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08-09-2010, 09:39 AM - 1 Like   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
For what it's worth, check out this video about the 2000 Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue. About 1:07 into the story, you get your first glimpse of what the photographer is using.
Yeah, he is using Heidi Klum. Good choice.

08-09-2010, 09:54 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Yeah, he is using Heidi Klum. Good choice.
I am going to start my open letter to pentax about how they should include a supermodel with every pro-level pentax camera body.
08-09-2010, 10:22 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by ewalk Quote

DA* 55mm
DA* 60-250mm
DA* 200mm
DA* 300mm
DA Limited 100mm Macro
Plus:

DA70 (yep that's one is debatable)
DA40
DFA50 macro
08-09-2010, 10:36 AM   #139
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Advertise

At least advertise. I'd rather see a beautiful woman with a Pentax than Ashton Kutcher with a Nikon. Nikon is trying to tap into the younger, trendier side of the market. I personally find the guy annoying.

Anyways, Pentax really needs to advertise. Sponsor some interesting sporting events, (Like the Red Bull Flugtag Races (official camera of the races?). In Chicago, the race draws a large crowd and is a blast to watch:

Red Bull Flugtag 2010 ? Miami, Twin Cities, Long Beach, Philadelphia


Give some high profile pros some free Pentax gear in exchange for the right to use their images (not sole ownership). Perhaps use the images in Pentax sponsored photography exhibits at the larger Art Museums around the US.

Sponsoring some photography groups or classes at large universities or high schools would be a good idea too. Young people can get hands on exposure to Pentax gear. Young people also have a lot of influence on the purchasing decisions of adults in their home.

I also thought of releasing the 31MM 1.8 Limited (possible future D-FA?) in both Canon and Nikon mounts. Not all of the Limiteds, just the 31MM. This would give Canon and Nikon users a chance to sample Pentax lenses and see how good they are. It would also bring money in the door for Pentax in lens sales. Nikon and Canon have over 80% of the photography market. Do something to get their users attention Pentax!

Good advertising more than pays for itself with sales. There is a lot of bad advertising out there so be smart about it.

In a nutshell, bring out the FullFrame Camera and support it with good advertising!!!



QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I am going to start my open letter to pentax about how they should include a supermodel with every pro-level pentax camera body.



Last edited by Angevinn; 08-09-2010 at 10:43 AM.
08-09-2010, 10:55 AM   #140
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1. Falk - thx again for spending significant time sharing your thoughts.

2. IMO the Official Pentax News section should not be subordinate to the New & Rumors section. Doing so gives the section a whiff of truth or officialness, which 99% of the posts don't deserve. There should be two separate sections - "Pentax News" and "Pentax Speculation"

3. Just my opinion, but there could be no better way to guarantee the failure of a new APS-C camera (K-r or K-7s or whatever it will be called) by saying, "but wait, there's a FF in our future." Just suggest a FF roadmap, and Pentaxicans will cling to their K10ds, K20ds, and K-7s until it happens, cratering sales of all semi-pro models until then. And the rest of the camera world? They don't care. A Pentax FF roadmap won't change a Canikon's camera plans one iota. Heck, most of them don't even know what a Pentax is. Thus, until it's announced, the only point of a Pentax FF roadmap would be to prevent defections of a very very small percentage of Pentaxicans.
08-09-2010, 11:28 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by ewalk Quote
Uh. Sarcasm? I wasn't really paying attention to the cameras if you get my drift...
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
1. Falk - thx again for spending significant time sharing your thoughts.

2. IMO the Official Pentax News section should not be subordinate to the New & Rumors section. Doing so gives the section a whiff of truth or officialness, which 99% of the posts don't deserve. There should be two separate sections - "Pentax News" and "Pentax Speculation"

3. Just my opinion, but there could be no better way to guarantee the failure of a new APS-C camera (K-r or K-7s or whatever it will be called) by saying, "but wait, there's a FF in our future." Just suggest a FF roadmap, and Pentaxicans will cling to their K10ds, K20ds, and K-7s until it happens, cratering sales of all semi-pro models until then. And the rest of the camera world? They don't care. A Pentax FF roadmap won't change a Canikon's camera plans one iota. Heck, most of them don't even know what a Pentax is. Thus, until it's announced, the only point of a Pentax FF roadmap would be to prevent defections of a very very small percentage of Pentaxicans.
I think part of the error here was assuming that a forum member cannot make Pentax news. Falk made Pentax news. Same with the shutter shake analysis.

You are absolutely correct about the capacity to stall or outright kill APS-C sales, especially lenses, with a "FF pending" stance. I suspect the K-blank (K-7 replacement) will be the last APS-C flagship for Pentax. After 2011 it's FF at that price point. From a capital perspective, I cannot see Canikon *not* extending their FF sensor development to a broader market. So Pentax follows here.

The way around this is to also take the stance that APS-C will exist for the foreseeable future (and it will) in a lower-end DSLR and almost certainly in the initial mirrorless offerings. This will allow those who have invested heavily in the DA lens system a path on and up.

In order to recoup mirrorless development costs and push the market volume, I see APS-C dominant for quite some time here. Price and value will rule this market, not ultimate performance or "pro" features (dig into menus; get used to face recognition). This jives very well with the DA Ltd's because of their already small form factor. The K-x could be cycled into a very low-price commodity offering, as is already the case with Canikon (Nikon is *still* manufacturing the D60).

I see APS-C low-end DSLR's occupying the sub-$500 market with kit lens.
APS-C mirrorless and DSLR in the mid $600-$1,200 point. What you get with the DSLR is more bulk but advanced controls and a real grip.
FF for flagship at $1,500+.

Pentax would have/need 4 bodies, but one could argue the mirrorless is taking up market space and resources from the superzoom and high-end P&S segment.

Canon has made some interesting statements about mirror systems recently. Waiting to see on that.
08-09-2010, 12:19 PM   #142
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Interesting article. It presents plausible arguments for the positions it takes. But I still have some doubts.

"So, [Pentax] shoud be predestined to offer the first ergonomic outdoor 20MP+ full frame dSLR in the enthusiast market segment (~$1200 to ~$1800). This could make their market share explode."

It would be nice if this were true, but I doubt that it is. The market for an FF Pentax, even at that price point, would seem largely limited to current Pentax users who own a stable of FF glass. How big a market segment is that?

"In mid 2008 though, they seem to have changed direction again and almost no new lenses have been introduced."

Did they really change direction? Or are the lack of new lenses since 2008 a function of the bad global economy and all the money the company lost in 2009?

"note: on full frame, the 60-250 has slight vignetting and drop of corner sharpness at the tele end which can be cured in post-processing"

Even slight vignetting is problematic for a lens at this price point. Moreover, I've heard that there are FF vignetting issues with the DA* 300 from f4 to f5. I have doubts whether Pentax could really market these expensive star lenses as FF glass if they really do have these vignetting issues.

There is the additional problem of Pentax's not terribly great record with roadmaps. How much credibility would such a roadmap have, considering previous failures to deliver all the items on their lens roadmaps? And if they did announce an intention to introduce an FF camera, wouldn't they also have emphasize their continued commitment to their APS-C cameras, in order to reassure Pentax users who have invested heavily in APS-C glass and to prevent an aversion to buying new APS-C glass?
08-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #143
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I use my DA*300 on my old MXs and LXs all the time wide open. No hint of vignetting.

08-09-2010, 02:44 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Canon has made some interesting statements about mirror systems recently. Waiting to see on that.
Link?
08-09-2010, 02:55 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

Tell me what you think. Shall we make it an Open Letter to Pentax?
Useless, send it to Cosina, they have the guts to bring high quality niche products
Their Voigtlander line of lenses and rangefinders, and even the Epson RD1, prove that.

I would love a 35mm digital manual reflex to go with the Cosina made manual lenses.
Make it KA mount (not crippled), decent focussing screen, and I think quite a lot of the older Pentaxians will buy one.
08-09-2010, 03:06 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Link?
At the bottom, repeated elsewhere:

Canon Rumors
08-09-2010, 03:11 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
At least advertise.
Good point. They advertise here in Japan, but there presence is a bit mixed. At the CP show in Yokohama this past March they had booth bunnies:

photos by m. werneburg | emuu.net

(iPhone pic, sorry)

Which the Japanese photog's love (they come as much to shoot the girls as anything, just like Akihabara). But they also had a print from the 645 that was made on two board that were bolted together. It didn't really do the large sensor platform justice, IMHO.

photos by m. werneburg | emuu.net

Compared with the huge banner prints from Ricoh's tiny-sensor GXR, it seemed all the more under-ambitious.

Ricoh GXR poster | emuu.net

QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Sponsoring some photography groups or classes at large universities or high schools would be a good idea too. Young people can get hands on exposure to Pentax gear. Young people also have a lot of influence on the purchasing decisions of adults in their home.
That's an excellent idea. Check out this queue of photog's who wanted a look at the 645. All oyajis (middle aged dudes). That may be a symptom of the camera in question, but it could also be that Pentax is largely a brand remembered by the (male) 40+ crowd.

queueing for the digital medium format | emuu.net

(again, crappy iPhone pic)

The K-x was a huge step in the right direction. At a Yodobashi camera on the weekend, I asked the fellow how the new Sony NEX cameras were selling, and he said, "well". Then I asked about the K-x and he told me that they were recently their "most popular" camera. That said, they did have about twenty color variations on display, some of them incorporating jarring mis-matched panels that were quite eye-catching if nothing else.

QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
I also thought of releasing the 31MM 1.8 Limited (possible future D-FA?) in both Canon and Nikon mounts. Not all of the Limiteds, just the 31MM. This would give Canon and Nikon users a chance to sample Pentax lenses and see how good they are. It would also bring money in the door for Pentax in lens sales. Nikon and Canon have over 80% of the photography market. Do something to get their users attention Pentax!
So why not sell all of the Ltd lenses for those mounts?
08-09-2010, 03:35 PM   #148
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Roadmaps and Journeys

As I've noted elsewhere, I deal with sales staff and their companies' roadmaps regularly. Roadmaps are helpful to buyers and sellers alike under certain circumstances:

They generally say, implicitly or explicitly, "We're not there yet but we have a solid roadmap to get to where you want to go by the time you're ready."

Used by:

Small firms that are expanding into new areas and technologies. They may not have a track record but they get credibility from showing that they understand the market place and the technologies. They have a clear plan that makes sense to buyer and seller alike. Buyers may bring some of the sellers products in to try or may defer buying decisions to see if the new firm can bring a credible (perhaps alternative) offer into the market.

Established firms that don't (yet) provide needed products but are working hard to keep existing customers from straying. The aim is to get customers to defer decisions, to wait until they see the seller's (full frame) product.

Firms throwing up a warning to would-be competitors - "Stay out of our market!"

IBM got into legal trouble with the last two approaches, IIRC. It's called "overhanging the market". It's only troublesome when a large company so dominates a market that a roadmap can freeze others out. Pentax is not worrying about being seen as the dominant player. I think.

Firms that need good press and are not generating enough with current business.

Businesses that simply want to be on good terms with existing and potential customers. In that case it's more a matter of being transparent than an aggressive response to a particular competitor or situation.

I see real roadmaps, wishful-thinking roadmaps, and sheer vaporware. I appreciate the former.

I think it's time right now for Pentax to produce one, followed at a reasonable time by real products.

Otherwise people will be journeying in another direction. Falk's perturbation is not a myth.
08-09-2010, 03:43 PM   #149
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Thanks for the careful read of my article. Much appreciated.

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
It would be nice if this were true, but I doubt that it is. The market for an FF Pentax, even at that price point, would seem largely limited to current Pentax users who own a stable of FF glass. How big a market segment is that?
Let's hope you're not correct. I know from various sources that Hoya wants to increase the market share of the Pentax brand. That's (and mirrorless) is their only hope. To make a big splash like the K10D did.

5D2 and D700 are both rather crippled and limited cameras (when compared to, e.g., a K-7). Let alone the A850. I've seen a few Pentaxians return because of the underwhelming user experience. Although they have been overwhelmed by the image quality.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the street. And Pentax is the other side for many
QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Did they really change direction? Or are the lack of new lenses since 2008 a function of the bad global economy and all the money the company lost in 2009?
I am under the impression that Hoya has dramatically slowed down the investments into what appears to be a pretty complete line of DA lenses. Recent lens releases have been full frame. Various conclusions are possible indeed. Mine is one. Others may be able to tell you more about this though...
QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
"note: on full frame, the 60-250 has slight vignetting and drop of corner sharpness at the tele end which can be cured in post-processing"

Even slight vignetting is problematic for a lens at this price point. Moreover, I've heard that there are FF vignetting issues with the DA* 300 from f4 to f5.
I'll going to study this in greater detail before Photokina. All test shots are made. I just need to find the time to evaluate them and write the article.

It seems that vignetting appears to be more pronounced with high resolution B&W film (aka document film) which is used by many for testing lenses (at least, I did). I am under the impression that visible (but partial) vignetting with high resolution B&W film could be lived with when using a dSLR. Any independent source which looked into this would be appreciated though.
08-09-2010, 04:02 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Interesting article. It presents plausible arguments for the positions it takes. But I still have some doubts.

<snip>

There is the additional problem of Pentax's not terribly great record with roadmaps. How much credibility would such a roadmap have, considering previous failures to deliver all the items on their lens roadmaps? And if they did announce an intention to introduce an FF camera, wouldn't they also have emphasize their continued commitment to their APS-C cameras, in order to reassure Pentax users who have invested heavily in APS-C glass and to prevent an aversion to buying new APS-C glass?
Roadmaps were discussed above.

If the new weather-resistant EVIL is the start of a new line, we may have a home for that APS-C glass.

And speaking of small bodies, perhaps we need an entirely new form factor to accommodate APS-C glass and a mirrorless body, so that the camera does not look and feel like a "beer can attached to a cigarette packet". I love the description. I'd like to give proper attribution to it but I cannot recall where I saw it.

Perhaps the "works" are built into a hand-friendly grip to which the lens is attached? I see a real problem regarding the security services if the device looks like a pistol from Rocky Jones, Space Ranger.

Anyone want to take up the design challenge and open a thread? I'd do that myself but I'm sure I'd put it in the wrong section and I've been chastised once already.
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