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08-14-2010, 05:55 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
It pmight takes until Canon and Nikon enter the market before a big wave of EVIL will drown the DSLR market.
But there are a good reasons why they wait with releasing EVIL. They feel safer with the market they have in DSLR, and the EVIL market they might not have the same control over and probably not be as big players. They have much to loose entering EVIL market, but not so much to win right now, so they will wait as long as possible.

There are reasons to believe that Canons answer to EVIL is a very compact DSLR.
Why Nikon and Canon wait is the wrong question. The question is why Panasonic and Sony makes EVIL's. The answer is that it is the only way for them to sell interchangeable lens cameras. They are targeted at a different public; the ones who want to buy a new electronic gadgets. The electronic giants are good at this stuff, and their whole distribution and marketing network are geared towards this, but not as good selling gear to serious photographers. Thats why Nikon and Canon have the marketshare they enjoy. EVIL's create more concern among Nikon and Canon P&S divisions...

08-14-2010, 07:32 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There are reasons to believe that Canons answer to EVIL is a very compact DSLR.
Why Nikon and Canon wait is the wrong question. The question is why Panasonic and Sony makes EVIL's. The answer is that it is the only way for them to sell interchangeable lens cameras. They are targeted at a different public; the ones who want to buy a new electronic gadgets. The electronic giants are good at this stuff, and their whole distribution and marketing network are geared towards this, but not as good selling gear to serious photographers. Thats why Nikon and Canon have the marketshare they enjoy. EVIL's create more concern among Nikon and Canon P&S divisions...
The Panasonic trend for the Lumix G series is to build them larger.

Lumix G10 124 x 83.6 x 74mm (excluding protrusions) & 538 g with 14-42 lens and battery

Pentax K-x 122.5 x 91.5 x 67.5 & 791 grams with 18-55 DA L lens & battery

They had to market this 4/3 body as the lightest interchangeable lens camera with a viewfinder on the market.
08-14-2010, 08:11 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There are reasons to believe that Canons answer to EVIL is a very compact DSLR. ....
EVIL's create more concern among Nikon and Canon P&S divisions...
You are the only person with that opinion.
Masaya Maeda of Canon clearly stated that their new "small" camera is to compete with the new breed of mirrorless cameras!

I believe they would have a compact DSLR in Photokina. The main reason is that their own mirrorless system is not ready yet, probably not until next year. And they see enough threat from other mirrorless and Nikon that they need some marketing "gimmicks" to combat that - that's how much concern they have about their DSLR division!
08-14-2010, 08:23 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There are reasons to believe that Canons answer to EVIL is a very compact DSLR.
Why Nikon and Canon wait is the wrong question. The question is why Panasonic and Sony makes EVIL's. The answer is that it is the only way for them to sell interchangeable lens cameras. They are targeted at a different public; the ones who want to buy a new electronic gadgets. The electronic giants are good at this stuff, and their whole distribution and marketing network are geared towards this, but not as good selling gear to serious photographers. Thats why Nikon and Canon have the marketshare they enjoy. EVIL's create more concern among Nikon and Canon P&S divisions...
Many of the entry level DSLR have been sold to same type of users that EVIL is now marked for. Not knowing what shutter speed, aperture and ISO do seems to be quite common of theses users and they use the camera in full auto mode. Usually they also want a camera with live-view as they think it is weird using a OVF, but they are forced to use OVF as LV are not very usfull on most DSLR. Many of the entry level DSLR is only sold with a kit lens and that lens is never removed from the camera.

In my experience most serious photographers get more advanced DSLR, but advanced DSLR are not sold as many as entry level cameras. If all that ever bought a DSLR was a serious photographer, more advanced DSLR and lenses would be sold.

Sure, most buying EVIL camera will be P&S users, but that is also true for most buying a DSLR. And I don't think users buying their first DSLR buy it becuase it is a DSLR , but because it has some features that they want, and they might as well get those features in a EVIL camera.

08-14-2010, 08:56 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
You are the only person with that opinion.
Masaya Maeda of Canon clearly stated that their new "small" camera is to compete with the new breed of mirrorless cameras!
Sure it is but they don't claim it is without a mirror...
08-14-2010, 09:50 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
You are the only person with that opinion.
Masaya Maeda of Canon clearly stated that their new "small" camera is to compete with the new breed of mirrorless cameras!

I believe they would have a compact DSLR in Photokina. The main reason is that their own mirrorless system is not ready yet, probably not until next year. And they see enough threat from other mirrorless and Nikon that they need some marketing "gimmicks" to combat that - that's how much concern they have about their DSLR division!
However, you are one of several people who can't read the articles about the interview. Maeda never said they were going mirrorless but actually strongly implied the opposite. Here is what he said:

QuoteQuote:
Maeda also said the company was working on a smaller version of its upmarket single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras in a bid to compete with the new breed of mid-range so-called "mirrorless" cameras launched by Sony Corp (6758.T), Olympus Corp (7733.T), and Panasonic Corp (6752.T).
QuoteQuote:
Maeda did not give further details of the new camera, including whether the internal structure would include a mirror.
"It's not a question of whether or not you have a mirror. There is a consumer need for good-quality cameras to be made smaller," Maeda said. "We will meet this need."
He denied this would be difficult without removing the internal mirror, adding that Canon had produced very small SLR cameras in the past.
UPDATE 1-Canon says may raise camera sales forecast | Reuters
08-14-2010, 10:13 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Sure it is but they don't claim it is without a mirror...
Yes, they are using a DSLR to compete with mirrorless; not a P&S!
08-14-2010, 10:18 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
However, you are one of several people who can't read the articles about the interview. Maeda never said they were going mirrorless but actually strongly implied the opposite.]
Am I? Or is it you who can't read my post?
I clearly said that Canon is probably going to have a compact DSLR for photokina (not mirrorless). And I am speculating that they have to do this to combat the mirrorless because their own mirrorless system is not ready yet; that's why they need this "small camera" marketing gimmicks. A compact DSLR can be done in a much shorter development time than a brand new mirrorless system.

I can almost guarantee you that Canon will have a mirrorless system in the future. It looks like they could be the last one to join the party. But with their brand power, they can afford to do that.

08-14-2010, 11:13 AM   #84
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You've predicted Canon's future in 5 short weeks

You've predicted Canon's future in 5 short weeks.
I'm happy there's NO mirrorless due from Canon.
This smaller 60D, articulated viewscreen full HD spec dslr will work with all my Canon lenses.
$999 launch price will make me buy it before predictable price drops.

I've waited for an articulated viewscreen dslr, this one I'll buy.


Rumor: New Canon HDSLRs spotted in the wild? | planet5D-Canon HDSLR news



Whereas Nikon looks to be going mirrorless:

EOSHD.com - Nikon mirrorless camera to have global shutter




QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
...
I clearly said that Canon is probably going to have a compact DSLR for photokina (not mirrorless). And I am speculating that they have to do this to combat the mirrorless because their own mirrorless system is not ready yet; that's why they need this "small camera" marketing gimmicks. A compact DSLR can be done in a much shorter development time than a brand new mirrorless system.

I can almost guarantee you that Canon will have a mirrorless system in the future. It looks like they could be the last one to join the party. But with their brand power, they can afford to do that.

Last edited by Samsungian; 08-14-2010 at 12:31 PM.
08-14-2010, 11:18 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Am I? Or is it you who can't read my post?
It seems that way since you take Maeda's interview and draw a conclusion that Canon is planing a EVIL system to compete with Panny and Oly but it isn't ready yet. He never said that.

QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I clearly said that Canon is probably going to have a compact DSLR for photokina (not mirrorless). And I am speculating that they have to do this to combat the mirrorless because their own mirrorless system is not ready yet; that's why they need this "small camera" marketing gimmicks. A compact DSLR can be done in a much shorter development time than a brand new mirrorless system.
We have been saying they will have a compact dSLR based on Maeda's interview. You are making assumptions about whether they have a mirrorless system that isn't ready. You aren't getting that from Maeda either. Its speculation.

QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I can almost guarantee you that Canon will have a mirrorless system in the future. It looks like they could be the last one to join the party. But with their brand power, they can afford to do that.
You may guarantee it, but not based on Maeda's interview. That was my point. Furthermore, EVIL wouldn't be such a big leap for Canon if they wanted to. They could add an interchangeable lens mount to the G11 and about 5 lenses as a start along with some other progressive improvements in sensor size.
08-14-2010, 11:19 AM   #86
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Are they really going to release the Canon 60D at $999? That seems awfully low.
08-14-2010, 11:22 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
Are they really going to release the Canon 60D at $999? That seems awfully low.
The the picture of it in the guys hands make it appear a bit large to be a compact dSLR. That's assuming that is actually it in the photos.
08-14-2010, 11:47 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It seems that way since you take Maeda's interview and draw a conclusion that Canon is planing a EVIL system to compete with Panny and Oly but it isn't ready yet. He never said that.....Its speculation.
I never said he did! [sigh]
Anyways, you are going in a totally different directions!

My point was to tell Pål Jensen that Maeda is planning to use a compact DSLR to combat mirrorless; this contradicts Pål's opinion that mirrorless only cause concern for P&S cameras, and not DSLR. And I am showing him that Canon is concerned about the effect of mirrorless on DSLR - that's why they are using a DSLR to combat it.

And yes, I went on to speculate (and I use this same word) why they are using this strategy. Why do you have to keep putting word into my mouth and keep claiming things that I did not say? Geez.
08-14-2010, 12:11 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I never said he did! [sigh]
Anyways, you are going in a totally different directions!

My point was to tell Pål Jensen that Maeda is planning to use a compact DSLR to combat mirrorless; this contradicts Pål's opinion that mirrorless only cause concern for P&S cameras, and not DSLR. And I am showing him that Canon is concerned about the effect of mirrorless on DSLR - that's why they are using a DSLR to combat it.

And yes, I went on to speculate (and I use this same word) why they are using this strategy. Why do you have to keep putting word into my mouth and keep claiming things that I did not say? Geez.
If you go back an re-read Pål's post, he said that the compact dSLR would be released to compete against the dSLR. However, why wouldn't the EVIL offerings from Panasonic et al. not be a concern for the G11 division?

I wasn't putting words into your mouth. Just trying to differentiate Maeda's statement and your opinions.

However, I saw this as a rather snide comment:

QuoteQuote:
You are the only person with that opinion.
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
08-14-2010, 12:54 PM   #90
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I've seen quotes on 60D being

I've seen quotes on 60D being $100, or $200 or $300 more than T2i, Canon's $799 dslr. So take your pick. If this is Canon's answer to Panasonic's smaller camera with articulated screen and full HD then the price point is important. Anyways, Canon could offer 60D for break even to then sell more already existing eos lenses.

Maybe Pentax has articulated viewscreen screen dslrs due at Photokina ?

I'll only ever own optical viewfinder dslr cameras, so the 60D image leaks and specs seem a perfect fit for me as I still would like to add a hd dslr to my kit from someone. I had a GH1 for a bit and didn't like it. Way too small, bad ergos for my big hands, evil viewfinder bugs my eyes, so "Evil" is off my radar and I'm getting to point where I'd rather have great autofocus over adapting manual focus lenses to cameras.

I wonder if Pentax will leak anything credible before Photokina.
Like a A mystery camera on Ned's patio or ?





QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
Are they really going to release the Canon 60D at $999? That seems awfully low.
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