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08-13-2010, 01:22 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
You say that FF is better, but I want to know how. How do you mean the photos would be tremendously better by being shot FF?
Hope you dont mind me answering this one.

Things I`m looking for in FF land:

1) My lens to become what they are intended to be. FA31 to become moderate wide-angle. A 50 1.2 to become normal fast fifty. FA77 to become real short tele. K135 to become real protrait tele. Hell even Tokina 28-70 2.6~2.8 to become my walkaround zoom. I so should have gotten FA43 before recession kicked in.

2) Good ISO 3200, usable ISO 6400.

3) More DoF control.

08-13-2010, 01:25 PM - 2 Likes   #47
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It's not the camera, but the person behind it that makes photographs.

If you can't produce quality work from a Pentax, it ain't gonna matter what brand you switch to. Every system has its limitations; every format has its drawbacks.

Learning to work within the limitations of a system to produce quality work is one of the things that separates a good photographer from a great one.
08-13-2010, 01:31 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pixel Pusher Quote
It's not the camera, but the person behind it that makes photographs...
God knows I`m tired of reading posts like this.

Posts that make fun of people suggesting they think they can become better photographers getting FF cameras.

Posts telling people to get a life ( YEAH RIGHT ).

If you think you helped some of us by stating the obvious, you are wrong. The best advice is the one which has been asked for.

No offence.
08-13-2010, 01:53 PM   #49
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Crop mode

QuoteOriginally posted by philippe Quote
This is the smartest remark so far in this thread!!!!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
Because a FF will make them better Photographers remember?


<snip>

If Pentax were to make a FF, they need to make sure they include a "crop-mode" in order to keep their current crop lenses relevant for those that shelled out a lot of dough for them.
If you mean an arrangement that allows us to use a sub-set of the FF sensor, then we end up with about 40-45% (or something like that) of the FF sensor's sensels.

So our APS-C glass would require something like 25-35 MP on the entire FF to get to the useable MP we enjoy now.

We really have to crop out more than half the FF's image.

That could be fine if the individual sensels were each at least as "good" as those found on our APS-C. But I fear that we'd have to take a step backward in sensor resolution, noise, etc. when we crop that much on the FF.

A "native" 14-16 MP APS-C may well a better (in some fashion) image than a 12-16 MP subset of a 25-35 MP FF.

If I missed something here, I'm quite pleased. I have a lot of DA-sized glass ....

08-13-2010, 02:17 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
God knows I`m tired of reading posts like this.
Then SHUT THE **** UP and don't read it.

But, like you say, NO Offense.
08-13-2010, 02:52 PM   #51
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I`ll take the part of that advice about not reading it

You get the honor of being the first on my ignore list.
08-13-2010, 03:21 PM   #52
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What if....

Pentax gives a camera for all the Pentaxians dreamed of (Consolidated requests to minimize manufacture expense).

A FF frame Mirrorless EVF 16MP Sony Exmor sensor with Black 77mm LTD.
08-13-2010, 03:28 PM   #53
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dream No any FF this year from Pentax believe me. They can show only prototype - I know that there is one We will see only APS-C cameras.

08-13-2010, 03:49 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
God knows I`m tired of reading posts like this.

Posts that make fun of people suggesting they think they can become better photographers getting FF cameras.

Posts telling people to get a life ( YEAH RIGHT ).

If you think you helped some of us by stating the obvious, you are wrong. The best advice is the one which has been asked for.

No offence.
Tell ya what. If that's the case, do me a favor: Show me a picture you shot that justifies your need for a full-frame camera.
08-13-2010, 05:28 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by noahpurdy Quote
Tell ya what. If that's the case, do me a favor: Show me a picture you shot that justifies your need for a full-frame camera.
I don't know if ilya80 can do it. Do you keep your missed shot? Many people don't. But I do, so I will answer first to that request.
So I need FF for several reasons, one of them is to get higher cleaner iso performances.
Last spring, for cherry blossom, there were a very cute girl playing in front of me with her daddy's camera. She was almost not moving, i was sit on ground so very stable. I took 10 pictures of her, only 2 or 3 were "acceptable", and only 1 with a nice composition (excepted on the left side of the picture, but we can just cut it).
First, one of the missed shot:
30mm f/1.4, 1/5sec 800 isos (my mistake, I should have increase it to 1600 isos, I was probably trying to reduce noise):


But still, I would not have been able to get a "clean" image even at 1/10 sec.

Now, the only "good" shot
30mm f/1.4, 1/10 sec 1600 isos:


There is the problem of ghost people on the left (parks are very crowded in Japan for cherry blossom) but at least the girl is quite sharp and there is no major disturbance in the composition. Then, if you check carefully, you will see that this image is already very noisy, even at "only" 1600 isos, and I was not able to go higher.

That kind of missed photo, I got many. Especially with subjects that are not that much static or smaller (trees' leaf in night landscape). I guess I am not the only one to need cleaner higher isos, with still nice color rendition and DR. Maybe I am trying to get very difficult shots, but, hey, is it not a part of the fun to challenge ourself getting "impossible" ones?
08-13-2010, 05:30 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by noahpurdy Quote
Tell ya what. If that's the case, do me a favor: Show me a picture you shot that justifies your need for a full-frame camera.
He doesn't have any. This is Ilya's M.O. A simple Google search will show he's posted inciteful comments on forums across the Internet, from Luminous Landscape to DPreview. Always the same, bait the line (this time I bit), set he hook, then set to "ignore".

He's got only 1 image each in about a dozen forum galleries.

Maybe it's like his signature says - he's "trying hard to find more time shooting with his gear".

I think he needs to try harder.
08-13-2010, 05:32 PM - 3 Likes   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
3) More DoF control.
This get repeated over and over. You do not get more control over DOF with FF. You just get shallower DOF at the same angle of view and aperture. Generally in photography, control over DOF is those systems that can get the most into focus; thats why large format was DOF king with film. All current SLR systems can provide shallow DOF.
The image below is an example of control over DOF. It may not be great but it illustrate that everything in the image from the front of the lens to infinity is in focus. This image is impossible to shoot on FF without a tilt shift lens. This is the realm of large format photography in the film days, but this one is shot with a K-7.
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08-13-2010, 05:38 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by youky63 Quote
Now, the only "good" shot
30mm f/1.4, 1/10 sec 1600 isos:
First, that's a great shot! The people to the left don't bother me as you've successfully captured the girl interacting with the camera. That's what the photo is about, isn't it? The blurred folks are unnecessary to tell the story.

Second, if it was your intent to freeze the motion across the frame, then I'm not sure FF alone would solve your problem. For starters, your shutter speed was way too slow. You'd need at minimum 1/60-1/125. And then there's light. You need more light, period.

Still, considering the circumstances, you did a great job capturing a candid moment!
08-13-2010, 07:31 PM   #59
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I have to agree... both that it's a great photo and FF might not have made the difference here. I suspect a K-x might have solved the problem - at least in this particular instance. The K-x would have allowed you to use ISO 3200 with less noise.
08-13-2010, 08:45 PM   #60
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Thanks for your compliments, I really appreciate a lot!
I also like this shot, and actually even like the "ghost people", it give a bit more "out of time" sensation. But I know many people don't like them.
Then, I don't understand why a FF body would not have been able to help me? Kx is much better than K20 or K7 for high isos, but 5DMkII and D700 are even much better than Kx. Coupled to a 50mm f/1.4, it must give almost equivalent field of view but a cleaner image, even a higher isos setting (night high isos is much more difficult than daytime high isos, differences between APS-C and FF are bigger)
Also, I agree with you Pixel Pusher, I am trying to take photos when we are not supposed to do considered light conditions. But in Japan night in coming very early (5PM in winter, 7:30PM in summer!) and many festival occurs during night. The problem is that public lights are very few and not powerful, giving this very special atmosphere that I love so much during festival and that I want to reproduce in my photos.

Some example of what I mean:

-Gion matsuri 2010:
30mm f/1.4, 1/40sec 1600 isos


-Gion matsuri 2009:
30mm f/1.4, 1/40 sec 400isos +1EV (yes weird setting, but I was discovering my new sigma 30mm and was trying to understand out it works )


-Takarazuka fireworks 2009:
85mm f/1.4 (manual focus!), 1/40 sec 1600 isos + 0.7EV (classic compensation of my tamron 17-50mm, I guess I forget to change here)



But when people where moving (or even worse: walking!) it was almost impossible to get sharp pictures. Still, I get a few...

-Gion matsuri 2009:
30mm f/1.4, 1/40sec 400 isos +1.7EV (that day I discovered the link speed-isos-exposure compensation )


But this year, I was disappointed by my AF. It was really not accurate and I had really big difficulties to get good sharp shots, even in conditions that was working last year. Probably need to do maintenance.
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