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08-06-2010, 10:31 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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Photokina 2010, Pentax and the full frame mystery

Hi,

I've just published a blog post subtitled
"Why at this year's 2010 Photokina exhibition, Pentax may not get
away with ignoring the full frame conumdrum."
I argue that launching K-r and K-5 which both are APS-C cameras is not enough to keep Pentaxians happy campers. This implicitely discloses that Pentax is not currently planning to release anything related to full frame at Photokina 2010.

I argue that at Photokina 2010, they have to publish their full frame road map too or they will loose their enthusiast base which is expected to buy K-5, lenses and to further invest into the Pentax ecosystem. I argue that to stay silent on the topic is almost suicide. I further say that starting to release full frame lenses is a better move than to rush a full frame camera now. It's the roadmap which is required, not an immediate product. Faith in the future.

The full article with links to supporting material is here:

-> Falk Lumo: Photokina 2010, Pentax and the full frame mystery

Tell me what you think. Shall we make it an Open Letter to Pentax?


Last edited by falconeye; 08-06-2010 at 10:37 AM.
08-06-2010, 10:34 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Hi,


Tell me what you think. Shall we make it an Open Letter to Pentax?
absolutely yes !!!!
08-06-2010, 10:47 AM   #3
emr
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While I agree that they should either bring a FF camera or at least give a proper roadmap, I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's ass about an open letter from some camera forum. Especially as many here actively oppose a FF camera by Pentax.

Last edited by emr; 08-06-2010 at 11:06 AM.
08-06-2010, 11:05 AM   #4
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i guess that pentax will still stay silent to FF at Photokina,maybe they think the FF system have not profit enough to support manufacture for pentax.The sales of Sony A850/900 are not that good,but Sony have cash flow enough to support it,however,it's difficult for Hoya to do that.

08-06-2010, 11:15 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I argue that at Photokina 2010, they have to publish their full frame road map too or they will loose their enthusiast base which is expected to buy K-5, lenses and to further invest into the Pentax ecosystem.
Falconeye,

I cant express how glad I`m to read these lines. Pentax community has grown cold on their own, and people who dare to wish for fullframe K-mount camera are now joked, trolled and dismissed in any way thinkable.

Having a member of your caliber write this, I hope it will make some of us think different.

Thank you.
08-06-2010, 11:18 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I argue that launching K-r and K-5 which both are APS-C cameras is not enough to keep Pentaxians happy campers. This implicitely discloses that Pentax is not currently planning to release anything related to full frame at Photokina 2010.

I argue that at Photokina 2010, they have to publish their full frame road map too or they will loose their enthusiast base which is expected to buy K-5, lenses and to further invest into the Pentax ecosystem. I argue that to stay silent on the topic is almost suicide. I further say that starting to release full frame lenses is a better move than to rush a full frame camera now. It's the roadmap which is required, not an immediate product. Faith in the future.
I whole-heartedly disagree. Pentax does not have to put out a full frame camera. I think that it is much more important to re-establish a solid pro-support system as well as a camera that they market as a full-pro camera a la the Olympus e-3. The e-3 is marketed as a full pro camera, has a sensor smaller than APS-C and yet allows Olympus to stay relevant in the pro market.

What is killing Pentax is that they are marketing themselves as a photo-enthusiast brand and not a brand where a photo-enthusiast can grow into a pro.

All other major brands have a path to pro. Why not Pentax? It keeps them from being taken seriously.

Last edited by lurchlarson; 08-06-2010 at 11:26 AM.
08-06-2010, 11:18 AM   #7
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Excellent blog post! Well written and I share most (if not all) thoughts.

The "aps-c only" strategy was set by the old pentax management. I hope Hoya is aware of Moores law and was prepared that FF sensors would get cheaper. A FF road map would be great, but I fear that it will not be shown until they have a FF body to sell.
08-06-2010, 11:23 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
While I agree that they should either bring a FF camera or at least give a proper roadmap, I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's ass about an open letter from some camera forum. Especially as many here actively oppose a FF camera by Pentax.
Whoa! I don't think anybody actively opposes a FF Pentax. It's just that a lot of us don't think it's a "do or die" situation.

08-06-2010, 11:25 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Whoa! I don't think anybody actively opposes a FF Pentax. It's just that a lot of us don't think it's a "do or die" situation.
Amen...See my post above.
08-06-2010, 11:30 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
What is killing Pentax is that they are marketing themselves as a photo-enthusiast brand and not a brand where a photo-enthusiast can grow into a pro.
I hope that I did not say differently.

I really hope that the 645D will make Pentax (re)establish a pro network. And the K-7 hardware already is as much suitable for pros as is the E-3.

My point rather was that all of these positive developments may be in vain if Pentax' enthusiast base looses patience.
QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
a lot of us don't think it's a "do or die" situation.
True. I argue it's a "speak or die" situation... Like in secret service questioning

Last edited by falconeye; 08-06-2010 at 11:35 AM.
08-06-2010, 11:35 AM   #11
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Very good post. I fully agree that Pentax need to speak up; clearly, since the acquisition by Hoya, Pentax is much more tight lipped now.

However you did not mention the Tokina 16-28/2.8. As far as I am concerned, this lens is actually part of the puzzle; it is wheather sealed - a pentax specialty not present in any other Tokina lens - and it carries SDM technology.

In my opinion, this can be a clear sign that Pentax will release a full frame 135 mm dSLR, since the Tokina lens would not be wheather sealed nor equipped with SDM without the help of Pentax.
08-06-2010, 11:41 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Whoa! I don't think anybody actively opposes a FF Pentax.
Every time FF is discussed here, there a several and prominent members who in my eyes really oppose it.
08-06-2010, 11:44 AM   #13
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Nice read, i really do hope that this is a path taken into consideration by Pentax/Hoya...
08-06-2010, 11:48 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertbert Quote
However you did not mention the Tokina 16-28/2.8. As far as I am concerned, this lens is actually part of the puzzle;
True, it's one of many signs. But then I would have concluded that Pentax makes some kind of positive full frame statement during Photokina 2010. Which isn't their intention AFAIK.

I can read signs as long as I want. But only as long as Pentax doesn't twit me. And I stopped buying APS-C lenses and I guess many others did. That must damage Pentax' business. I wrote the article because I felt I'm not alone.
QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
Every time FF is discussed here, there a several and prominent members who in my eyes really oppose it.
I think there is opposition to abandon APSC or to claim that FF is superior. FF isn't superior by itself. It can be superior if combined with superior lenses (when they don't exist for APS-C).

So, there is a chance that my article addresses an issue which is orthogonal to the eternal APSC vs. FF war debate. Which is about faith into the Pentax ecosystem.

Last edited by falconeye; 08-06-2010 at 11:56 AM.
08-06-2010, 12:23 PM - 2 Likes   #15
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Why FF?

Why does one want FF?
In film era, 35mm seemed to be the best balance point - satisfying IQ, affordable, portable. This is not necessarily true in digital era. FF IQ may be better than APS-C, but by how much? What about other factors? I think people would agree that all of CNSPO find APS-C is currently the best balance point. From this perspective, I don't see why users really want FF.

What does one want FF for?
Does he want to pursue ultimate IQ? Does he have a lot of FF lenses that he wants to fully utilize? For the first purpose, he's got to spend money & get an MF DSLR. For the second purpose, he has to realize there exist DA lenses with eqiv. FOV & equal/better optical quality. On top of that, Pentax allows him to use all old lenses (better than CN). To many people, APS-C IQ is good enough.

Who really wants FF?
I think most FF-favor people have 35mm film camera background, probably with a long history. He either has accumulated some 35mm lens stock or has thought 35mm as golden standard. If you ask someone who started SLR hobby directly from APS-C, he may not have the same strong belief.

What's important - letting Pentax satisfy my desire or letting Pentax survive
I have some expensive film-era Pentax lenses that I too want to fully utilize their potential. FA31, FA77, Takumar 17mm, 645FA300mm are some examples. However, I realize their fortes on film may never be able to repeat in DSLR. I would rather to support Pentax (by buying APS-C DSLRs & DA lenses) to let them survive so that I can keep using my old lenses as well as new ones.

What's the big deal to stick to Pentax?
If one really wants FF, the best bet probably is to get CNS (just post his Pentax gears here in marketplace). But, IMHO, Pentax is more considerable to their users than other brands - that's one of the reasons why they stick to APS-C.

Last edited by hyyz; 08-06-2010 at 01:46 PM.
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