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08-26-2007, 09:17 PM   #76
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I think people are expecting a lot out of a company that has considerably less resources than Canon or Nikon. Sure, Hoya took over the company, but that doesn't mean that they suddenly can sprout lens and camera factories quickly.

Even if they can outsource their production to other factories, they'd probably have to check quality control and all that stuff wherever they're gonna outsource their production.

Yeah, like rdrum76 said, thank God for third-party manufacturers like Sigma. But then, it's because of companies like Sigma that Pentax could manage to hold off on producing their own long lens. Again, company scale issues.

Pentax is prioritizing production of lenses with focal lengths that most consumers would use, since, well, that's where bulk of the money is. It's not that they would want to alienate wildlife shooters, only that they currently lack the capability to service all levels of photographers FOR NOW.

As well, like Stu said, that $1800 body-only price tag, I'd rather use towards a vacation trip. Then again, I'm no pro shooter, and I do understand the needs of those who do make money out of taking pictures. So, by all means, buy what you feel you need.

Me? I'd give Pentax some time to grow into the new digital world. They certainly will, given the success of their products and the introduction of new Pentax shooters into the fold. I'd rather stay patient while they try to cope with higher production levels and such.

08-26-2007, 09:20 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by direct2miguel Quote
Now I'm lost too. I see A LOT of beautiful photo's out there and in this thread with 3rd party lenses. Is there a problem? Is it just Pentax that some of you need to have printed on the lens to give you more confidence about the photo you are taking? I am yet to meet a photographer, pro or other wise, Pentax, Nikon, Canon user that doesn't have at least one 3rd party lense in their arsenal.

I just don't get it. When you take beautiful photo's like that with a BIGMA, what more do you want?

I'm trying to be complimentary here to some wonderful photographers on this site... and I am hearing a lot of grumbling over the brand name on the lens. Am I missing something, or is that the only problem? If 3rd party lenses can compliment your kit and give you all the reach you want, wide and close, then what's the beef all about?
I agree with your point about third-party lenses. Third-party lens manufacturers do make able lenses that a lot of pro photographers have in their bags, irregardless of camera mount.

Sure, quality control for these companies are suspect, but I'd think all companies aren't perfect in this respect.
08-26-2007, 09:39 PM   #78
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I really can't believe this thread is still going. For crying out loud, if you want to jump ship, jump ship! If Pentax doesn't meet you're expectations, and you can afford a Nikon, by all means go for it! Who cares? Why all this dialogue?

Those of us who chose Pentax chose it for a reason, and we're unlikely to be swayed by the latest announcement of the latest & greatest features. If you want to get on that treadmill, well, good luck! Because it never stops and you'll never keep up. You'll spend the rest of your life researching new gear, posting "should I get this, or that" messages on forums, and buying and selling stuff. All of that time could be spent improving your creative process, technique and marketing skills (if you have professional aspirations).

I'm sure you've seen the study of the best photographs of the 20th century which revealed that the vast majority of them were taken with a normal (50mm) lens. Sure, zooms were poor quality then so it is perhaps not as relevant today, but the point is there are many photographic legends who didn't have 1/4 of the fancy equipment many amateurs have today... and they got along just fine. Why? Because they were busy taking pictures and becoming better photographers. And they did it all without a posting a single message on dpreviews! Amazing!

These days you can search Flickr or any other photo site and see incredible quality work being done with 5 year-old point & shoot cameras. I have. And when was the last time you saw a very dramatic image that moved you deeply and said to yourself "wow, I wonder if he shot that with a Nikon D2X or Canon Mark III?". (Note: if you are saying that to yourself, you're barking up the wrong tree)

Sorry for the smarmy tone... it's just getting so old.

I'm out.
08-26-2007, 11:49 PM   #79
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^switters, i see what you mean... with new dslr tech, the wheel will never stop turning. the companies are going to constantly be doing r&d, making bigger better faster more sophisticated cameras... i think with all the new dslr tech, the hobby of photography has attracted alot of tech savvy people, who maybe at one time just played around with taking pictures with point and shoot digi cams... and though research found out more about the hobby by means of the technical side of it, and for them its exciting when something new comes out. part of the way they see the hobby, a large part of it in fact is the new designs, the new features... the new technology itself... does that make them less of a photographer... absolutely not. just a different breed.... we take pictures with whatever camera we have for one reason, because we enjoy it... weather your shooting with a fully manual slr or the newest high end dslr, it makes no difference really... as long as your enjoying it... with all the new gadgets its alot to make your head spin, but thats part of the excitement... just because something new comes out does not mean you have to buy it... im a car enthusiast as well... i drive a nissan, but i still like to read about ferraris lol, im not sure where im going with this reply, but im sure it will make since to someone lol!


Last edited by pentaxbling; 08-27-2007 at 12:09 AM.
08-27-2007, 04:58 AM   #80
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QuoteQuote:
I just don't get it. When you take beautiful photo's like that with a BIGMA, what more do you want?

I'm trying to be complimentary here to some wonderful photographers on this site... and I am hearing a lot of grumbling over the brand name on the lens. Am I missing something, or is that the only problem? If 3rd party lenses can compliment your kit and give you all the reach you want, wide and close, then what's the beef all about?

Hope you don't see my post as complaining....albeit I simply wish that a lens with a faster aperture than f/6.3 was available at a reasonable cost, which it is not. I like to shoot in flight birds and the Bigma is a bit slow with the K10D. Otherwise, I am quite happy with both....Sigma makes fine glass...just hard to come by right now.
08-27-2007, 07:44 AM   #81
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Sorry, Stu...

but the top wildlife photographers routinely use 500mm and 600mm lenses (plus TC's!) to get many of their shots. With their set-ups you would be able to make out the individual eyelashes on the deer in your photo, instead of cropping to such a degree that the subject detail becomes indistinct.
08-27-2007, 08:21 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxbling Quote
^switters, i see what you mean... with new dslr tech, the wheel will never stop turning. the companies are going to constantly be doing r&d, making bigger better faster more sophisticated cameras... i think with all the new dslr tech, the hobby of photography has attracted alot of tech savvy people, who maybe at one time just played around with taking pictures with point and shoot digi cams... and though research found out more about the hobby by means of the technical side of it, and for them its exciting when something new comes out. part of the way they see the hobby, a large part of it in fact is the new designs, the new features... the new technology itself... does that make them less of a photographer... absolutely not. just a different breed.... we take pictures with whatever camera we have for one reason, because we enjoy it... weather your shooting with a fully manual slr or the newest high end dslr, it makes no difference really... as long as your enjoying it... with all the new gadgets its alot to make your head spin, but thats part of the excitement... just because something new comes out does not mean you have to buy it... im a car enthusiast as well... i drive a nissan, but i still like to read about ferraris lol, im not sure where im going with this reply, but im sure it will make since to someone lol!
Good point, Ryan. Of course it depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to take good pictures or make art, buying the "latest & greatest" probably won't help much with that. If your goal is to follow the new technologies and enjoy their implementation in camera equipment (and I'm not knocking this or saying it's less worthy than the first goal), then certainly buying the latest breakthrough offering in the DSLR market will satisfy you.

I guess that's why it's so helpful to be clear about your goals. And what I was saying is simply that if you want to be a better photographer or artist, the newest camera isn't going to do it.

To extend your metaphor, a Ferrari in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to drive is just a $100k piece of metal. A beautiful one, for sure, but that's all.
08-27-2007, 08:21 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by direct2miguel Quote
Now I'm lost too. I see A LOT of beautiful photo's out there and in this thread with 3rd party lenses. Is there a problem? Is it just Pentax that some of you need to have printed on the lens to give you more confidence about the photo you are taking? I am yet to meet a photographer, pro or other wise, Pentax, Nikon, Canon user that doesn't have at least one 3rd party lens in their arsenal.

I just don't get it. When you take beautiful photo's like that with a BIGMA, what more do you want?

I'm trying to be complimentary here to some wonderful photographers on this site... and I am hearing a lot of grumbling over the brand name on the lens. Am I missing something, or is that the only problem? If 3rd party lenses can compliment your kit and give you all the reach you want, wide and close, then what's the beef all about?
Agreed. I have a Tamron 28-75 f2.8 (love it!) a Tokina and a couple of Sigmas. All are very good lenses. I like my Bigma and use it more than I thought I might. Of course I'd love it to be faster and I'm sure a faster long lens will be available from either Pentax or another supplier sometime soon (200 f2.8, 300mm f4) . Pentax sales are making it more attractive for 3rd party companies to consider adding the k mount to the line up. Short lenses are not nearly as much of an issue as we have the new DA*'s, Limited's, 31mm, 14mm, Macro's and so on.

QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
I really can't believe this thread is still going. For crying out loud, if you want to jump ship, jump ship! If Pentax doesn't meet you're expectations, and you can afford a Nikon, by all means go for it! Who cares? Why all this dialogue?

Those of us who chose Pentax chose it for a reason, and we're unlikely to be swayed by the latest announcement of the latest & greatest features. If you want to get on that treadmill, well, good luck! Because it never stops and you'll never keep up. You'll spend the rest of your life researching new gear, posting "should I get this, or that" messages on forums, and buying and selling stuff. All of that time could be spent improving your creative process, technique and marketing skills (if you have professional aspirations).

I'm sure you've seen the study of the best photographs of the 20th century which revealed that the vast majority of them were taken with a normal (50mm) lens. Sure, zooms were poor quality then so it is perhaps not as relevant today, but the point is there are many photographic legends who didn't have 1/4 of the fancy equipment many amateurs have today... and they got along just fine. Why? Because they were busy taking pictures and becoming better photographers. And they did it all without a posting a single message on dpreviews! Amazing!

These days you can search Flickr or any other photo site and see incredible quality work being done with 5 year-old point & shoot cameras. I have. And when was the last time you saw a very dramatic image that moved you deeply and said to yourself "wow, I wonder if he shot that with a Nikon D2X or Canon Mark III?". (Note: if you are saying that to yourself, you're barking up the wrong tree)

Sorry for the smarmy tone... it's just getting so old.

I'm out.

I'm with you totally. This is getting very tired and it's not the only thread like this. The longer glass will come over time I'm sure from both Pentax and the others. SDM will make that easier I suspect. Pentax in many ways is getting back in the game and it will take some catching up with glass. As for the techno types this is beginning to sound more like a computer forum where the newest chip that is 1% faster makes the nerds sell their 87th CPU for the newest great computer, till next week when that's outdated.

I have to laugh when someone posts that they want a 500/600mm fast lens. The Canon EF 600mm f/4.0L IS USM (their longest and fastest) is $11,999.00 MSRP. The Nikon AF-S NIK ED 600/4 D II Is $9,999.00 MSRP. Come on how many of you are prepared to take out a second mortgage to get a shot of an eagle? The Bigma at 500mm/ f6.3 is fine for me at $1000.00

Looking at some of the great shots posted here and elsewhere with a Pentax camera proves to me that we have the tools for most situations and most of us (me especially) need to shoot, practice and learn how to use those tools better.

Please enough already.

08-27-2007, 08:51 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I have to laugh when someone posts that they want a 500/600mm fast lens. The Canon EF 600mm f/4.0L IS USM (their longest and fastest) is $11,999.00 MSRP. The Nikon AF-S NIK ED 600/4 D II Is $9,999.00 MSRP. Come on how many of you are prepared to take out a second mortgage to get a shot of an eagle?

This is an extremely good point. If having that fast, long glass is crucial to your needs, then perhaps Pentax isn't the right system for you. Pentax has never, ever tried to be all things to all people. What they are is the best bang for your buck...period. Up until the digital age, the K1000 was capable of taking photos every bit the equal of the most expensive Nikon or Canon....if you could live without the automation. The Pentax 6X7 could deliver images second to none...if interchangeable backs wasn't important to your work. Pentax has ALWAYS made compromises in their products, leaning towards offering the most imaging power per dollar spent. If you can live and work within the Pentax constraints, you will generally be rewarded with image quality and money left over in your pocket.
08-27-2007, 09:10 AM   #85
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Pentax was not just the K1000.

Pentax had the LX which was equal, if not better, to the Canon F1 and the Nikon F3; had advanced autofocus cameras like the Pentax Z1p or the MZS; twenty years ago had superlenses like 300/2,8, 400/2,8 600/5,6 anbd 1200/8 all IF ED lenses; even now it has (built on order) the FA 300/2,8 and the FA 600/4.
08-27-2007, 09:35 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
Pentax was not just the K1000.

Pentax had the LX which was equal, if not better, to the Canon F1 and the Nikon F3;
I agree with you. I think the LX is the best manual focus SLR ever made. That's why I've used one for the last 20+ yrs. But a K1000 could produce pictures that were just as good as an LX for a fraction of the cost. Pentax is certainly capable of creating cutting edge products. I was merely pointing out that this wasn't where their reputation came from.
08-27-2007, 11:05 AM   #87
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One more thing that I've learned in my experience... it may be a little OT, but I don't think so. Sometimes too many choices can be overwhelming and counterproductive. One of the best things I've ever done for myself in terms of improving my photography was spend several months shooting only with a 50mm lens.

At first it felt like a limitation, but very shortly that shifted into a sense of liberation. Without the additional choices of what lens to bring/mount or what focal length to choose, I was free to focus on the creative aspects of composition, light and storytelling. Using a single focal length helped me to see the world through a particular point of view, as well as impose my point of view on the world. Much has been written about this, and one post in particular on The Online Photographer comes to mind.

Now I have only two lenses in my kit (DA 21 & FA 77). The 21 I use for urban/street/travel/landscape (and the occasional offbeat portrait), and the 77 I use for portraits (along with the occasional landscape/street/detail shot). I've found that the simplicity of this approach lends itself very well to my style of photography.

I'm not suggesting this is right for everyone. Obviously people with particular needs/interests (wildlife, fast action sports, macro, etc.) will need specific lenses for those purposes. But I'm just introducing the possibility that having a whole bunch of lenses won't necessarily make someone a better photographer, and could even inhibit their learning and growth. It did for me, and I ended up selling all of them except 2.
08-27-2007, 12:32 PM   #88
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P.S. As an addendum to my previous post, here's some interesting reading:

Pentax K10D blog: The Seven Steps to Photographic Enlightenment
08-27-2007, 12:43 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
<snip>One more thing that I've learned in my experience... it may be a little OT, but I don't think so. Sometimes too many choices can be overwhelming and counterproductive.<snip>
this is very true, my first camera was a nikon fm10, the low end of there slr line, fully manual... i learned everything from trial and error... when i got this camera for christmas in my early teens i was overjoyed that i had a camera that would let me make adjustments and be creative, i only had access to 35mm point and shoot cameras up to that point.... thats the only camera i had untill i bought a pentax ME off ebay, i thought it was pretty cool how it would set the shutter speed for you! my 3rd camera was the k10d after LOTS of research on DSLRS... this was my first camera with an AF lens lol... no matter what camera im using, its the picture i end up with that i care most about... its very easy to get caught up in the tech geek side of this hobby now lol... i think we all need to step back and ask.. why did i start taking pictures in the first place? ... im not sure where i stand in all of this... i do love the new technology, and at the same time i miss doing test strips in the dark room lol... eather way, its all photography. and i love photograpy
08-27-2007, 02:36 PM   #90
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pentaxbling and switters. That was my point as well and I couldn't have said it better myself. I'll cast a vote for the LX as well as the best camera ever anywhere. 10 years plus of abuse and 1000's of images and the camera never once complained.

I admit it was exciting getting the new DSLR last year and starting to sell and swap some gear for new lenses. I liked the package coming to the door (where I live you couldn't find a Pentax part/lens/body to save your life). But the real thrill is a day of shooting and I can't wait to pop the SD card in the computer and see what was captured. The LBA thing is fun for a bit but the picture is what carries you forward for months/years/decades.

Go shoot, learn, create and have some fun!
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