Photokina 2010, Pentax and the full frame mystery

falconeye · 08-07-2010, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by uccemebug

I wonder if any of these bloggers has done any surveying to find out what the marketing realities are regarding enthusiast interests? We've had one long poll on lenses recently, and another (one question?) FF/EVIL query. But has anyone asked the broader 'Pentax enthusiast' crowd (hopefully a superset, not just this forum) about their interest level in actually *buying* a FF DSLR? For instance:

1. How much would you pay for a new FF DSLR body?
2. How much would you pay for a new FF DSLR system?

To my knowledge there's not been a concerted effort to form an advocacy group for Pentax, has there? Or to do a any work to derive at some consensus on recommended products?

Is there no interest in doing so? Has any past attempt failed? If so, was it due to apathy? For instance, if I put together a thread with a survey, would I even get ten responses?

Actually, I'm going to try it.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/110002-how-much-wo...ml#post1133665

There.

Good initiative!

I participate and invite others to do as well. As always, one would like to know more before answering this kind of questions. But hey, if you know it all, you don't need no surveys, right?

Good initiative and so I bumped this post a bit

Blue · 08-07-2010, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by emr

While I agree that they should either bring a FF camera or at least give a proper roadmap, I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's ass about an open letter from some camera forum. Especially as many here actively oppose a FF camera by Pentax.

. . . not to mention those that are clamoring in the opposite direction for an EVIL body.

Originally posted by emr

With due respect, the 645D does not probably work all that well with the FF-capable K mount lenses most members have.

It does work with existing 645 lenses, especially the FA ones. The film bodies were pretty much a pro system as is the 645d.

Originally posted by eigelb

moved to - Off-Topic Forums > General Talk ?????

is someone hating FF cameras?

Not as much as EVIL cams!!!!!

deejjjaaaa · 08-07-2010, 07:28 PM

can somebody move this thread where it belongs, to rumors or news sections, please

emr · 08-07-2010, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Blue

It does work with existing 645 lenses, especially the FA ones. The film bodies were pretty much a pro system as is the 645d.

Blue, the point was that if there isn't that much point in calling the 645D an upgrade option for Pentax APS-C DSLR users if no lens or accessory of theirs would work and they'd have to start from scratch.

Blue · 08-08-2010, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by emr

Blue, the point was that if there isn't that much point in calling the 645D an upgrade option for Pentax APS-C DSLR users if no lens or accessory of theirs would work and they'd have to start from scratch.

When you state that way that's true. If an EVIL body that has a different lens mount is released, it will be the same thing.

**monochrome** · 08-08-2010, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

A "zero point" user infraction is a user infraction. Let's keep the facts straight. Btw, the user infraction page (I quoted in post #86) doesn't mention infraction points anyway.

As a matter of fact, you made me upset. Not by the infraction (that's seems to be a Mods game I don't care about anyway). But about moving my thread to the section where creationists hang out. And I still am. That's all what counts as far as I and my motivation to provide content here, are concerned.

P.S.
Adam expects you to move the thread back ...

And a section that I intentionally block, meaning I wouldn't see the thread nor updates after the move!

ilya80 · 08-08-2010, 03:46 PM

Good to have the thread where it belongs.

Now lets see if Falconeye's predictions ( about Pentax keeping silence ) turn out to be true.

lurchlarson · 08-08-2010, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

And what could give more pro credibility for the brand than the 645D?
Canons most sold pro model isn't even FF....

The problem is...nobody knows about the 645d. Sure we do, we're probably the hardest-core Pentax fans. Some other photo geeks from other brands might know about it too.

The average consumer doesn't. I don't know about Europe or else where but in the United States and Canada the camera isn't even for sale or on the website.

I don't care how big the sensor size is. I think that a camera that Pentax can say in its introductory video "for professional quality results" or some other crap like that is what the brand needs. The professional moniker still counts for something.

**ismaelg** · 08-08-2010, 05:05 PM

Pentax needs a FF if nothing else as a marketing tool.
But before that, Pentax actually NEEDS a marketing department and retail presence.
As somebody else said, marketing can sell a bad product. But a good product can not sell itself without marketing.
Another thing: No matter how good a product is, it will not be considered by "pros" if it is not backed by a good service strategy. Local access, fast and reliable repairs, loaners, rentals etc.....
It is far more than just designing and building the thing.....

zackspeed · 08-08-2010, 05:11 PM

That was the problem with the Pentax LX.
The best camera of its type,with the lowest marketing.......

Urkeldaedalus · 08-08-2010, 05:12 PM

My main hope is that Pentax will be spurred on by the initial success of the 645D to the point that they will consider a professional support network. This would almost make me more optimistic that a full frame camera will eventually arrive than some Pentax PR person saying something like "We may consider FF at a later date." They can keep saying that forever and do nothing about it.

openyourap · 08-08-2010, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Blue

When you state that way that's true. If an EVIL body that has a different lens mount is released, it will be the same thing.

It's not the same thing. Adapting a lens to a smaller format and/or registration distance is done all the time with simple adaptors. Decreasing the registration distance is a little more challenging, as it requires major lens/camera surgery or negotiation with the laws of physics

dlacouture · 08-09-2010, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by ismaelg

But before that, Pentax actually NEEDS a marketing department and retail presence.

Funny, but here in France (don't know about Europe), Pentax has a pretty good representation...

Every brand has about the same "street" share (what you see around the necks)... A little bit more for canikon, little bit less for Sonympus, but you get the idea...

In my immediate entourage (family and coworkers), I even know more pentaxians than any other brand...

zackspeed · 08-09-2010, 02:34 AM

But France is not Europe,isn´t it?

In France,the Pentaxname was a very good name for years.
Good to read that is still like that.

thibs · 08-09-2010, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by lurchlarson

The problem is...nobody knows about the 645d. Sure we do, we're probably the hardest-core Pentax fans. Some other photo geeks from other brands might know about it too.

It worths not much but an colleague of mine who got into photo recently (1-2 years ago) shoots Canon (40D and 5D) and definitely got his keyboard wet when I saw the 645D (and every time he thinks about getting one).
And no, I didn't even tell him myself.

This is, however, a single example which may not be representative at all.

08-07-2010, 06:01 PM	#107
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by emr While I agree that they should either bring a FF camera or at least give a proper roadmap, I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's ass about an open letter from some camera forum. Especially as many here actively oppose a FF camera by Pentax. . . . not to mention those that are clamoring in the opposite direction for an EVIL body. Originally posted by emr With due respect, the 645D does not probably work all that well with the FF-capable K mount lenses most members have. It does work with existing 645 lenses, especially the FA ones. The film bodies were pretty much a pro system as is the 645d. Originally posted by eigelb moved to - Off-Topic Forums > General Talk ????? is someone hating FF cameras? Not as much as EVIL cams!!!!! Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2010 at 06:17 PM.

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08-07-2010, 02:49 PM	#106
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871 Original Poster	Originally posted by uccemebug I wonder if any of these bloggers has done any surveying to find out what the marketing realities are regarding enthusiast interests? We've had one long poll on lenses recently, and another (one question?) FF/EVIL query. But has anyone asked the broader 'Pentax enthusiast' crowd (hopefully a superset, not just this forum) about their interest level in actually buying a FF DSLR? For instance: 1. How much would you pay for a new FF DSLR body? 2. How much would you pay for a new FF DSLR system? To my knowledge there's not been a concerted effort to form an advocacy group for Pentax, has there? Or to do a any work to derive at some consensus on recommended products? Is there no interest in doing so? Has any past attempt failed? If so, was it due to apathy? For instance, if I put together a thread with a survey, would I even get ten responses? Actually, I'm going to try it. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/110002-how-much-wo...ml#post1133665 There. Good initiative! I participate and invite others to do as well. As always, one would like to know more before answering this kind of questions. But hey, if you know it all, you don't need no surveys, right? Good initiative and so I bumped this post a bit

08-07-2010, 07:28 PM	#108
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	can somebody move this thread where it belongs, to rumors or news sections, please

08-07-2010, 11:49 PM	#109
emr Guest	Originally posted by Blue It does work with existing 645 lenses, especially the FA ones. The film bodies were pretty much a pro system as is the 645d. Blue, the point was that if there isn't that much point in calling the 645D an upgrade option for Pentax APS-C DSLR users if no lens or accessory of theirs would work and they'd have to start from scratch.

08-08-2010, 08:19 AM	#110
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by emr Blue, the point was that if there isn't that much point in calling the 645D an upgrade option for Pentax APS-C DSLR users if no lens or accessory of theirs would work and they'd have to start from scratch. When you state that way that's true. If an EVIL body that has a different lens mount is released, it will be the same thing.

08-08-2010, 08:39 AM	#111
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by falconeye A "zero point" user infraction is a user infraction. Let's keep the facts straight. Btw, the user infraction page (I quoted in post #86) doesn't mention infraction points anyway. As a matter of fact, you made me upset. Not by the infraction (that's seems to be a Mods game I don't care about anyway). But about moving my thread to the section where creationists hang out. And I still am. That's all what counts as far as I and my motivation to provide content here, are concerned. P.S. Adam expects you to move the thread back ... And a section that I intentionally block, meaning I wouldn't see the thread nor updates after the move!

08-08-2010, 03:46 PM	#112
ilya80 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia Photos: Albums Posts: 410	Good to have the thread where it belongs. Now lets see if Falconeye's predictions ( about Pentax keeping silence ) turn out to be true.

08-08-2010, 04:22 PM	#113
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681	Originally posted by Pål Jensen And what could give more pro credibility for the brand than the 645D? Canons most sold pro model isn't even FF.... The problem is...nobody knows about the 645d. Sure we do, we're probably the hardest-core Pentax fans. Some other photo geeks from other brands might know about it too. The average consumer doesn't. I don't know about Europe or else where but in the United States and Canada the camera isn't even for sale or on the website. I don't care how big the sensor size is. I think that a camera that Pentax can say in its introductory video "for professional quality results" or some other crap like that is what the brand needs. The professional moniker still counts for something.

08-08-2010, 05:05 PM	#114
ismaelg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,681	Pentax needs a FF if nothing else as a marketing tool. But before that, Pentax actually NEEDS a marketing department and retail presence. As somebody else said, marketing can sell a bad product. But a good product can not sell itself without marketing. Another thing: No matter how good a product is, it will not be considered by "pros" if it is not backed by a good service strategy. Local access, fast and reliable repairs, loaners, rentals etc..... It is far more than just designing and building the thing.....

08-08-2010, 05:11 PM	#115
zackspeed Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 527	That was the problem with the Pentax LX. The best camera of its type,with the lowest marketing.......

08-08-2010, 05:12 PM	#116
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	My main hope is that Pentax will be spurred on by the initial success of the 645D to the point that they will consider a professional support network. This would almost make me more optimistic that a full frame camera will eventually arrive than some Pentax PR person saying something like "We may consider FF at a later date." They can keep saying that forever and do nothing about it.

08-08-2010, 05:37 PM	#117
openyourap Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 171	Originally posted by Blue When you state that way that's true. If an EVIL body that has a different lens mount is released, it will be the same thing. It's not the same thing. Adapting a lens to a smaller format and/or registration distance is done all the time with simple adaptors. Decreasing the registration distance is a little more challenging, as it requires major lens/camera surgery or negotiation with the laws of physics

08-09-2010, 01:10 AM	#118
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Originally posted by ismaelg But before that, Pentax actually NEEDS a marketing department and retail presence. Funny, but here in France (don't know about Europe), Pentax has a pretty good representation... Every brand has about the same "street" share (what you see around the necks)... A little bit more for canikon, little bit less for Sonympus, but you get the idea... In my immediate entourage (family and coworkers), I even know more pentaxians than any other brand...

08-09-2010, 02:34 AM	#119
zackspeed Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 527	But France is not Europe,isn´t it? In France,the Pentaxname was a very good name for years. Good to read that is still like that.

08-09-2010, 04:16 AM	#120
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by lurchlarson The problem is...nobody knows about the 645d. Sure we do, we're probably the hardest-core Pentax fans. Some other photo geeks from other brands might know about it too. It worths not much but an colleague of mine who got into photo recently (1-2 years ago) shoots Canon (40D and 5D) and definitely got his keyboard wet when I saw the 645D (and every time he thinks about getting one). And no, I didn't even tell him myself. This is, however, a single example which may not be representative at all.