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08-13-2010, 04:51 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The idea that all of this tech is going to come together and sell for 1800 dollars is ludicrous.
Even if you were able to sell a FF body for 1800 (street price), would that automatically kill desire for cameras like the K7? Eh...I'm not so sure. What if you were someone looking to get more serious about photography (stepping up from P&S or getting back into it after retirement) and you had to choose between an $1800 FF camera with no lens....or spending that same amount of money for a K7 and a 50-135 f2.8...or maybe a Kx, a 50-135, and a 17-70? What would let you grow faster?

08-13-2010, 05:10 AM   #317
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Maybe someone has already answered this earlier in the thread, but why does the conversation about a $1800 Pentax FF camera keep going when you have the Sony A850 available for right around $1999-$1900? Sony did exactly what many are saying Pentax should do and it hasn't really helped them at all in terms of gaining users/marketshare or any significant traction against Nikon or Canon.

Honestly, I think a better use of resources would be a durable, weather-sealed APS-C mirrorless interchangeable camera that includes an adaptor for legacy K-mount lenses and on-the-body controls and buttons similar to the K-7. Price it at or under what Sony's NEX models are selling for and I'm sure you'd see a lot of photographers, including those who already own Nikon and Canon FF models consider purchasing one - especially given the control/button/menu complaints about the NEX and the relatively smaller sensor size of the current Panasonic and Olympus m4/3 models.
08-13-2010, 05:17 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Consider what a FF buyer will spend. Maybe $2500-3000 for a body and $5000 -10,000 in lenses, flashes and accessories. That's worth a lot to any company. Pentax doesn't get a single one of those deals now and looses High end APSc shooters to other brands when the shooter wants/needs more.
It might be considerably less than that, at least if this crowd's answers are any indication. More like $1500–$2000 for the body and only $1000 for lenses. See the link below.

QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Look at Pentax users as a whole, I bet as a demographic we are mostly older (40+) year old, white guys with decent household incomes. I don't believe Pentax has captured much of the youth market or retained much of a presence among the really affluent consumers like doctors and lawyers like Canon and Nikon have. Pentax has a very small market share.
There's certain a disproportionate slant towards (well-educated) males among this group, but age-wise the Pentax enthusiast crowd on this forum is well distributed. Again, see the results at the link below:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/110002-how-much-wo...ml#post1138308
08-13-2010, 06:11 AM   #319
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For those folks who are needing a FF camera....what if Pentax does what they did with the 645D? What if they take an existing design (MZ-D) and put a current FF sensor in it? Assuming that the autofocus, fps, etc... would be about the same as the K7, would that be sufficient to keep you in the Pentax camp for the time being?

08-13-2010, 06:33 AM   #320
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645d

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
For those folks who are needing a FF camera....what if Pentax does what they did with the 645D? What if they take an existing design (MZ-D) and put a current FF sensor in it? Assuming that the autofocus, fps, etc... would be about the same as the K7, would that be sufficient to keep you in the Pentax camp for the time being?
At 40 megapixels, I would challenge experts to see if they could tell the difference between shots from a 645D and a FF camera.

I also thought I read someone stated you can't buy one here in the US. I found them on eBay. No, I am not getting one.
08-13-2010, 06:43 AM   #321
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This forum is becoming nauseous,I would rather be out shooting than waste time in fantasy land.People GET A LIFE.
08-13-2010, 07:21 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
What if they take an existing design (MZ-D) and put a current FF sensor in it?
Yes, I would be content even with this kind of body with current FF sensor and AF/imaging engines.
08-13-2010, 07:29 AM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by kryss Quote
This forum is becoming nauseous,I would rather be out shooting than waste time in fantasy land.People GET A LIFE.
Ditto to that.....

I reckon some guys should sell up ALL of their Pentax gear, pool their funds together and start their own 100% dedicated FF camera business.

08-13-2010, 07:56 AM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
At 40 megapixels, I would challenge experts to see if they could tell the difference between shots from a 645D and a FF camera.

I also thought I read someone stated you can't buy one here in the US. I found them on eBay. No, I am not getting one.
That would be easy: the mushy one is the "FF"
For now, it looks like they can't make enough of them, to sell world wide. But eventually they will.
08-13-2010, 08:10 AM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
At 40 megapixels, I would challenge experts to see if they could tell the difference between shots from a 645D and a FF camera.
If you print 10cmx15cm of course, but that would be a bit stupid wouldn't it ?
What posters/big ads for perfume and such ?

QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
I also thought I read someone stated you can't buy one here in the US. I found them on eBay. No, I am not getting one.
Not yet but coming, I wouldn't buy from Ebay either. Just wait.
08-13-2010, 08:53 AM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
For those folks who are needing a FF camera....what if Pentax does what they did with the 645D? What if they take an existing design (MZ-D) and put a current FF sensor in it? Assuming that the autofocus, fps, etc... would be about the same as the K7, would that be sufficient to keep you in the Pentax camp for the time being?
I will be very satisfied if Pentax has K7 body + FF sensor
Then I will be happily "getting a life" instead of being here...
08-13-2010, 10:07 AM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I would not be surprised if you are wrong on both accounts.
FF must be a disaster for Sony. The low salesvolume of their FF models must make them a money drain.
I would not be surprised if Sony drops the whole Alpha line in the next five years or so. A market share that low with Sony's model line-up and distribution and marketingpower is nothing short of mind blowing.

So you think it is more likely that Sony will abandon FF and that Pentax will introduce a FF in the near future? Who will Pentax be buying FF sensors from then? Canon is not going to sell sensors to Pentax.

Canon introduced HD video to the market just as Sony released the A900 and HD video changed the market segment. Wedding and event photographers are the main purchasers of the FF bodies at this price point and HD video is a huge feature for this segment. Not even Canon knew how big HD video was going to be. Sony will introduce a new FF that will excel at HD video and high ISO. Sony is not going to throw in the towel after just 1 attempt at the FF market. It does not matter how much marketing power Sony has if the cameras don't have the features that customers want. Had HD video not been released with the 5DII, I think the Sony A900 would have been a success. It is better than the 5DII is almost every way except for real high-ISO and video. The A900 has 100% VF, faster AF, better body, in-body IS, better color and is a really good camera to work with. As a long time & current Canon 5D user I think the A900 is more of what I am looking for in a 5D replacement than the 5DII, but I have zero need for HD video.

When Pentax announces a new D-FA 24-70 f/2.8, then I will believe they are moving back to FF.

Sony will have 4 bodies to show next month.
08-13-2010, 11:02 AM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Even if you were able to sell a FF body for 1800 (street price), would that automatically kill desire for cameras like the K7? Eh...I'm not so sure. What if you were someone looking to get more serious about photography (stepping up from P&S or getting back into it after retirement) and you had to choose between an $1800 FF camera with no lens....or spending that same amount of money for a K7 and a 50-135 f2.8...or maybe a Kx, a 50-135, and a 17-70? What would let you grow faster?
The K-7 body can already handle an FF sensor.

If you buy the Thom Hogan argument that an FF sensor is $500 more expensive than an APS-C sensor, then Pentax could, relatively swiftly, put out a $2,000 FF model and still keep the K-7 or its successor at $1,300 MSRP.

There are all sorts of issues surrounding price points and who supplies the sensor, SR, video, etc. But the real issue is how to have a satisfactory lens array for such a beast.

The long run concern is that the more FF's get sold, the fast the sensor price drops, eventually moving the MSRP price point down down, down to push the APS-C aside completely. This would apply to DSLR's and mirrorless cameras. This would impact more recent APS-C lens investments by Pentaxians.

Competitively, this scenario is a possibility for Canikon and Sony. In fact,it's inevitable.

If you think the discussion is getting "nauseous" don't read it, or, better yet, head on down to the local camera store and try a D700 for some soothing therapy.
08-13-2010, 12:06 PM   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The K-7 body can already handle an FF sensor.

If you buy the Thom Hogan argument that an FF sensor is $500 more expensive than an APS-C sensor, then Pentax could, relatively swiftly, put out a $2,000 FF model and still keep the K-7 or its successor at $1,300 MSRP.
The cost of changing a piece of hardware at that low level is not just the price difference in the piece of hardware itself (the cost of producing a FF sensor is at least 2.5x and probably closer to 3x or more than an APS-C sensor).

A change at that low level would require completely different PCBs, firmware, and if you are talking about a lot more pixels you are talking about more memory and faster hardware and all of these incur engineering expenses that have to be spread out across the expected total sales of a product.
08-13-2010, 12:08 PM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by kryss Quote
this forum is becoming nauseous,i would rather be out shooting than waste time in fantasy land.people get a life.
right!
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