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08-03-2010, 09:14 PM   #46
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For this to be successful it would have to be a fullly electronic mount. No way they'll retain the screw motor or apeture linkage.

K mount flange distance + mechanical contacts eliminate it.

Jumping onto an existing EVIL mount would be smartest in my opinion. I would like to see how pentax goes competing head to head on features/ ergonomics etc!

M4/3 or the Samsung mount are most likely.... Of these I would like to see the APS-C retained so my vote is with Samsung. Not entirely unlikely given previous cooporation.

WR would definitely be an advantage...

08-03-2010, 11:14 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by kxr4trids Quote
Well I guess it's unofficially official, then.
Where the heck does that come from? Does Adam know something else than what's in this thread?
08-04-2010, 01:46 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Citi think that Hoya wants Pentax out. Exiting the business. Selling it to someone else.

Please note that Citi do not see this as "if" but "when". The risk is sooner versus later. Sooner is good for Hoya. Later is not so good. No reference to a risk that Hoya will not find a buyer.

The financial projections continue to show Pentax as part of Hoya for a few years but that would be a pro forma item. Gotta show it, even if they're convinced Hoya has Pentax on the block. Or has a buyer but is still working through negotiations.

Now .... time for the inevitable thread about a prospective purchaser.

Who's up for that?
Apparently, you're up for that!

It's a good thing if you ask me to create a special thread for this subject because it will allow knowledgeable people to correct your wrong interpretation of this "risks" section.

It doesn't say that Hoya has a plan to sell Pentax, it says that Hoya MIGHT have a plan to sale Pentax and goes on to show what impact it COULD have on their financial projections.
08-04-2010, 02:10 AM   #49
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Why on Earth is this thread linked to at the top of Pentax Forums?

edit: hmmmm......... it's gone now


Last edited by Caat; 08-04-2010 at 02:15 AM.
08-04-2010, 04:23 AM   #50
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To people who don't read financial analysis regularly.

The Upside and Downside Risks sections of any analysis is the financial institution covering themselves against their customers. Here they list things that will have an impact upon the financial predictions listed.

I've seen everything from random speculation, to weather events, to nationalization listed (I'm often reading mineral analysis).

So all I can say is calm down. This is one underpaid post grads opinion.
08-04-2010, 08:05 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Braddokovik Quote
For this to be successful it would have to be a fullly electronic mount. No way they'll retain the screw motor or apeture linkage.

K mount flange distance + mechanical contacts eliminate it.

Jumping onto an existing EVIL mount would be smartest in my opinion. I would like to see how pentax goes competing head to head on features/ ergonomics etc!

M4/3 or the Samsung mount are most likely.... Of these I would like to see the APS-C retained so my vote is with Samsung. Not entirely unlikely given previous cooporation.

WR would definitely be an advantage...
I dont see why people think it is an insurmountable engineering problem to have a fully electronic mount for the mirrorless camera but still retain aperture and focus control. Any adapter for a kmount lens to a mirrorless camera is going to be of substantial thickness (look at the sony alpha to nex adapter, which does have aperture control).
http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/SonyStyleStorefrontAssetStore/img/718x407/LAEA1.png
Anything for Pentax would be of similar dimensions. There is plenty of room in there for 2 micromotors, one to operate the aperture linkage (as sony has already done) and one to run the af screw. It would be more expensive and probably pretty slow focusing if it had to move heavy glass around, but I think alot of people would buy it if that meant they could still use their limiteds on it. And of course, using any of the sdm lenses would not be a problem as long as the adapter had aperture control. Samsung, panasonic, and olympus all make af pancake lenses that are not any larger than that adapter that squeeze in focusing motors along with lens elements and aperture motors. In fact, someone posted a video on dpreview where some guy in Korea had converted a samsung pancake lens for the nx10 into a working autofocus adapter for nikon FF lenses, and it had to move the entire FF lens back and forth. People assume its not doable just because no one has done it yet. But none of the other manufacturers have quite the incentive to preserve backwards compatibility that pentax has.
08-04-2010, 09:01 AM   #52
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It says something about delay. Maybe it's just that there looking for a good partner/buyer, but where due to todays market not yet in the position to find that company that could offer the requested $$$ to Hoya for the deal.

To my opinion the introduction of the 645D, new camera's and Evil make it a stronger brand to sell.
08-04-2010, 10:12 AM   #53
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Other advantages of mirrorless

QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere:
Nope, that wouldn't work because the mirrorless camera wouldn't have a screwdrive motor...unless they didn't want to make it small, but then there's little point to a mirrorless camera. The Pentax MILC would be SDM focusing only, so DA SDM lenses should have no problem focusing.
QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I disagree. The point isn't solely to make the camera smaller. It's to get rid of the mirror box. Which is a complicated piece of engineering. Which means it's expensive. An LCD is very simple in comparison. Cameras are small enough.

An LCD viewfinder truly is WYSIWYG. Which was the whole point of an SLR in the first place over other systems.

And I just don't see a screwdrive motor as being all that large to begin with.

I don't see any reason to switch mounts for those reasons. The only reason why they'd switch it is to finally get rid of the aperture linkage, which like the mirror box is expensive to manufacture -- by virtue of just being a physical thing -- rather than some simple electrical contact that just passes digital protocols.
I'm definitely a bear of little brain about this kinda stuff, but I would think several big advantages of mirrorless would be:
  1. Quieter shutter. Remember how everyone raved about how quiet the K-7 shutter was?
  2. Faster frame rate. Isn't the whole mirror flip-up stuff one of the major impediments to faster frames per second? IIRC, the K20D achieved it's 20 fps by flipping up the mirror and keeping it that was though the suration of the multi-shot sequence. (Note: I do realize that processing power and multi-channel stuff also comes into play, but as AFAIK, the mirror is still the biggest bottleneck. But I could be wrong about that...)
  3. No need for MLU.. I have read some complaints about some Sony DSLRs that do not have mirror lock-up. Removing the mirror essentially puts the camera into always-MLU mode, right?

Am I off-base about this?

Greg

08-04-2010, 11:16 AM   #54
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This whole mirrorless thing is very interesting. I just want to post this kind of idea I had in mind. Bear in mind that this is just sketch of the method and in no scale whatsoever! I was a bit bored. this should not anyway be taken as a reference of my design or photoshop skills!

I would like to see mirrorless with grip design as in this image, if this kind of hinge is sturdy I'm sure it allows compact carrying mode and very good grip when hinged forwards. And also I think I would love that grip because I could get my thumb easily in that deeper part.

What do you think, would this kind of concept work ?

-J



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2655364/grip.JPG

Last edited by jaitas; 08-04-2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason: typo
08-04-2010, 11:25 AM   #55
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Too weak for larger lenses?

QuoteOriginally posted by jaitas Quote
This whole mirrorless thing is very interesting. I just want to post this kind of idea I had in mind. Bear in mind that this is just sketch of the method and in no scale whatsoever! I was a bit bored. this should not anyway be taken as a reference of my design or photoshop skills!

I would like to see mirrorless with grip design as in this image, if this kind of hinge is sturdy I'm sure it allows compact carrying mode and very good grip when hinged forwards. And also I think I would love that grip because I could get my thumb easily in that deeper part.

What do you think, would this kind of concept work ?

I would think it would be too weak for anything except pancake lenses.

Greg
08-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #56
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It would be better just have a separate grip attachment than a hinged grip.
08-04-2010, 11:36 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by omega leader Quote
To people who don't read financial analysis regularly.

The Upside and Downside Risks sections of any analysis is the financial institution covering themselves against their customers. Here they list things that will have an impact upon the financial predictions listed.

I've seen everything from random speculation, to weather events, to nationalization listed (I'm often reading mineral analysis).

So all I can say is calm down. This is one underpaid post grads opinion.
Thank you for this opinion. Actually I can't undrestand why everyone trusts this source. I don't trust Citi at all. They make bad business, lie to the customers and the marketing model they applied here (wher I live) is almost to be called scam.
08-04-2010, 02:55 PM   #58
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I thought this article from back in May might be worth revisiting in conjunction with the Citi analysis:


Pentax won’t rule out mirrorless camera news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums


QuoteQuote:
Pentax engineers are continuing to pursue the possibility of launching a mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera, as the firm points to an 'exciting' few months ahead.

In a recent interview with Amateur Photographer, Pentax UK product co-ordinator Stephen Sanderson said Pentax's Japanese HQ has not ruled out the launch of such a camera at a future date.

He added: 'It's quite clear that we don't want to be seen as the same as everyone else. We would go down a different route.'
(emphasis mine)

Perhaps this is what is meant by "distinct." I'm curious to see what this alternate route for mirrorless will turn out to be.
08-04-2010, 03:04 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaitas Quote
This whole mirrorless thing is very interesting. I just want to post this kind of idea I had in mind. Bear in mind that this is just sketch of the method and in no scale whatsoever! I was a bit bored. this should not anyway be taken as a reference of my design or photoshop skills!

I would like to see mirrorless with grip design as in this image, if this kind of hinge is sturdy I'm sure it allows compact carrying mode and very good grip when hinged forwards. And also I think I would love that grip because I could get my thumb easily in that deeper part.

What do you think, would this kind of concept work ?

-J



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2655364/grip.JPG
Neat idea - something different than the predictable industry for sure. I'm not worried about the strength - that can be engineered. Besides, most people won't be hanging a DA* 60-250 F4 anytime soon - kind of defeats the purpose of the camera.

I'd just like to see a locking mechanism for the hinge. I'd hate to accidentally crush my thumb - that's all that separates me from apes!
08-04-2010, 03:21 PM   #60
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Actually I think that combined with a huge series of prime lenses, you may have just stumbled on the new, " Pentax, Evil, Optimus Prime, Transformer"! Now if they can just get the flux capacitor to work we should get ISO 1,200,000 out of this puppy!

Shu
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