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08-17-2010, 03:31 PM   #511
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Another way of looking at it is:

Maybe near = next 3-6 months
mid = 6-15 months
long = 15+ months


Near term: APS-C DLSR (continuous improvement)
Mid-term: Same plus APS-C EVIL (first major addition to line, continuous improvement after)
Long term: FF DSLR plus APS-C EVIL (major shift to FF)

with plenty of overlap during the transitions and announcements/roadmaps made judiciously.

08-17-2010, 05:26 PM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
If you want to pixel peep, the new Pentax 645D with the new D-FA 55 2.8 shows a lot of CA when the images are blown up. You can check the image samples here:

645D Manza Hotel | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

The highlights in the clouds are somewhat blown and the windows of the hotel show chromatic aberration.
This statement is false.

The aberration isn't CA, it is color moiré from the missing AA filter in the 645D like most other digital MFs. It serves as a great example that AA filters are a necessity with Bayer sensors.

I've commented this before, even in the comment section of the article the image was published in.
08-18-2010, 12:05 AM   #513
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
Shalom!

Yes the Nikon Sb900 and Canon EX580 MKii

Both in comparison to the Af540 are built far more sturdy and stronger than the Pentax flash.

Have environmental seals and a far more solid build and feel.

It's really the ONLY major area I can fault Pentax now is the lack of a suitably built flash to match.

Thanks, Christopher. I wasn't aware that top N and C flashes had environmental seals...
08-18-2010, 04:43 AM   #514
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Funny, but here in France (don't know about Europe), Pentax has a pretty good representation...

Every brand has about the same "street" share (what you see around the necks)... A little bit more for canikon, little bit less for Sonympus, but you get the idea...

In my immediate entourage (family and coworkers), I even know more pentaxians than any other brand...
I understand that the French regard themselves as being a very logical people, whereas the rest of the world tends to view them as a nation of aesthetes. I'd say that this national fondness for Pentax supports both of these views.

08-18-2010, 05:30 AM   #515
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
My regular reminder

This thread is more about if Pentax shall continue to leave Pentaxians in the dark about their FF plans or not. And FF plans they have.
And that tells you all that you need to know, really.

You're probably right about this (twofold) prediction, but I differ with you as to the wisdom of Pentax's silence. Let's break this down:

QuoteQuote:
And FF plans they have
Almost certainly. Pentax understand very well that the existence of an FF product in their lineup has benefits that extend well beyond the actual number of FF bodies purchased: it reassures potential new Pentaxians that they have a viable upgrade path, whether or not they actually need it.

Besides, I'm convinced that it would be far less difficult to produce a FF body than (say) a new EVIL/MILC system. Most of the requisite technology already exists: it just needs to be repackaged.

QuoteQuote:
Pentax shall continue to leave Pentaxians in the dark about their FF plans
If this is true, it is something of a gamble, but it's also a gamble to pre-announce a major new product line. We have all seen that Apple's dramatic resurgence in the past several years, and you can be sure that executive strategists all around the world have paid close attention to Apple's 'lessons learned'. And one of Apple's key strategies has been to not pre-announce products in order to reduce cannibalisation of existing sales and avoid the embarrassment of not meeting their own deadlines.

There is simply no risk-free option here: either option has very real downsides. But Pentax has had some bad experiences with premature announcements in the recent past, and Apple's success with an alternative strategy must present an appealing alternative for Pentax/Hoya's executives.
08-18-2010, 06:12 AM   #516
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To me, one of the most telling indicators of Pentax's intentions is their decision to come out with the 50-135 f2.8, rather than an f2.8 version of an 80-200. That has "APS-C" written all over it. If you look at the Canikon offerings, they kept their 80-200's, which makes me think that they've always intended to bump it on up to FF. Also...regarding video...someone made the point that image stabilization was important with video. That's pretty true, especially with smaller cameras. Since Pentax has in-camera stabilization, that would seem to give them a marketing advantage over Canon and Nikon if they could just bring their video up to being more competitive. And, one last thing...what if Pentax came out with an APS-H camera? Something with a little bigger sensor to help with the high ISO, but less expensive than FF. Many folks think that Pentax's current lenses would work with a FF camera even though Pentax doesn't label them as such, so couldn't they cover an APS-H sensor pretty easily? Eh...it's a thought.
08-18-2010, 06:28 AM - 1 Like   #517
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
To me, one of the most telling indicators of Pentax's intentions is their decision to come out with the 50-135 f2.8, rather than an f2.8 version of an 80-200. That has "APS-C" written all over it.
That's clearly true. However, that was also several years ago, and we haven't seen anything so clear more recently.
08-18-2010, 06:58 AM   #518
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
I differ with you as to the wisdom of Pentax's silence.
[...]
one of Apple's key strategies has been to not pre-announce products
I hoped I had touched this in my article.

Only because there are arguments pro and contra something, doesn't mean that an optimum decision doesn't exist. It just requires a more careful analysis, going beyond a mere exchange of qualitative arguments.

In this particular case, you don't announce your leading key innovations ahead of time. You try to make splash hit appearances like the S-class Anti-lock braking system, the K10D's shake reduction, the iPhone etc. And you announce ahead of time that you will eliminate deficit areas as soon as possible in markets which are an eco-system. Like Hybrid motors, uncropped sensor, touchscreen phones from non Apple etc.

I would say that an SLD camera should be released with no pre announcements at all and removal of the sensor crop should be assured as soon as possible. Heck, Pentax already assured that they will bring larger, less cropped sensors for the 645D line of cameras...

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
To me, one of the most telling indicators of Pentax's intentions is their decision to come out with the 50-135 f2.8, rather than an f2.8 version of an 80-200.
Yes, 2003 - mid 2008 marks a period of a clear APS-C only strategy at Pentax. I have reasons to believe that Hoya cancelled that strategy mid 2008. Now, Pentax treats the matter in a more pragmatic, "when" rather than "if", manner. But their loyal customers don't know it. What my entire article is about, actually.


One last note:

I am totally against the introduction of APS-H sensors from Pentax. That would create a complete mess and probably kill Pentax. You can build an APS-H camera if you already sell FF cameras. If and only if. IMHO.


Last edited by falconeye; 08-18-2010 at 07:05 AM.
08-18-2010, 07:08 AM   #519
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I hoped I had touched this in my article.

Only because there are arguments pro and contra something, doesn't mean that an optimum decision doesn't exist. It just requires a more careful analysis, going beyond a mere exchange of qualitative arguments.

In this particular case, you don't announce your leading key innovations ahead of time. You try to make splash hit appearances like the S-class Anti-lock braking system, the K10D's shake reduction, the iPhone etc. And you announce ahead of time that you will eliminate deficit areas as soon as possible in markets which are an eco-system. Like Hybrid motors, uncropped sensor, touchscreen phones from non Apple etc.

I would say that an SLD camera should be released with no pre announcements at all and removal of the sensor crop should be assured as soon as possible.


Yes, 2003 - mid 2008 marks a period of a clear APS-C only strategy at Pentax. I have reasons to believe that Hoya cancelled that strategy mid 2008. Now, Pentax treats the matter in a more pragmatic, "when" rather than "if", manner. But their loyal customers don't know it. What my entire article is about, actually.
There's definitively a "when" for FF for any brand that want to stay fr long in the market, however, many people believe that APSC has only a few years to live. I believe on the contrary that APSC have still long to live for people looking for a more compact system at a price of a sligth decrease of quality. (regardless of price)

The same tradeof exist between FF and Medium Format. MF will eventually see high performance CMOS sensors like there is with FF and APSC. And will get an absolute hedge on quality (well it already has, just it will have more) then people will "pros work with MF" .... Won't be true of course, but now you already find some pros working with APSC and not the latest ones.
08-18-2010, 07:26 AM   #520
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Yes, 2003 - mid 2008 marks a period of a clear APS-C only strategy at Pentax. I have reasons to believe that Hoya cancelled that strategy mid 2008. Now, Pentax treats the matter in a more pragmatic, "when" rather than "if", manner.
I don't know. It still looks like they're releasing more products that say "if" than "when". If they truly believe it's a matter of "when", you'd think they'd be laying more groundwork.
08-18-2010, 07:27 AM   #521
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I am totally against the introduction of APS-H sensors from Pentax. That would create a complete mess and probably kill Pentax. You can build an APS-H camera if you already sell FF cameras. If and only if. IMHO.
Yes, I cringe each time I see someone talking about APS-H or fancy square sensors. Not only you would still be at disadvantage compared to FF, you would need to rebuild almost a complete new line of lenses and moreover you would not get any third party support. And you would also have a very limited selection of sensors to choose from if any. Canon can do an APS-H camera because they build their own sensors and they have a full line of professional FF cameras.
OTOH, FF sensors could be available from Sony (or even Samsung). The K mount doesn't need any modification. Just bring a couple of wide angle zooms and update some old designs. Not unsurmountable even for a small player.

QuoteOriginally posted by asw66:
and avoid the embarrassment of not meeting their own deadlines.
Hmm yes in the past Pentax has made many annoucements that were cancelled or much delayed: MZ-D (cancelled), *ist D (delayed), DA* 60-250mm (much delayed), 645D (much delayed, cancelled then recalled...). So I'm not sure how much credibility an announcement on future FF plans would have?
08-18-2010, 07:28 AM   #522
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I would say that an SLD camera should be released with no pre announcements at all and removal of the sensor crop should be assured as soon as possible. Heck, Pentax already assured that they will bring larger, less cropped sensors for the 645D line of cameras...
Announcing a larger MF sensor will not keep people from buying the current 645D, more likely encouraging the buyers to buy into the system as it will be even better soon with less crop. Besides, as I understand the new D-FA 645 lenses do cover MF "full frame" and are not worthless as sensor size increases.

Announcing a FF would to a large extent kill the higher line DA glass (DA*). At least until the FF cam is fully announced with spec and price. The uncertainties are more dangerous for DA lens sales than a prescence of a known FF cam.

Imho also
08-18-2010, 08:52 AM   #523
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I'm not sure about this; remember Osborne Computer? (I wouldn't be surprised if you don't ).
08-18-2010, 09:07 AM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm not sure about this; remember Osborne Computer? (I wouldn't be surprised if you don't ).
You mean, the company being taken as example every day on these exact forums?
08-18-2010, 09:21 AM   #525
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