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08-18-2010, 12:00 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
No way. A simple sensor change won't ever sell a camera. 5Dii added lot more than simple sensor change.
I am not sure if I agree with you, if they would replace the K-7 sensor, it would have a distinct advantage over the K-r (build quality, top LCD, double wheel, pentaprism) and customers will not hesitate to pay the extra amount of money if they value these specifications.

Whereas if the K-7 remains its current sensor it feels like it is not an entire upgrade from the K-r (if the K-r has a superior sensor, which I expect): you will gain quality in some areas and loose quality in other areas. The Sony DSLR's with the 14 MP sensor are rumored to have a higher FPS than the current K-7...

Anyhow the rumors regarding the specifications of the new Sony DSLR's with the 16MP sensor are pretty impressive (10 FPS, iso 100 - 25.600, same IQ at iso 3200 as the alpha 900 at iso 400) and for me that would mean that a serious gap would emerge between the K-7 and the K-5

08-18-2010, 01:13 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote

(10 FPS, iso 100 - 25.600, same IQ at iso 3200 as the alpha 900 at iso 400)
Do you really think that 16 MP APS-C (with small pixels) picture could be better in terms of resolution, good-balanced contrast and colour, more good-detailed and more 3D than picture from FF camera?

IQ is not only noise at high ISO (what type of noise, by the way?)

To get lower noise is not big problem. The problem begins later, when you have a look at picture of Canon 7D, for example.
08-18-2010, 02:10 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
I am not sure if I agree with you, if they would replace the K-7 sensor, it would have a distinct advantage over the K-r (build quality, top LCD, double wheel, pentaprism) and customers will not hesitate to pay the extra amount of money if they value these specifications.
But K5 would not sell.
Neither would a K-x with simple sensor change.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
Anyhow the rumors regarding the specifications of the new Sony DSLR's with the 16MP sensor are pretty impressive (10 FPS, iso 100 - 25.600, same IQ at iso 3200 as the alpha 900 at iso 400) and for me that would mean that a serious gap would emerge between the K-7 and the K-5
Well, this is fantasy all along. Beleive what you want but expect to be largely disappointed. Why not better IQ than 645D when we're at it ?
08-18-2010, 03:21 AM   #19
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Why would the K-5 not sell? It would have the 16MP Sony sensor instead of the 14MP Sony sensor that I propose in the K-7 plus other updates (AF, etc.). Enough to distinguish it from the K-7 in my opinion.

I agree that the rumours are pretty wild and that a lot is more hope and dream than factual, but it is nice to read these rumors and reflect on them is it not? And where there is smoke, there is fire ;-)

08-18-2010, 04:42 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
Anyhow the rumors regarding the specifications of the new Sony DSLR's with the 16MP sensor are pretty impressive (10 FPS, iso 100 - 25.600, same IQ at iso 3200 as the alpha 900 at iso 400) and for me that would mean that a serious gap would emerge between the K-7 and the K-5
I guess 10fps will work just like 7fps on A550, where AF and exposure is locked so it has a limited use, and with AF and exposure between shots the max speed is lower (5 fps). Who knows, maybe even the mirror will be locked up when using 10fps in the new cameras?

Anyone thinking Pentax AF-C focusing is slow would not be very interested in using the "locked" high speed mode on Sony cameras.

I think Sony has a very strange way of designing their DSLR. They put more and more P&S feature in the cameras and in the same time they remove more and more advanced DSLR features (program shift, AEL button, MLU, DOF preview...). This strategy might work well for the NEX cameras but I doubt it is the most successful way for DSLR.
08-18-2010, 07:42 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
I think Sony has a very strange way of designing their DSLR. They put more and more P&S feature in the cameras and in the same time they remove more and more advanced DSLR features (program shift, AEL button, MLU, DOF preview...). This strategy might work well for the NEX cameras but I doubt it is the most successful way for DSLR.
They seem to think their audience is P&S upgraders. Maybe they're right but their DSLR designs are just plain ugly. The A100 A700 A850/900 were OK but the newer one like the A550 are just horrible.
08-18-2010, 10:58 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
They seem to think their audience is P&S upgraders. Maybe they're right but their DSLR designs are just plain ugly. The A100 A700 A850/900 were OK but the newer one like the A550 are just horrible.
Not to mention they feel like they were made by Fischer-Price (toy company).
08-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
They seem to think their audience is P&S upgraders. Maybe they're right but their DSLR designs are just plain ugly. The A100 A700 A850/900 were OK but the newer one like the A550 are just horrible.
Many is P&S upgraders, but there are also many that want to upgrade to a more advanced DSLR. And the only option Sony has for them is A850/A900.

Other than A850/A900 Sony only has entry level cameras. And they have more entry level models that all other DSLR maker combined, and more models seems to be coming in a never stopping flow.

Available Sony entry level models:
A230 (probably soon discontinued)
A290
A330 (probably soon discontinued)
A380 (probably soon discontinued)
A390
A450
A500
A550

And A560, A580, A33 and A55 is coming soon. Maybe Sony will be the first DSLR maker to have more bodies than lenses.
But I wonder if anyone waiting for a A700 replacement will be left when Sony finally release it.

08-18-2010, 12:40 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Many is P&S upgraders, but there are also many that want to upgrade to a more advanced DSLR. And the only option Sony has for them is A850/A900.

Other than A850/A900 Sony only has entry level cameras. And they have more entry level models that all other DSLR maker combined, and more models seems to be coming in a never stopping flow.

Available Sony entry level models:
A230 (probably soon discontinued)
A290
A330 (probably soon discontinued)
A380 (probably soon discontinued)
A390
A450
A500
A550

And A560, A580, A33 and A55 is coming soon. Maybe Sony will be the first DSLR maker to have more bodies than lenses.
But I wonder if anyone waiting for a A700 replacement will be left when Sony finally release it.
Well, it's consumer electronics marketing and not entirely stupid if properly explained. Modern camera have a lot more design options than film ones, so you can create families of body that wouldn't be so difficult to explain to customer. Lets take 2 examples :
- Sensor : let have a 10Mpx low noise, high frame rate sensor, or a much higher resolution 20Mpx (for example)
- Screen : lets have a swivel screen (heavier, more fragile) or a fixed one.

Then, everything else equal (polycarbonate body, pentamirror - for ex) you have 4 possibilities for the same family. And the added development costs are limited. The only problem is with managing stock and production (same problem with the color K-x) It's a bit like selling the Sedan, the Coupe and the Station Wagon of the same platform with different motor options.

You make distinctions between families with the things that are really costly : polycarbonate vs magnesium, pentaxprism vs pentamirror, 100% viewfinder vs 95%, dual card slot vs single card slot etc...

IMO that's what Sony is trying to achieve. Where they fail is to make the picture clearer for the consumer so that they really understand that they are choosing between variation of the same product.
08-18-2010, 02:48 PM   #25
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And they will tend to failure if the product names do not quickly identify a family or some other key characteristic.

I feel sad for the people who are entering this area and trying to understand the range of offers between $500 and, say, $1,000.

I'm sure that it appears to be a nonsensical collections of letters and numbers, particularly in the US market. Nikons can be deciphered with practice. (I'm sitting here looking at my Nikon Coolpix 4500 and learn from the name that it's a 4 MP camera.) But most of this is just alphabet soup and easily mixed up. Does the "D" come before or after the model number? Is a higher number newer, or better, or simply different than a lower number?

It's ugly.

I think we should have cameras with family names, like "Silver". That gives us "Silver Shadow" and "Silver Cloud" and "Silver Dawn". Not that we can afford those .....
08-18-2010, 03:15 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
I think we should have cameras with family names, like "Silver". That gives us "Silver Shadow" and "Silver Cloud" and "Silver Dawn". Not that we can afford those .....
You think emotive phrases are less confusing than sequential numbers...?
08-18-2010, 03:54 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
You think emotive phrases are less confusing than sequential numbers...?
Sorry, I'm afraid I was being a bit facetious. Pentax is no Rolls Royce.

But simple words may serve to distinguish families. Informal names like Rebel could contrast with something more formal. In the olden days, auto companies would use brand nameplates and model names to distinguish families of cars, example: Rolls Royce and Bentley. Silver Shadow versus .... whatever. Chevrolet was no Cadillac.

D300s is obvious but only to someone who's familiar with Nikon, their nomenclature, and the technical aspects that drive the models/families. OK for EOS 1Ds Mark X as the market for that camera knows the naming.

For someone comparing, for the first time, Rebel XS with Rebel XS T2i versus XTi versus Pentax K-7 versus K-X, it has to be hard.

But the brand management folks will do what makes sense to their (usually Japanese) cultural view and does not infringe upon other trademark holders or internal plans. We're probably the last in line with input ....
08-18-2010, 10:20 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
12800 would be great for me. I don't need the fps rate so much, but hope the buffer gets larger. Several times i have exceeded the buffer on my K20 doing single shots of theatre plays.

Anyone know if they will have a remote shutter socket so that one can do timed bulb exposures?
Probably not if it follows the K-x body. You'll just have to stand there holding your IR remote for minutes. Exercise your fingers.
08-18-2010, 10:31 PM   #29
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The D3100 is official now; but, what can it tell us about the K-r?
IMO, nothing. Nothing at all
08-18-2010, 10:37 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The D3100 is official now; but, what can it tell us about the K-r?
IMO, nothing. Nothing at all
+10...

To say honest D3100 is nothing interesting as DSLR

Nikon D3100 Key Features
14.2 megapixel DX-format CMOS sensor
3.0" LCD monitor (230,000 dots)
Image sensor cleaning (sensor shake)
11 AF points (with 3D tracking)
IS0 100-3200 range (12800 expanded)
HD movies (1080, 720p or WVGA)

Last edited by ogl; 08-18-2010 at 10:44 PM.
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