internal view finder.

The Limiteds are great lenses. Already have the 31 & 77. 43 was nice but didn't turn me on (nor did the 40 pancake). Guess the 40 range on aps-c sensor isn't my range.

Also interested in the K-5. Doesn't seem to offer much to my style of shooting vs K-7. Don't care about af speed - hardly use it. Don't care about more than 5fps - never use it. The one thing that makes the camera interesting is the vastly improved high ISO. Would use that. May sell the K10D (keep K20D) to help finance both cameras. Arghhh.

Pentax could make a nice mirrorless camera. Look at the size of the 40 pancake.

thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #34 in compact camera forum. Enter #35. Any brand camera. Enter now!
Yep, no zooms, companion camera for D-SLR that you can use your primes on. Make it as small as you can with the K mount and go from there. A nice mag/alloy body like the NX5 wouldn't hurt either. Ship it with that new 35mm as the kit.

I have a e-pl1 with a kit and that is now my family camera, and the one that sits in the backpack with me anywhere. Fantastic Jpgs don't hurt either. Great in better light/general use.

But I think it has to be APS-c for the more serious crowd to effectively use their primes to full effect. The idea for full frame has some merit as well.

I just picked up a NX100 today for kicks and put the 30mm on it to try. Damn nice combo for anything except action. I would take it travelling with me tomorrow with a 15mm, 40mm and 70mm...... no wait, wrong system. Sadly it went back on the shelf.

Come on Pentax. This isn't hard.
10-14-2010, 03:54 AM   #288
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Clarkey-

I wish I had gone with the E-PL1. Not because of the flash but because of that wheel on the back of the E-P2 that controls the shutter speed. It drives me crazy. On the other hand the the E-P2 is a really well made camera. Honestly if I print at 12X16 on it or 12X18 on a K7 I can'r tell the difference. I like both cameras. I actually use my older lenses more on the E-P2 because they work exactly like on a MX or K1000.

That said, I just bought a Sigma DP-2 off Ebay (I got it really cheap)....so....I'm apparently a masochist when it comes to cameras. I'm kind of excited about it. Apparently it's least technical and most user unfriendly camera you can buy. I keep hoping someone is going to make a digital K1000......

I do think Pentax is missing a big market here, possibly bigger than the Full Frame market. Or maybe not. I just wouldn't know because I don't follow it that closely. It's rather interesting to read the forums. I don't think you could call them scientific in developing a measure of user satisfaction. However, I have noted a high degree of user satisfaction on the MU 43 forum. There's not much discussion of technical specifications and a lot of discussion about what I enjoy about photography. But to each his own I suppose. There's some really great photography too. The vitriol here towards Pentax is a little depressing at times.

In the end, I'm not sure all the technical specifications, ect are what make a lot of people enjoy photography. Whatever the cameras limitations you can find a way to work around them to enjoy photography. Or at least I hope so given the impending arrival of my use DP-2..................... I think you really have to work with that one.

Last edited by stanleyk; 10-14-2010 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Change DP-1 to DP-2
10-14-2010, 10:44 AM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I actually use my older lenses more on the E-P2 because they work exactly like on a MX or K1000.
I just picked up a Sony NEX 3 on eBay for $400 because I'd rather use my old Pentax primes with it then I would with a DSLR (thanks to Sony's new firmware update). It was tough for me, I really really wanted an EVF (I got tired of not having one with my E-P1), but the 1.5x crop factor just works much better with old full frame glass; and that APS-C Sony sensor is just so much better than any other mirrorless camera aside from possibly the GH2. My Pentax M 28mm/2.8 will now be my standard walk around lens and my SMC-A 50mm/1.4 will make a great short tele for portraits. The NEX-3 is far from my perfect camera, but it will do until either the NEX-7 or the Pentax EVIL come along.

10-14-2010, 12:58 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I just picked up a Sony NEX 3 on eBay for $400 because I'd rather use my old Pentax primes with it then I would with a DSLR (thanks to Sony's new firmware update). It was tough for me, I really really wanted an EVF (I got tired of not having one with my E-P1), but the 1.5x crop factor just works much better with old full frame glass; and that APS-C Sony sensor is just so much better than any other mirrorless camera aside from possibly the GH2. My Pentax M 28mm/2.8 will now be my standard walk around lens and my SMC-A 50mm/1.4 will make a great short tele for portraits. The NEX-3 is far from my perfect camera, but it will do until either the NEX-7 or the Pentax EVIL come along.
Have you posted any NEX images on your Flickr page? Those are some really great photos!!! I'm very curious about that camera. I will admit I'm still kind of stuck on the viewfinder but I'm wavering...

I like Sony cameras. I had a chance to use an A900 recently. If I ever decide to go the Full Frame route that's the one I would get. It's just such a big camera I know I would end up leaving it at home most of the time.

I got my DP 1 in the mail this afternoon. The battery is charging and I can't wait to be pulling my hair out with it. I must admit though the B/W's I've seen done with the camera are quite stunning. That said, a cursory examination of it and the manual tells me it's about as fundamentally user unfriendly as they could possibly make it.

I didn't realize what a hassle using the SMC M lenses were on my Pentax cameras until I got the E-P2. They are a real joy to use on the E-P2. That green button never gets the exposure right. The funny thing is it's different depending on the lens.

I don't know what kind of adapter you need for the NEX, but if Novoflex makes one for NEX they are really first rate.

Again, your photos are extremely impressive.
10-14-2010, 01:00 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Clarkey-

I wish I had gone with the E-PL1. Not because of the flash but because of that wheel on the back of the E-P2 that controls the shutter speed. It drives me crazy. On the other hand the the E-P2 is a really well made camera. Honestly if I print at 12X16 on it or 12X18 on a K7 I can'r tell the difference. I like both cameras. I actually use my older lenses more on the E-P2 because they work exactly like on a MX or K1000.

That said, I just bought a Sigma DP-2 off Ebay (I got it really cheap)....so....I'm apparently a masochist when it comes to cameras. I'm kind of excited about it. Apparently it's least technical and most user unfriendly camera you can buy. I keep hoping someone is going to make a digital K1000......

I do think Pentax is missing a big market here, possibly bigger than the Full Frame market. Or maybe not. I just wouldn't know because I don't follow it that closely. It's rather interesting to read the forums. I don't think you could call them scientific in developing a measure of user satisfaction. However, I have noted a high degree of user satisfaction on the MU 43 forum. There's not much discussion of technical specifications and a lot of discussion about what I enjoy about photography. But to each his own I suppose. There's some really great photography too. The vitriol here towards Pentax is a little depressing at times.

In the end, I'm not sure all the technical specifications, ect are what make a lot of people enjoy photography. Whatever the cameras limitations you can find a way to work around them to enjoy photography. Or at least I hope so given the impending arrival of my use DP-2..................... I think you really have to work with that one.
You are absolutely right about the E-pl1. It is such a fun camera to use! The results in daylight or with the flash (wink, wink) are great - it is such a pleasure to have really good jpgs. IMHO, the nonsense about the low focus speed is just that, 90% of the time. I've not had an issue with the lack of wheels - it is a bit slower, but logical and learnable. You are correct in that µ4/3 users seem to be generally a fairly happy lot.
Oly does have one thing better than Pentax, and that is the display of both the metered live histogram and the highlighted overlay of the spot meter circle reading point on it - wonderful stuff!

I hope I wasn't bidding against you on that DP2! (I did bid on one ending last week) - I too am a bit of a masochist when it comes to strange camera systems. I would really like a portable one with good image quality, and still can't understand (even with all of the discussion with registration distances and the like) why we can't have large sensor compacts the same size as 135mm film camera compacts where the lens is built in. Makes no sense to me (I guess except for sensor cost). The reason for me to pick up a µ4/3 was size, image quality, and the availability of a underwater housing (and onboard wireless flash controller/ 1/160 synch for flashes/strobes - for which olympus makes underwater housings).

The shared lens platform is not a bad thing either.

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I just picked up a Sony NEX 3 on eBay for $400 because I'd rather use my old Pentax primes with it then I would with a DSLR (thanks to Sony's new firmware update). It was tough for me, I really really wanted an EVF (I got tired of not having one with my E-P1), but the 1.5x crop factor just works much better with old full frame glass; and that APS-C Sony sensor is just so much better than any other mirrorless camera aside from possibly the GH2. My Pentax M 28mm/2.8 will now be my standard walk around lens and my SMC-A 50mm/1.4 will make a great short tele for portraits. The NEX-3 is far from my perfect camera, but it will do until either the NEX-7 or the Pentax EVIL come along.
The above being said, I have found APS-c does offer a lot better rolloff of the highlights and softer transitions on edges. It certainly offers lower long exposure noise. Your comment about the FL is on the money. Have you found an adaptor for the sony that does K mount with aperture control? I would buy an NEX-3/5 to use with my limiteds. The prospect of the 15mm or the 40mm on one would certainly entice me.
10-14-2010, 01:29 PM   #292
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Clarkey-

That's one of the appeals (outside of the just general wackiness of it) of the DP-2. I think the sensor is more or less ASP-C.

Amazon has the DP-1S on sale right now for $299.00 brand new. I am soooooooo tempted.....I need to sell of some zooms that I have for K mount that I never use first.

The DP-2 arrived today and is charging up.

I am really impressed with the E-P2. That wheel on the back is a pain though.

I really think Pentax could excel at this type of camera. I keep hoping.

Novoflex makes a Kmount for NEX. See:

Sony Alpha NEX Cameras and E Mount Lenses: Novoflex Adapters for Sony NEX E-mount Available

Their M4/3 is great. It has an aperture control ring on it so you can use the DA Limiteds with it. It doesn't have markings on it so you have to do a bit of trail and error. But the machining on the adapter itself is first rate. No infinity focus issues. It costs a good bit but it's worth it. The adapter I got for Konica AR for my E-P2 is no where near the quality. It will infinity focus but you have to back off from infinity a bit.
10-14-2010, 01:56 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Have you posted any NEX images on your Flickr page? Those are some really great photos!!! I'm very curious about that camera. I will admit I'm still kind of stuck on the viewfinder but I'm wavering...

...Again, your photos are extremely impressive.
Thanks for the compliment. Finding the right digital camera has been a 4 year process for me. I started off with a K100D, and then proceeded to buy 4 or 5 other DSLR's before buying an E-P1 last year. The E-P1 wasn't the right camera for me (no EVF), so I sold it after 6 months and just went back to a Pentax LX since I couldn't find a digital I really liked. However, it did convince me that I prefer EVIL's. I know full well I'll get tired of the EVF-less NEX3, but I have a trip to NYC coming up in two weeks and it was hard to turn down for only $400. I won't have my NEX until next week, so no pics on flickr yet, but I've already ordered my PK adapter so I'll be taking tons in NYC in 2 weeks. I'll try and post samples with my 28mm/2.8, 50mm/1.4, as well as my M135mm/3.5. I also have a friend with a 31mm Limited; I'll try and bum that off of him for the trip too. So I should have all kinds of samples up with various Pentax glass shot through a NEX 3 around the first of November.

10-14-2010, 02:16 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Have you found an adaptor for the sony that does K mount with aperture control? I would buy an NEX-3/5 to use with my limiteds. The prospect of the 15mm or the 40mm on one would certainly entice me.
I just bought one of the cheapo $30 PK to NEX adapters on eBay. I don't have any Pentax glass without an aperture ring, so I didn't have to worry about to specialized of an adapter.
10-14-2010, 02:33 PM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
. . .

But more to the point the OVF solved a problem we no longer have. An APS-C or f/f MILC would be a lot more interesting and forward-looking. EVF only, please.


. . . (
That is debatable. 1st of, an evf isn't really a veiwfinder, it is little lcd showing you what the camera saw a split second ago. Plus, they still seem to be problematic with things coming straight at the lens or straight away from it.

I bet you would rather have a driving helmet over your head with an lcd visor in front of your face showing you the road instead of actually looking out the windshield to actually see the road. :Hysterical:

I'm not really sure what problem is being solved by the evf or lack of a finder is solving. It is at the moment allowing electronics companies have a large margin but that will change and we will see who is in it for the long haul. At the end of the day, it still comes down to optics and sensors. The only thing I can figure is that the current vampire fad has got a lot of people biased against mirrors.


:sarcasm:
10-14-2010, 02:35 PM   #296
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I have seen some good images from the DP1 and DP2 cameras. Its only real weakness may be the video in comparison to the LX3, but it offsets that with the near aps-c sized sensor.
10-14-2010, 02:50 PM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I didn't realize what a hassle using the SMC M lenses were on my Pentax cameras until I got the E-P2. They are a real joy to use on the E-P2. That green button never gets the exposure right. The funny thing is it's different depending on the lens.
What's the metering process on the E-P2 with your M glass?
10-14-2010, 02:55 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That is debatable. 1st of, an evf isn't really a veiwfinder, it is little lcd showing you what the camera saw a split second ago. Plus, they still seem to be problematic with things coming straight at the lens or straight away from it.
Sure it's a viewfinder. Everything on the market today has limitations, especially when compared to SLR viewfinders from thirty years ago. Sadly.

Also, I'd hope that any forthcoming Pentax MILC would have an EVF a generation ahead of today's offerings.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I bet you would rather have a driving helmet over your head with an lcd visor in front of your face showing you the road instead of actually looking out the windshield to actually see the road.
To me (I'm a cyclist) your analogy is apt because sitting behind a windshield is very much like using an APS-C OVF.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I'm not really sure what problem is being solved by the evf or lack of a finder is solving. It is at the moment allowing electronics companies have a large margin but that will change and we will see who is in it for the long haul. At the end of the day, it still comes down to optics and sensors. The only thing I can figure is that the current vampire fad has got a lot of people biased against mirrors.
Living in Japan seems to insulate me from the excesses of North American pop culture quite nicely. I keep seeing references to vampires and remain ignorant. It's true what they say .. quite blissful.
10-14-2010, 04:36 PM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote

Snip.....

The only thing I can figure is that the current vampire fad has got a lot of people biased against mirrors.


:sarcasm:
and direct sunlight presumably.
Bram Stoker has a lot to answer for.
10-14-2010, 04:46 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Clarkey-

That's one of the appeals (outside of the just general wackiness of it) of the DP-2. I think the sensor is more or less ASP-C.

Amazon has the DP-1S on sale right now for $299.00 brand new. I am soooooooo tempted.....I need to sell of some zooms that I have for K mount that I never use first.

The DP-2 arrived today and is charging up.

I am really impressed with the E-P2. That wheel on the back is a pain though.

I really think Pentax could excel at this type of camera. I keep hoping.

Novoflex makes a Kmount for NEX. See:

Sony Alpha NEX Cameras and E Mount Lenses: Novoflex Adapters for Sony NEX E-mount Available

Their M4/3 is great. It has an aperture control ring on it so you can use the DA Limiteds with it. It doesn't have markings on it so you have to do a bit of trail and error. But the machining on the adapter itself is first rate. No infinity focus issues. It costs a good bit but it's worth it. The adapter I got for Konica AR for my E-P2 is no where near the quality. It will infinity focus but you have to back off from infinity a bit.
StanleyK - thanks for the link. I see minolta MD lenses there too, could be interesting..
I suspect the 67 glass might be a bit unbalanced on the E-p2 though . Can't be worse than the 100-400 L glass on an adapter I saw a photo of.

Art Vandelay II - Indeed, there are lots of cheap PK adapters on Ebay, but none of them appear to have aperture rings on them.....it is a pity, since the nikon ones do, and they are cheap as beans (I even contacted one of the chinese retailers, but no joy). Still, I have the 50mm 1.4 and the Rikenon 135mm 2.8 (since no-one appears keen to buy them), so I can use those. A 100mm F1.4 never hurts


Now returning you to the thread of mirrorless rumours.......
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