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08-20-2010, 08:14 AM   #571
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Maybe...but maybe not. One thing that I think you guys are overlooking is that the market for FF pics among the pro crowd is diminishing, not growing. Still photography is primarily a print-driven media. It's no secret that the market for newpapers and magazines is shrinking at an incredible rate. Even commercial advertising photography is largely dependent upon print media. So, once our print media is gone, who will want high-quality stills? That just leaves the enthusiast market...and that's a pretty divided area.
QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Good book, I bought it but I don't find it fantastic, it's a bit dry compared to Peterson's books. Although Peterson is maybe too commercial...
I like both, but Peterson is more sentimental and a cliche photographer. Which is fine because that's by far the majority of the market and the vernacular attempt. He's the average person's "make it better and understand how" photographer. His contributions to photography are indispensable.

Freeman is about composition, style, mood, and moment. He tells you why a photo is visually arresting, and hints at why one photo is "better" than another in composition and choices made through the VF. He helps not just make a better exposure, but how make photographic art.

My 2 bit summaries.

08-20-2010, 08:15 AM   #572
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The big concern for pros is "pixel peeping" of their work and maintaining fidelity at very high resolution on very large screens in the future.
Where do you see these very large, high resolution screens being used? I'm having trouble coming up with a viable scenario for this.
08-20-2010, 08:16 AM   #573
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QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
They outsourced their MF sensor from Kodak, and Kodak has 35mm sized sensors on sale too.
The Kodak sensor is not marketable, it's CCD with no live view, no video and poor high-ISO.
08-20-2010, 08:33 AM   #574
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
The Kodak sensor is not marketable, it's CCD with no live view, no video and poor high-ISO.
It's cool....No video. Anyway, video and LV is real with CCD.

High ISO from M9 is not bad at all. It's a question of software.

08-20-2010, 11:15 AM   #575
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
Samsung certainly designed and manufactured sensor for Samsung in the first place, Pentax was welcome to share the cost (or provide a guaranteed market). What worked well for Pentax was Sony sensor in Kx, not Samsung sensor in K7.
You're saying this, but is it the truth?
Can you name the Samsung cameras, for which that sensor was developed? Maybe Samsung had plans for the NX or some DSLRs they never made, but the sensor was made for and used in Pentax cameras.
08-20-2010, 11:42 AM   #576
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You're saying this, but is it the truth?
Can you name the Samsung cameras, for which that sensor was developed? Maybe Samsung had plans for the NX or some DSLRs they never made, but the sensor was made for and used in Pentax cameras.
Samsung, not Pentax, had plans to become the N1 in dSLR and unlike Nikon who was the established name and can live for a while with Sony Semiconductor sensors which they started to use when Sony Imaging was nowhere near dSLR business themselves - Samsung was determined to make sensors for their cameras themselves as they have knowledge, technology and manufacturing capabilities and were interested to compete w/ Sony companies on all fronts and they did... as for using Pentax cameras - they simply decided to try to use Kmount because they were not considering Pentax as something that was a threat or competition (competition for Samsuns were certainly C/N/S) and Pentax agreed to exchange...

eventually Samsung plan w/ dSLRs did not happen, so they switched to NX line and continue to work on its sensor according to its plans (this time for NX) and that was what Pentax had to use in K7.

You can continue to believe that Samsung was interested to develop sensors for a minor player and not for its own announced plans to dominate the market.
08-20-2010, 12:50 PM   #577
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
Ok, to make it more clear for you - why Sony Imaging is not asking Sony Semiconductor to make it ? or Nikon for that matter... Pentax just have neither money nor potential to sell enough for Sony Semiconductor to bother itself w/ anything but selling what they designed for Sony Imaging already... Pentax is free to take it and tune it further on its own, which they certainly can, but that's it.



sure, it just cost something otherwise we will have APS-H sensors hanging on every tree in da hood.



Samsumg certainly designed and manufactured sensor for Samsung in the first place, Pentax was welcome to share the cost (or provide a guaranteed market). What worked well for Pentax was Sony sensor in Kx, not Samsung sensor in K7.
deejjjaaaa I think you answered your own question. Sony Semiconductor isn't making an APS-H sensor because Sony Imaging didn't ask them too. As you pointed out Nikon hasn't ask them to either.

Most everything cost something that is a given. A larger sensor would most likely incur higher cost.

The Samsung sensor in my K-7 has worked very well for me. I don't see why it didn't work well for Pentax either. As I said the partnership between Pentax and Samsung has been very fruitful. With more competition the better the technologies get.

An APS-H sensor works better for Pentax's lens line up too.
08-20-2010, 01:08 PM   #578
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
Samsung, not Pentax, had plans to become the N1 in dSLR
[...]
You can continue to believe that Samsung was interested to develop sensors for a minor player and not for its own announced plans to dominate the market.
You 're avoiding my question. With which cameras did Samsung tried to become no 1?
The sensor was designed for the cameras it was used on. But, you can believe otherwise...

08-20-2010, 02:13 PM   #579
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You 're avoiding my question. With which cameras did Samsung tried to become no 1?
The sensor was designed for the cameras it was used on. But, you can believe otherwise...
Samsung made a statement last year about planning on becoming #1 in the EVIL camera market over the next few years. I believe they expect to claim 30% of the market share.

Samsung has been pretty busy developing sensors, but we have not seen any of their new sensors released yet.
08-20-2010, 03:17 PM   #580
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote

The Samsung sensor in my K-7 has worked very well for me. I don't see why it didn't work well for Pentax either.

Perhaps the answer is in the relative sales volume of the K7 and Kx. A camera with the features and build of the K7 should sell better. Perhaps the sensor contribution to IQ turned buyers away - It did me.
08-20-2010, 03:29 PM   #581
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
Perhaps the answer is in the relative sales volume of the K7 and Kx. A camera with the features and build of the K7 should sell better. Perhaps the sensor contribution to IQ turned buyers away - It did me.
The K-7 only suffers at high ISO. At base ISO it has excellent IQ and in many ways better color and tonal range an any of the competitors. DR is probably the biggest weakness.
08-20-2010, 03:38 PM   #582
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
At base ISO it has excellent IQ and in many ways better color and tonal range an any of the competitors.
beaten in both areas by Kx, even normalized for print to account for different amount of pixels according to DxOMark.

PS: at lowest ISO its DR is less than tiny P&S sensor from panasonic in LX3 has

Last edited by deejjjaaaa; 08-20-2010 at 03:46 PM.
08-20-2010, 03:42 PM   #583
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You 're avoiding my question. With which cameras did Samsung tried to become no 1?
The sensor was designed for the cameras it was used on. But, you can believe otherwise...
with cameras that have Samsung logo on them... not Pentax, Pentax was supposed to be a jackal tolerated while Samsung will take on real players... That was Samsung line of thinking, they failed w/ dSLRs, now they try w/ EVIL cameras...
08-20-2010, 03:43 PM   #584
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Are you guys still at this? Like an endless spiral staircase
I can't wait till the show and the next debate thread gets started.
08-20-2010, 04:47 PM   #585
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
Perhaps the answer is in the relative sales volume of the K7 and Kx. A camera with the features and build of the K7 should sell better. Perhaps the sensor contribution to IQ turned buyers away - It did me.
I don't know how you can compare relative sales volume of the K-7 and Kx as they are totally different target markets at different target prices or how we know whether or not the K-7 with its features and build should sell better. To my knowledge only Pentax and Hoya have access to such data.

I find it a pity people for some reason perceive the image quality of the K-7 somehow to be inferior in regards to what standards I am not sure to keep people from buying one. At no point owning the K-7 have I said to myself if only I had such and such sensor my images would be better. The K-7 to my eyes produce images with a very film like look with a better sense of space than the more plastic digital smoothed over look of similar cameras. The K-7 is a great camera to work with ergonomically for me there isn't a better camera on the market.

Of course I am all for an improved K-7. Lets hope Photokina brings continued success from Pentax.
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