[falconeye]

Anyone want to take up the design challenge and open a thread? I'd do that myself but I'm sure I'd put it in the wrong section and I've been chastised once already.

Well, the camera used by the reporter in the moon meeting room in the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey" is still the reference design how an EVIL camera would look like in .. well 2001, right? Still looks more convincing to me than current SLD designs.

[uccemebug]

I would love a 35mm digital manual reflex to go with the Cosina made manual lenses.
Make it KA mount (not crippled), decent focussing screen, and I think quite a lot of the older Pentaxians will buy one.

Yeah I'll second that. Aperture control on the lens, exposure override and ISO setting on a dial, PASM/shutter speed on the other dial. I realize that I'm hopelessly out of date, but I do hope that a "purist SLR" sub-genre develops some day. My *istDS may be as close as I get, I'm guessing.

But as far as Cosina is concerned. A Cosina DSLR would have to be closer to the build quality of their excellent lenses rather than their current film cameras, which don't inspire much confidence.

@Aristophanes

Thanks for the link. I guess you were referring to this?

“It’s not a question of whether or not you have a mirror. There is a consumer need for good-quality cameras to be made smaller,” Maeda said. “We will meet this need.”

I would certainly welcome a move to smaller DSLR's.

[tigrebleu]

Tell me what you think. Shall we make it an Open Letter to Pentax?

I read your article carefully and I think yes, this should be sent to Pentax.

The only thing that might prevent Hoya from investing into a FF system is the existence of two systems already (MF and APS-C)... Is another lens system too much in terms of developpement and manufacturing? I wonder...

But before they invest into any FF gear, please let me have my DA 12-24mm F/4 ED AL (IF) WR!

[cwood]

I currently work full time as a photographer. For the past 10 years I have been proud to bring my Pentax gear with me to every job I have ever worked. 2 years ago I added a small amount of Canon gear for sports assignments (1DmkIII and some lenses). A few months ago I finally broke down and bought the 5DmkII.

Last weekend I shot a Catholic wedding in a church and it marked the first time in my photography career that I did not bring ANY Pentax equipment with me to the job. I am not selling my Pentax gear anytime soon but I don't see myself buying anything in the near future unless the step up to the plate. 645D is not a substitute for FF since there is absolutely no chance that any of my current 6 Pentax lenses will work on that camera (16-50, 50-135, 200, 12-24, 43, 50).

I don't follow camera trends and marketing closely at all so perhaps Pentax does not care that people like me are drifting away from their brand. But from where I stand it is time for them to step up and make me some better gear so I can go back to a single brand of camera gear instead of this craziness with 2 parallel setups.

[gary1952]

What a mess Pentax has put themselfs in. It is a real shame. I personally think they are pretty much out of the running now. Especially with the K-7. An award winning body with a substandard sensor. Some one at Pentax should be shot. But I think the last post sums it up about Pentax future.
To bad.

[Christopher M.W.T]

What a mess Pentax has put themselfs in. It is a real shame. I personally think they are pretty much out of the running now. Especially with the K-7. An award winning body with a substandard sensor. Some one at Pentax should be shot. But I think the last post sums it up about Pentax future.
To bad.

sub standard sensor, not sure which camera your referring to....












And this baby was taken at 6400ISO


This was taken under VERY VERY VERY poor lighting @ 2000 ISO. Underexposed.


These at 1000 handheld under POOR lighting at 135mm f2.8.






If used correctly the K-7 achieves very good high ISO results.

[pinholecam]

There is a large market segment that buys DSLRs or DSLR like cameras (EVILs included) in the hope that it gives better image quality or just because it looks good (or both). This population does not participate in camera forums. No pro ambitions; No legacy lenses; No care for downgrade/upgrade/road maps. A few years down the road, they throw away the camera and buy a new one like a PnS.

This market is well able to generate a vast amount of revenue for camera makers and Pentax can well survive even if it only makes cameras for this market.
Of course WE being in the enthusiast camp like to see things differently.

While I'd certainly be happy if Pentax pulls out a FF now or in a few years time, I certainly don't mind holding on to APS-C. I'd certainly not want Pentax to go the way of the dodo trying to squeeze out a FF just for the sake of it (and being unprofitable).

[Christopher M.W.T]

There is a large market segment that buys DSLRs or DSLR like cameras (EVILs included) in the hope that it gives better image quality or just because it looks good (or both). This population does not participate in camera forums. No pro ambitions; No legacy lenses; No care for downgrade/upgrade/road maps. A few years down the road, they throw away the camera and buy a new one like a PnS.

This market is well able to generate a vast amount of revenue for camera makers and Pentax can well survive even if it only makes cameras for this market.
Of course WE being in the enthusiast camp like to see things differently.

While I'd certainly be happy if Pentax pulls out a FF now or in a few years time, I certainly don't mind holding on to APS-C. I'd certainly not want Pentax to go the way of the dodo trying to squeeze out a FF just for the sake of it (and being unprofitable).

I really wonder how many Pentax users that actively go on about wanting FF actually believe that a FF camera would instantly make them better photographers?

[thibs]

I really wonder how many Pentax users that actively go on about wanting FF actually believe that a FF camera would instantly make them better photographers?

Chhhhht not a good question, not good...

[falconeye]

There is a large market segment that buys DSLRs or DSLR like cameras (EVILs included) in the hope that it gives better image quality or just because it looks good (or both). This population does not participate in camera forums. No pro ambitions; No legacy lenses; No care for downgrade/upgrade/road maps. A few years down the road, they throw away the camera and buy a new one like a PnS.

True and I touched this argument in my article.
I differentiated the enthusiast segment from the volume segment (currently buying K-x) and even said that this segment may go SLD.

But you only can have a winner in the volume segment if the enthusiast segment is healthy. Because otherwise, nobody would recommend the brand.

[Aristophanes]

True and I touched this argument in my article.
I differentiated the enthusiast segment from the volume segment (currently buying K-x) and even said that this segment may go SLD.

But you only can have a winner in the volume segment if the enthusiast segment is healthy. Because otherwise, nobody would recommend the brand.

I had 4 cameras in the 70's, 4 in the 80's, 3 in the 90's, and 5 today. I may even pick up an MF film camera just for a back to the future moment.

Though myself as a single statistical proxy is likely foolish, the enthusiasts market has driven the industry for decades and with the drop in photojournalism and the rise in prosumers, this is an even more important segment for both gross revenues and margins.

Unless you are Leica with an aristocratic user base, the cost-shifting from volume to flagship is necessary, as is the "buy in, buy up" brand loyalty motive.

[Rupert]

I don't care if Pentax produces FF camera....and I don't care if they don't. The vast majority of Pentax shooters are not Pros, they are amateur enthusiasts or hobbyists and FF will be a very expensive change of course for them...so they will stick with what they have. If it wasn't expensive, many would have already gone to the D700.....and almost as many of those amateurs, like me, would be sorely disappointed at what they got for their major expense. I have shot with a D700, and while it is a fine camera, it is not fine for my shooting needs or skills. There is a reality in shooting FF that has been neglected by those that have made it the "holy grail" of cameras, when in fact, it just isn't.

You take a look over in the Exclusive Gallery Pentax User Photo Gallery - PentaxForums Exclusive Gallery and then come back right here and tell me which ones would be better with FF?

Now, I don't mind that some think FF will change their lives, and make them 100% better shooters, I love a good Fairy Tale about "shoots happily ever after", but the reality is quite different. I can afford any FF camera out there, but it would be a financial mistake for me, and the reason I can afford any camera I want is that I seldom make financial mistakes based on emotions. Maybe that is why Pentax is not into FF at this time of troubled world economies...they think with their minds, not the emotions of a few that scream FF!

Like most here, give me a K7 replacement with a little better high ISO, and the same great features of the K7 + a better SD door system and I will buy it.
Best Regards

I really wonder how many Pentax users that actively go on about wanting FF actually believe that a FF camera would instantly make them better photographers?

I really wonder how many Pentax users that actively want a DSLR would actually be in reality fine with a P&S or super-zoom camera?

[RBellavance]

Interesting thread on a related subject in the DPReview Sony DLSR forum: Why don't more A700 users upgrade to FF?

[Christopher M.W.T]

Well said.

I don't care if Pentax produces FF camera....and I don't care if they don't. The vast majority of Pentax shooters are not Pros, they are amateur enthusiasts or hobbyists and FF will be a very expensive change of course for them...so they will stick with what they have. If it wasn't expensive, many would have already gone to the D700.....and almost as many of those amateurs, like me, would be sorely disappointed at what they got for their major expense. I have shot with a D700, and while it is a fine camera, it is not fine for my shooting needs or skills. There is a reality in shooting FF that has been neglected by those that have made it the "holy grail" of cameras, when in fact, it just isn't.

You take a look over in the Exclusive Gallery Pentax User Photo Gallery - PentaxForums Exclusive Gallery and then come back right here and tell me which ones would be better with FF?

Now, I don't mind that some think FF will change their lives, and make them 100% better shooters, I love a good Fairy Tale about "shoots happily ever after", but the reality is quite different. I can afford any FF camera out there, but it would be a financial mistake for me, and the reason I can afford any camera I want is that I seldom make financial mistakes based on emotions. Maybe that is why Pentax is not into FF at this time of troubled world economies...they think with their minds, not the emotions of a few that scream FF!

Like most here, give me a K7 replacement with a little better high ISO, and the same great features of the K7 + a better SD door system and I will buy it.
Best Regards