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09-19-2010, 04:09 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Nor do I, especially when:

* The replacement idea is more complicated, more expensive, more delicate, and draws more power than an equivalent mirror/prism setup.
* The weight and bulk reductions are negligible.
* Removing the mirror and the shutter exposes the sensor to dust.



I think he's already doing that. But, fair's fair: how about all those saying how great EVILs are buy one from one Panasonic, Oly or Samsung?

I'd love a compact, interchangeable-lens camera with a large sensor...and an optical viewfinder with full readout.

And before someone asks, no, I don't giving a flying fornicate if you can't use zooms on it, or ridiculous telephotos. That's what DSLRs are for.

Actually I did buy one. I have an E-P2, the Olympus 17mm, 14-42mm, 9-18mm, the Panasonic 20mm, Panasonic 7-14mm, and the Panasonic 45mm. So I'm not sure what you getting at. Personally I have no interest in full frame cameras, but you don't see me constantly crying Pentax is dead if they don't make one, or I'll switch brands if they don't make one, or whatever. Actually I kind of crack up on those. It does seem a tad melodramatic. It's really not hard to do. All kinds of camera shops carry Nikon, Canon, and Sony gear. They will be happy to sell you whatever you want to buy.

And actually I hope Pentax makes a Full Frame camera. I'm not going to buy one, but I think it would be a nice if they made something that a lot of their users want. At this point I'm not sure I'd buy a Pentax mirrorless or not. I happen to really like the Olympus and I have an K mount adapter for it.

And I don't think Pentax will go out of business if they don't make a mirrorless camera. But I do think they will lose a lot of sales. They seem to be rather popular.

09-19-2010, 04:11 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Well, the bar has just been raised a bit for mirrorless digital rangefinders... and the viewfinder solution may please both the OVF and EVF camps:
.
There have been past speculation and calls for such a viewfinder in Pentax DSLRs, but Fuji has gone and done it. It does look like a beautiful camera.
09-19-2010, 04:12 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Well, the bar has just been raised a bit for mirrorless digital rangefinders... and the viewfinder solution may please both the OVF and EVF camps:

Fujifilm unveils FinePix X100 large-sensor compact: Digital Photography Review

No price mentioned... but who needs a Leica X1 anymore? More importantly, perhaps the viewfinder solution will make it into more rangefinder-type camera bodies.
That is awesome. Where can I sign up. I love rangefinders.
09-19-2010, 04:34 PM   #109
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Wow, that Fuji is absolutely perfect...for a fixed lens camera. I just wish it had interchangeable lenses. Damn, so close.

09-19-2010, 05:11 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Nor do I, especially when:


* The weight and bulk reductions are negligible.


Next to the smallest DSLR you can buy:
09-19-2010, 05:12 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Wow, that Fuji is absolutely perfect...for a fixed lens camera.
**** interchangeable lenses, I then declare joyously. This is exactly what I'm interested in. I
a) can't believe it's Fuji
b) hope they don't crap out
c) will be at the Fuji headquarters in Roppongi Mid Town as soon as I hear they're on display
09-19-2010, 05:15 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
**** interchangeable lenses, I then declare joyously. This is exactly what I'm interested in. I
a) can't believe it's Fuji
b) hope they don't crap out
c) will be at the Fuji headquarters in Roppongi Mid Town as soon as I hear they're on display
See you there..... although I might go to Akiba first!!!

09-19-2010, 05:19 PM   #113
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me, i long for an interchangeable lens rangefinder with an adapter that lets me hook up PKA mount lenses with auto-aperture, and later ones with full coupling so i can use an F or later series zoom on it with full frame coupling within the viewfinder. If the viewfinder would zoom a little too it'd be great.

O yeah, and a quiet shutter!
09-19-2010, 09:41 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
* The replacement idea is more complicated, more expensive, more delicate, and draws more power than an equivalent mirror/prism setup.
* The weight and bulk reductions are negligible.
* Removing the mirror and the shutter exposes the sensor to dust.
Weight/bulk reduction negligible? Not sure which lens camera combo you are looking at. Unless you are using super tele, otherwise, the size reduction is huge for me.

The cost will come down very quickly as the manufacturing of mirrorless is much easier and cheaper than DSLR (less labor intensive). Now the component cost is still relatively high; but component cost decrease much more than labor cost.

QuoteQuote:
I think he's already doing that. But, fair's fair: how about all those saying how great EVILs are buy one from one Panasonic, Oly or Samsung?
Absolutely. Count me in.
But I am in no hurry, and I am willing to wait a year to see what Pentax, Nikon and Canon would come up with.
09-19-2010, 10:06 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote


Next to the smallest DSLR you can buy:
Too bad its sensor is even smaller than APS-c and lacks a Viewfinder unless you buy one.
09-19-2010, 10:32 PM   #116
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And yet it still produces great photos.

I love my GF1, fwiw.
09-19-2010, 10:55 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Well, the bar has just been raised a bit for mirrorless digital rangefinders... and the viewfinder solution may please both the OVF and EVF camps:

Fujifilm unveils FinePix X100 large-sensor compact: Digital Photography Review

No price mentioned... but who needs a Leica X1 anymore? More importantly, perhaps the viewfinder solution will make it into more rangefinder-type camera bodies.
I think the price is above $1500.
09-20-2010, 02:35 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
The one lens I'm really interested is the Voigtlander 25mm F.095.
Which will perform like a 50mm F2.8 on FF. And probably cost a great deal.

Doesn't sound quite so exciting put in those terms...
09-20-2010, 02:45 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
Which will perform like a 50mm F2.8 on FF. And probably cost a great deal.

Doesn't sound quite so exciting put in those terms...
Yes and no, 0.95 is 0.95, if you say that that lens DOF at 0.95 will be equivalent of 50 at 2.8 then may be. But then you will still be 3 stops faster, meaning that if you need to use iso 800 on your FF, you would need iso 200 on you APSC.

Anyway lets wait for real life tests.
09-20-2010, 03:01 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Yes and no, 0.95 is 0.95, if you say that that lens DOF at 0.95 will be equivalent of 50 at 2.8 then may be. But then you will still be 3 stops faster, meaning that if you need to use iso 800 on your FF, you would need iso 200 on you APSC.

Anyway lets wait for real life tests.
It's a m4/3 lens not APS-C lens. So if you use ISO200 on m4/3 you will get same image quality with ISO 800 on FF. And 25mm f/1 on m4/3 is equivalent of 50mm f/2.0 on FF.

The biggest difference is that you need to use a big and fast lens on a small sensor camera to get the same result as a smaller and slower lens on a big sensor camera.
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