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08-16-2010, 03:28 AM   #1
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What tells the Nikon D3100 us about the Pentax K-r?

Hello,

After reading this forum for a while, I decided to become a member and join some discussions. Currently I am still shooting film with the Asahi Pentax Spotmatic of my grandfather, but the foam around the lid on the back is gone and the rubberized silk of the shutter is damaging the film. So I am currently looking for a replacement and for sentimental reasons I would like to continue using the old glass that I have, hence my interest for a Pentax DSLR!

Off course I am very interested in the news Pentax will present at Photokina and the specifications of the K-r and the K-5. Regarding the K-r, I saw some specs of the new Nikon D3100 (successor of both the D3000 and the D5000) with the 14MP Sony sensor and I think that these specs might be not too far from the specs of the K-r, especially the ISO range:

In the September edition of the German photo magazine “Foto Digital”, which was sent to subscribers today, there is an article about the new Nikon D3100 and the four new lenses.
Nikon D3100 (updated):
  • 14 MP CMOS Sensor (23.2 x 15.5 mm)
  • Live View
  • 3 inch Display
  • 100 – 12800 ISO
  • ISO setting manual or automatic
  • 11 AF points
  • full HD Video (1920 x 1080)
  • price 650 €
  • new EXPEED2 processor
  • improved objects recognition for the AF control
  • improved in-camera menu
  • user can save picture profiles
Sounds pretty good to me and I sincerely hope that the K-r will get this 14MP Sony sensor! Hopefully it will resemble the Pentax K-7 in build quality and WR. If so, this might be the perfect camera for me!

And what are your thoughts on the K-7, will it keep its Samsung sensor? Or will it be updated as well?

08-16-2010, 03:38 AM   #2
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Consensus seems to be 16MP Sony Cmos for K-5 (as Nikon D400?), more fps, 1080p.
08-16-2010, 04:33 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Consensus seems to be 16MP Sony Cmos for K-5 (as Nikon D400?), more fps, 1080p.
But that is the K-5 you are talking about, I think that there is little debate about the sensor of the K-5. Regarding the sensor of the K-r however, there has not been much information here. Will it remain the sensor of the K-x or will it have the new 14MP Sony sensor?

In the latter case it would be a bit silly to remain the K-7 in the line-up given that the K-r sensor must be better than the K-x sensor in both IQ and ISO performance. Add WR and I do not understand what the added value of the K-7 would be... Or do I miss something?
08-16-2010, 04:51 AM   #4
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It will most certainly not have the build of the K-7. It will probably not be sealed.

I don't know, but I would guess the K-r to be the successor of the K-x, and have a design closer to it than the K-7 (which has a build one wouldn't normally expect at that low a price!).

I think it will get the new sensor, though. In spec, it should match what you posted about the D3100 pretty well. We shall soon see

08-16-2010, 05:43 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
But that is the K-5 you are talking about, I think that there is little debate about the sensor of the K-5.
I know that but he asked about K5 as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
Regarding the sensor of the K-r however, there has not been much information here. Will it remain the sensor of the K-x or will it have the new 14MP Sony sensor?
Good question, the K-r is indeed much less talked about.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
In the latter case it would be a bit silly to remain the K-7 in the line-up given that the K-r sensor must be better than the K-x sensor in both IQ and ISO performance. Add WR and I do not understand what the added value of the K-7 would be... Or do I miss something?
If the K-r is between Kx and K7, maybe. If the K-r replaces Kx then not silly at all: K7 is mag-alloy body, WRed, two-wheeled interface, HyperProgram, 1/8000 shutter, pentaprism VF, 100% VF, battery grip etc.

I would NEVER use a body as main camera if it has no HyperProgram/two wheel and pentaprism VF. K7 will fall in price and will be a semi-pro body at very very interesting price.
08-16-2010, 06:09 AM - 1 Like   #6
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I'll bet that the K-7 stays at about the same street price.

If the K-X is about USD $500 w/kit lens, the K-R Kit can be priced about $700-$750 leaving a nice spot at $900-$1,000 for the K-7 WR single-lens kit.

Then the K-5 can arrive with an MSRP of perhaps $1,600 and then move to a stable street price of around $1,200-$1,400.

But all depends on competitors' offers - Pentax cannot price in a vacuum.

The above is a forward-looking statement that is based on nothing but too much time to think about product positioning.
08-16-2010, 07:57 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
[*]Live View
K-x already have this.

QuoteQuote:
[*]100 – 12800 ISO
K-x already have this in extended ISO mode.

QuoteQuote:
[*]ISO setting manual or automatic
K-x already have this.

QuoteQuote:
[*]11 AF points
K-x already have this.

QuoteQuote:
[*]user can save picture profiles
K-x already have this. The image tones/picture profiles in the K-x are all user adjustable so you can save your own settings of those.

K-x even have user adjustable white balance presets and many other things.
I am confident that the new K-r will keep those nice things from the K-x, but have some improvements of course.
08-16-2010, 08:12 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
K-x already have this.



K-x already have this in extended ISO mode.



K-x already have this.



K-x already have this.



K-x already have this. The image tones/picture profiles in the K-x are all user adjustable so you can save your own settings of those.

K-x even have user adjustable white balance presets and many other things.
I am confident that the new K-r will keep those nice things from the K-x, but have some improvements of course.
K-r would be between K-x and K-7 It's not replacment for K-x

08-16-2010, 09:59 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vaikis_ Quote
K-r would be between K-x and K-7 It's not replacment for K-x
The question (for me) is: WRed + two wheeled + grip + (I doubt very much that one) pentaprism ? If yes, K-7 has a lot less appeal. But I don't believe in pentaprism in this range.
08-16-2010, 10:36 AM   #10
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Kx still better

I look at those specs, and with the exception of the new 14mp sensor (which I would guess the Kr will have) 1080 video (again, the Kr will get) and illuminated AF points (again, the Kr) the Kx still beats the new 3100. After all, it has:
• HDR
• Wireless flash capability
• Screw Drive for legacy lens usage

....among other things. The only reason the 3000 and 5000 sell so many is they have shelf space at retailers and massive advertising dollars.

I want the Kr/Kx successor to have those above things, as well as a front control wheel. An info LCD and mic jack should be reserved for more expensive models, pentaprism too.

I really don't care if a camera can go to 12800 ISO because I would never go that high. What I would like to see is FPS go up.
08-16-2010, 11:07 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daedbird Quote
I look at those specs, and with the exception of the new 14mp sensor (which I would guess the Kr will have) 1080 video (again, the Kr will get) and illuminated AF points (again, the Kr) the Kx still beats the new 3100. After all, it has:
• HDR
• Wireless flash capability
• Screw Drive for legacy lens usage

....among other things. The only reason the 3000 and 5000 sell so many is they have shelf space at retailers and massive advertising dollars.

I want the Kr/Kx successor to have those above things, as well as a front control wheel. An info LCD and mic jack should be reserved for more expensive models, pentaprism too.

I really don't care if a camera can go to 12800 ISO because I would never go that high. What I would like to see is FPS go up.
12800 would be great for me. I don't need the fps rate so much, but hope the buffer gets larger. Several times i have exceeded the buffer on my K20 doing single shots of theatre plays.

Anyone know if they will have a remote shutter socket so that one can do timed bulb exposures?
08-17-2010, 01:13 AM   #12
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So if I summarise all posts, the K-r should be different from the K-x in the following aspects:
- New sensor 14 MP Sony
- Illuminated AF points
- Perhaps WR

And it will be different from the K-7 because:
- It does not have a pentaprism, but pentamirror
- No top LCD
- Polycarbonate body instead of magnesium alloy
- Mic jack absent
- Less silent shutter with less cycles, instead of the 100.000 cycles shutter of the K-7

This seems quite logical for me, although I am wondering if anyone would buy a K-7 when there are two lower priced models that do take beautiful photo's as well. I mean the K-x does rival the IQ of the K-7 and I expect that with a new 14 MP Sony sensor the difference in IQ will only be less. We might even end up with a cheaper model that has greater IQ.

How difficult would it be to replace the 14MP Samsung sensor in the K-7 for the new 14 MP sensor from Sony? I have no knowledge about these kind of things, but I am just wondering. Canon has done it with the 5D and 5D mark II, so it should be possible and it would keep the K-7 interesting and at the same time it would not be a thread for the 16MP K-5.
08-17-2010, 08:09 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
So if I summarise all posts, the K-r should be different from the K-x in the following aspects:
- New sensor 14 MP Sony
- Illuminated AF points
- Perhaps WR

And it will be different from the K-7 because:
- It does not have a pentaprism, but pentamirror
- No top LCD
- Polycarbonate body instead of magnesium alloy
- Mic jack absent
- Less silent shutter with less cycles, instead of the 100.000 cycles shutter of the K-7

This seems quite logical for me, although I am wondering if anyone would buy a K-7 when there are two lower priced models that do take beautiful photo's as well. I mean the K-x does rival the IQ of the K-7 and I expect that with a new 14 MP Sony sensor the difference in IQ will only be less. We might even end up with a cheaper model that has greater IQ.

How difficult would it be to replace the 14MP Samsung sensor in the K-7 for the new 14 MP sensor from Sony? I have no knowledge about these kind of things, but I am just wondering. Canon has done it with the 5D and 5D mark II, so it should be possible and it would keep the K-7 interesting and at the same time it would not be a thread for the 16MP K-5.
What people buy is based on what they value most. I think the success of the K-x compared to the much better built K-7 shows how much today's consumer values high ISO noise performance.

On another note, I think this thread is right on in predicting what Pentax will come out on based on other cameras coming out. I think in a similar way, the K-5 (or whatever it is called) will be very similar to whatever Sony tries to do with its A700 replacement.
08-17-2010, 10:13 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
How difficult would it be to replace the 14MP Samsung sensor in the K-7 for the new 14 MP sensor from Sony? I have no knowledge about these kind of things, but I am just wondering. Canon has done it with the 5D and 5D mark II, so it should be possible and it would keep the K-7 interesting and at the same time it would not be a thread for the 16MP K-5.
No way. A simple sensor change won't ever sell a camera. 5Dii added lot more than simple sensor change.
08-17-2010, 02:48 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lampo Quote
Hello,

After reading this forum for a while, I decided to become a member and join some discussions. Currently I am still shooting film with the Asahi Pentax Spotmatic of my grandfather, but the foam around the lid on the back is gone and the rubberized silk of the shutter is damaging the film. So I am currently looking for a replacement and for sentimental reasons I would like to continue using the old glass that I have, hence my interest for a Pentax DSLR!

Off course I am very interested in the news Pentax will present at Photokina and the specifications of the K-r and the K-5. Regarding the K-r, I saw some specs of the new Nikon D3100 (successor of both the D3000 and the D5000) with the 14MP Sony sensor and I think that these specs might be not too far from the specs of the K-r, especially the ISO range:

In the September edition of the German photo magazine “Foto Digital”, which was sent to subscribers today, there is an article about the new Nikon D3100 and the four new lenses.
Nikon D3100 (updated):
  • 14 MP CMOS Sensor (23.2 x 15.5 mm)
  • Live View
  • 3 inch Display
  • 100 – 12800 ISO
  • ISO setting manual or automatic
  • 11 AF points
  • full HD Video (1920 x 1080)
  • price 650 €
  • new EXPEED2 processor
  • improved objects recognition for the AF control
  • improved in-camera menu
  • user can save picture profiles
Sounds pretty good to me and I sincerely hope that the K-r will get this 14MP Sony sensor! Hopefully it will resemble the Pentax K-7 in build quality and WR. If so, this might be the perfect camera for me!

And what are your thoughts on the K-7, will it keep its Samsung sensor? Or will it be updated as well?
Lets hope the ISO has improved, sounds like Kx specs on ISO to me.

Remember Pentax, it's all about the sensor, that is why the Kx has done so well. Improvements in ISO and DR = image quality in a variable of light conditions

Man alive, I've got my fingers crossed about the K-5 sensor, I'm hoping for something great !


wll
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