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08-22-2010, 04:31 PM - 1 Like   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
I seriously hope that Pentax lives up to the hype that's been built up during the last couple of months. With comments like yours, any incremental or evolutionary progress of their cameras will feel like a disappointment.
But that is exactly the cycle of posts on this forum.

010. Someone invents a rumour post about great new feature / massive improvement.

020. Much discussion ensues with many readers falsely assuming there must be at least some truth behind bogus post.

030. Camera is released that has incremental improvements.

040. People complain it is not enough.

050. GOTO 010

08-22-2010, 05:20 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshunter Quote
Not sure why people are getting so hung up on FF. It's a concern when people say that Pentax won't stay in the game unless they enter the fray with a larger sensor soon (BTW: they did beat all Canikons with the 645D if you want something closer to a REAL FF!!) Let's not forget, Olympus has been trading on the 4/3 format for many years now- and do remember this is 10-15% smaller than APS-C. What keeps people coming back to them is innovation. First with a serious interchangeable micro 4/3 compact, top shelf Zuiko glass. Never lose sight of the fact that glass is THE most important piece of the photographic puzzle, and that Pentax glass is one of the best ever made. It rivals both Leica and Zeiss. People who photography will want the nicest glass; irrespective of how glitzy the light-tight box they plug into.

Yeah Canikon might give you a larger sensor, but their glass is second-rate. Even the L-series are an abomination compared to Pentax Ltds.

To be honest, I'd rather a more simple body (light-tight box) that allows me to control the exposure triangle - shutter/aperture/ISO rather than the Gameboys we all tote around today!..FULL STOP. But on that simple body I want the best glass I can afford. So yes an EVIL would mean far more to me that a little bigger 35mm sensor.

So, this concern over more features in a body is just playing into the Canikon hands....I say Pentax should buck the trend and continue investing in its glass and simplify the body!!! Let the Gameboy peddlers, with their infinite menus peddle their games...I'm sure if you work hard enough you'll find the button combination that will open a cheat which will let you take the perfect photograph! Meanwhile give me some Pentax Ltds and a light-tight box!!!

<Slowly climbs off soap-box and wipes spittle of a reddened face >

yes I totally agree that canon glass is overpriced and pretty rubbish, i've spoke about my experiences with the lenses before.

The 5dmk2 sensor is something magical though, as is the d700- full frame just has something alluring about it, it's not noise, it's not resolution, it's just something. I'd have both a FF and APS, they both have their advantages, and considering the price of bodies vs good glass it actually makes more sense to have 2 bodies and use the same lenses, a 28mm lens is very different on FF than APS-C, and when shooting professionally it's a good idea to have 2 bodies with you anyway

The viewfinder is the big thing though, using pentax film cameras or full frame canon's I come back to pentax and the k7 finder is so small and dark. The 7d has as good a finder as the 5d, and it's actually brighter. The d300 finder is good too, not as good as the 7d but still good- k7 finder is too small, and live view quality is terrible, zoomed in to 10x the image quality is awful, but on the 7d it's very sharp and easy to focus.

IS works really well on pentax

I also couldn't get the AF to work how I wanted it to, couldn't get the canon to play ball either, d300 just works as I'd expect it to
08-22-2010, 05:25 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by youky63 Quote
K7 was 130.000 yens new. So Ogl prices sounds correct to me.
And to keep Kx sensor for Kr new body sounds also reasonable, so a bigger difference between both models to justify the high price difference.
I would believe Ogl on this one, even if he didn't yet told us where he get these informations.
On my side, my biggest question is: where is this mirrorless camera Citybank was talking about?!? (even if I really don't care about this model, I believe it is the most important next camera for the survival/growth of Pentax)
PS: VAT in Japan is 5%, so forgot about it.
Agreed. Pentax should price the camera for what it is worth.

Second, my guess is that the EVIL Pentax will not be leaked and that it is being saved for Photokina.
08-22-2010, 06:06 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
For several months the GH1 was in short supply since Panasonic could not make the sensors fast enough.
GH1 was released in March 2009... several month a long over.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Go to DxOmark and compare the GH1 to the K-x and the Canon 5D. The GH1 is an amazing little sensor.
DxOMark tests is old news already, it still can't beat Sony APS-C

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Long story short..... Panasonic could not make enough of the GH1 sensor to keep up with their own demand.
for several month which is long over, GH1 is > 16 month old.

08-22-2010, 06:27 PM   #140
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"I'm more and more beginning to think that the K-5 will be a pellicle camera with an EVF."

why the hell would pentax do that? EVF cameras are pretty bad especially at manually focusing. when rumours fly around pellix cameras people seem to be hypnotised and say that their chosen manufacturer will come out with one. Pellix cameras - I own a canon 1nRS and it's a good camera don't get me wrong. high speed 10FPS, fast shutter response, very minimal (but not non-existent) operational vibrations, and Zero VF blackout. The EOS 1NRS still has to flip down a mirror for the AF and that still limits it's speed, also the RS uses a specialised light blocking shutter which means that when that fails, it is going to be even more expensive to replace it. Also those inclined to use movie mode you are still going to have to rely on the somewhat slower contrast detection AF, and at High FPS you will be limited by the frame buffer. I'm getting sick and tired of magical thinking that somehow pelix cameras are going to revolutionise photography. they won't, because in the end they are just another camera.

/rant

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-22-2010 at 06:39 PM.
08-22-2010, 06:35 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
As long as the 25600 iso performs well i dont think full frame is really that necessary.. If you want shallow DOF then get a fast lens.. IMHO full frame is just a bit overated. The D700 is only more than a stop better than the Kx in ISO.
There are four good reasons to want FF, as I discuss in my article Advantages of a Full-Frame Camera. However, there are also very real advantages to APS-C. Me, I'm pretty happy with the IQ I currently have, but will also welcome any improvements.
08-22-2010, 06:35 PM   #142
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It is very early in the announcement, so for me, it is wait and see. Although at $1650, it is so close to a D700 that I would have to consider the leap, even though I do not require FF, and in some respects don't want it.

Three factors that concern me from reading other sites on the web......

* The K5 is below the K7 and above the Kx...at $1650 it had better not be below the K7 in any respect...not one iota, or it will not make the cut.
*It is reported that a new AF system is at least 6-12 months away....so is Pentax going to sell more "smoke and mirrors" with the K5 AF system? That seems to be getting old now, we have been hearing of improvements for several years.....and they are always in the "new model"....but are they?
* The price...again, this is getting close to FF territory, and the leap to a D700, that already has great high ISO and fantastic AF is just a little more....even less when the new Nikon replacement comes out.

These things concern me.....I don't want any more "smoke and mirrors".....that is why I skipped the K7.....a great camera that fell short of the K20D in IQ and high ISO shooting. If Pentax can't get it right in one package like the competition, they will continue to lose more loyal users like me.
Regards!

Last edited by Rupert; 08-22-2010 at 06:37 PM. Reason: spell
08-22-2010, 06:57 PM   #143
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hey, rupert, what does festus have to say about this?

well, if the AF will fall short, i've already gotten the okay from my XYL to jump ship err.... have 2 systems

there's been no indication from the rumors/speculations that the AF has had a major overhaul. so i'm not holding my breath on this.

this should be interesting.


btw, rupert, where did you read about the AF system being 6-12 months away?

08-22-2010, 06:57 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
There are four good reasons to want FF, as I discuss in my article Advantages of a Full-Frame Camera. However, there are also very real advantages to APS-C. Me, I'm pretty happy with the IQ I currently have, but will also welcome any improvements.
Yes i agree there are some more advantages on Full Frame but some disadvantages as well. Weight and size and price.. Thats why i think FF is overated. That said i also want to try my hands on it but for practicality the APS-C
is enough. There are so many complaints about Pentax not making it but i think
most users just wanted to try it but really dont need it.. just my opinion.
08-22-2010, 06:57 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
GH1 was released in March 2009... several month a long over.



DxOMark tests is old news already, it still can't beat Sony APS-C



for several month which is long over, GH1 is > 16 month old.
Did I say the GH1 could beat the Sony APS-C sensor? Although I am not sure which Sony APS-C sensor you are referring to. They make several.

Yes, the GH1 has an old sensor in it. That might be why Panasonic is going to introduce the GH2 next month.
08-22-2010, 07:01 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshunter Quote
Never lose sight of the fact that glass is THE most important piece of the photographic puzzle ...
Please compare any APS-C camera's base ISO photo to the same camera's ISO 800, 1600, 3200, or 6400 photo at Image Resource side by side. Do you note the lack of detail in the high ISO photos no matter the brand or the camera model? Do you think that the difference in this lack of detail is larger or smaller than any difference between any lens stopped down and wide open?

Now please do the same for the D700 base ISO photo and high ISO photo. Do you note how much more detail there is in the photo as compared to any APS-C' output?

Yes, you can argue that you can stick to the base ISO and use flash or tripod, but you would be the exception, not the rule, in that case. Most photos will not allow the opportunity to use tripod, nor flash.

I think this pretty well demonstrates that the camera is just as important as the lenses. The only reason people believe the lenses are more important is that the duration of the importance of a particular camera is shorter lived. The longer duration of the importance of lenses is due to the economics of manufacturing the lenses, the economics of the person buying the lenses, and the use of multiple lenses on a single body driving their total cost higher than any camera body. It has nothing to do with the effects of capturing a photo, its all about money.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 08-22-2010 at 07:11 PM.
08-22-2010, 07:05 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
All specs could be real and could be not...
They are real about the K-5. I have 3 sources confirming. Much improved sensor for ISO and video. A lot of work has gone into AF.

K-7 body with minor changes.

Initial US$ price point = $1,499. Keep in mind that's MSRP. Street price is usually lower, and drops fast. So, same as K-7 again.

It's the lenses that will have people talking.
08-22-2010, 07:15 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
But that is exactly the cycle of posts on this forum.

010. Someone invents a rumour post about great new feature / massive improvement.

020. Much discussion ensues with many readers falsely assuming there must be at least some truth behind bogus post.

030. Camera is released that has incremental improvements.

040. People complain it is not enough.

050. GOTO 010
+1 ... make that +2 if we increment by integers.

The successor speculation has already started re: K5 replacement. There were a handful of interesting posts; the majority were the usual dross. Mine had to do with dry-hopping and genre literature and so command appropriately little interest.

In other words, we're hyper-threaded on the logic above.

OK - I took photos today and liked a few. I'll call that a good day in Pentax-land, regardless of rumours/suspicions/conjectures/extrapolations/etc.
08-22-2010, 07:29 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
They are real about the K-5. I have 3 sources confirming. Much improved sensor for ISO and video. A lot of work has gone into AF.

K-7 body with minor changes.

Initial US$ price point = $1,499. Keep in mind that's MSRP. Street price is usually lower, and drops fast. So, same as K-7 again.
Awesome! Can't wait! I'm already saving my pennies!

QuoteQuote:
It's the lenses that will have people talking.
Now you're just teasing us
08-22-2010, 07:34 PM - 1 Like   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
Yes i agree there are some more advantages on Full Frame but some disadvantages as well. Weight and size and price.. Thats why i think FF is overated. That said i also want to try my hands on it but for practicality the APS-C
is enough. There are so many complaints about Pentax not making it but i think
most users just wanted to try it but really dont need it.. just my opinion.
I for one, would only be interested in Pentax FF if the body was as small and light as the K-7, or a Leica M9.

I don't know any professionals who carry their FF digitals around everyday everywhere they go. With the K-7 and a Limited lens, that's exactly what i do, no camera bag necessary.

Canon, Sony and Nikon Full-Frame are all for a narrow set of (often pro) purposes. FF is this era's Medium Format, a deliberate tool. 645D and digital MF is even more niche, its this era's Large Format.

With Pentax, Leica, and Olympus it's a daily lifestyle. regardless of sensor size, as the mirrorless explosion has proven.

Just because your first film camera had 35mm film, doesn't mean your digital sensor must be too (would you want your old film ISO vs. digital APS-C ISO as well?). Technology naturally shrinks things all the time, it makes total sense that we can do more now with less physical space in our APS-C sensors than with a 35mm film plane.

until that digital FF camera gets to be the size of our old film FF cameras, count me out. like many other Pentaxians, if i'm going to bring a camera bag why stop at FF when that same bag would fit a 645D? I'm not shooting sports or wars in Iraq, despite what many people say, Pentax most definitely knows their market.
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