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08-22-2010, 11:00 PM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by ewalk Quote
The Canon 7D and Nikon D300s are all around $1500 right now.

If the K-5 starts at $1499 and drops to around $1200 in about 6 months, I still think that's pretty good.
I don't care about N/C. To pay money for 16 MP CMOS APS-C picture - sorry, it's not for me... I'm not sure that the end result will be better than 10 MP CCD.

08-23-2010, 12:31 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
They are real about the K-5. I have 3 sources confirming. Much improved sensor for ISO and video. A lot of work has gone into AF.

K-7 body with minor changes.

Initial US$ price point = $1,499. Keep in mind that's MSRP. Street price is usually lower, and drops fast. So, same as K-7 again.

It's the lenses that will have people talking.
So, do I get you right that the body is boring, but the lenses are interesting?
08-23-2010, 12:39 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Keep hearing about this surprise. What can it be? An 18,2mp cheap 645 camera?
That all, we've had rumors of is fake.

Pentax will announce yielded down 645 sensors in a K7 package at a K7 price
08-23-2010, 02:01 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
That all, we've had rumors of is fake.

Pentax will announce yielded down 645 sensors in a K7 package at a K7 price
Laugh, but I wouldn't be so surprised to see Pentax introduce a specced down 645D. Not now (645D isn't even launched everywhere) but in 3-9 months and 645D+ shortly before/after.

08-23-2010, 02:03 AM   #170
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It was rumoured last year that Pentax would be adding weather resistance and probably in-lens motors to all of it DA line-up.

They started with the two kit lenses then released the 100m Macro WR. I suspect we may see a WR version of the 17-70 and perhaps the 12-24 (unless this gets replaced by a new lens entirely). Maybe others as well.

The only things that I can think would actually get people talking regarding new lenses would be:

a) re-releasing the entire DA, non-ltd, series as WR/SDM

b) Somehow producing WR ltds, or perhaps also integrating in-lens focus motors

c) Re-issuing/engineering FA* optical designs as DFA* lenses and/or releasing DFA lenses with new optical designs

The first two would be of interest to potential buyers and would very much put Pentax on the path to becoming the rugged outdoor camera brand which Hoya intermated ages ago.

The last one would be indicative of a 35mm sized sensor camera being on track for release at some point.

Actually there may also be a

d) Releasing lenses in other mounts.
08-23-2010, 03:04 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
A lot of work has gone into AF.
But has it achieved anything? And how will we know if it has, other than market-speak?
08-23-2010, 04:45 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by andi Quote
All I want is K-7 with a better sensor. K-5 seems to be just that - I'll buy it.
K-7 is the best camera body in my opinion, DA (and FA) Limited primes are the most
unique small prime lenses you can buy today.
Do I need a FF camera - yes. But I don't complain or wait for ever - I've had one
for last 5 years or more - Canon 5D and 5D MkII. They are great.
But I still think K-7 is better as a small setup with those great small lenses.
Pentax is making a huge mistake not advertising the strongest, most interesting
advantage - a professional quality SMALL system with amazing SMALL glass.
Everybody wants mirror-less, blah, blah and then they put some funny looking
big lenses on it. K-7 and a prime Ltd is often smaller than a Panasonic or a Sony
with a stupid big lens on it and the quality Pentax can offer is so much better...
Especially with this new Sony sensor. I like what Pentax offers me.
And I bet many people would if they only knew about it.
When I tell anyone I have a Pentax setup, they are very surprised
and they know completely nothing about it. What a shame.
When I show them my small prime lenses, they can't believe how great they are.
Then I show them how good K-7 is.
If Pentax dies is because of the bad marketing, not lack of FF...
So true.

8 months ago, I was a Nikonian (had been for about 5 years), in search of a more compact system. I never even looked at Pentax, I jumped on the M43rds system. And that was simply because I never knew Pentax had all these amazing compact lenses. Though I was somewhat aware that the K7 was smaller than the D300 and its counterparts.

The ONLY reason I even looked at Pentax, (I think I've told this story a bunch of times on this forum already) was because someone posted a picture of a Panasonic GF1 with a Pentax DA 70mm pancake on the DPReview Micro Four Thirds forums. I'm telling you, my jaw literally dropped. A 70mm lens that's an inch thick?! What?!

Only when I saw that image, did I start to do some research on the Pentax system. About a month later, I got rid of all my Micro Four Thirds gear, and I was a Pentaxian. If I had only known that Pentax was a 'compact' system, I never would have gone to Micro Four Thirds, I would've gone straight to Pentax from Nikon.

I find that most Pentaxians don't 'advertise' the size and weight savings that a Pentax DA/FA prime system brings. (Or at least the Pentaxians in my neck of the woods don't.) Everyone is all excited about M43rds, NEX etc.. and yet we've already got Pentax - it's been around for years, great glass, a larger sensor than M43rds and with weather sealed options as well. Heck, why is there even a market for micro four thirds?
08-23-2010, 05:04 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
if the K-5 is indeed still APS-C, then the only explanation for this statement and the silent recent roadmap is that they are WRing the whole line.
Not WR. DA L. Modest apertures. Very low prices. 1 prime, 1 zoom, maybe another.

Hint to those of you looking for FF. Pentax looks to be releasing what I will term "non-investment glass" all DA L.

from what I hear, the K-5 is a modest K-7 upgrade, the K-r as well. If you're looking for fast glass or WR, not there, not from Pentax. My read is pretty simple: until they see the FF sensors and price points and can see a way into that game, little "investment glass" will be forthcoming. Their line is mostly done for the APS-C crowd. What is coming out is inexpensive "filler" glass for the consumer crowd.

08-23-2010, 05:16 AM   #174
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on APS-C advantages

QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
I for one, would only be interested in Pentax FF if the body was as small and light as the K-7, or a Leica M9.

I don't know any professionals who carry their FF digitals around everyday everywhere they go. With the K-7 and a Limited lens, that's exactly what i do, no camera bag necessary.
Same. For me the primary advantages of Pentax are SR, size, weight and superior image quality (relative to other ASPS-C offerings). Throw in WR and that's an incredible bundle. There would be no market for Pentax to release a FF without maintaining these advantages. That said, I don't see how Pentax have the resources to do something that Canikon cannot.
08-23-2010, 05:18 AM   #175
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on lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's the lenses that will have people talking.
Only if we finally get a tilt/shift, preferably as an adapter that can be fitted with glass as needs be. Photographically, that opens up more possibilities than any other potential lens.

Or ASO versions of the FA Limiteds, with no PF and improved micro-contrast (like the DA35). At a price I could afford. That would be nice too. I couldn't care less about internal motors or any other frills. But I can see the competitive advantage of WR.

QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Releasing lenses in other mounts.
Now that would be interesting, but improbable. The FA43 is the only past example. As soon as the Limiteds are available in Canikon land, there goes one of the main reasons to get a Pentax. I project that Pentax would soon drop body production altogether.
08-23-2010, 05:24 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Only if we finally get a tilt/shift, preferably as an adapter that can be fitted with glass as needs be.
Such a specialized lens is bound to generate... almost no buzz on the forums because it's much too specialized. So I doubt that this will happen.

QuoteQuote:
Or ASO versions of the FA Limiteds, with no PF and improved micro-contrast (like the DA35). At a price I could afford. That would be nice too. I couldn't care less about internal motors or any other frills. But I can see the competitive advantage of WR.
The picture qualities of the current FA Limiteds are only there because they left some abberations in the design. Super-corrected optics generally have a less pleasing and more harsh look. At least, IMHO.
08-23-2010, 05:25 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
As soon as the Limiteds are available in Canikon land, there goes one of the main reasons to get a Pentax. I project that Pentax would soon drop body production altogether.
Pentax, being now a part of Hoya or whatever is the name of this union, produces lenses such as DA 35/2.8 macro ltd or DA* 16-50/2.8 and DA* 50-135/2.8 under name of Tokina AT-X Pro or some such. These are available in other mounts, such as Canon or Nikon. I don't know however how much profit these offerings bring Pentax/Hoya?
08-23-2010, 05:25 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
But has it achieved anything? And how will we know if it has, other than market-speak?
You are correct. On spec my info is that this has substantially improved. Tests will tell. That and early adopter feedback.

Overall the K-5 looks to be a K-7 upgrade, their flagship, top-of-the-line animal designed to go head-to-head with the same from Canikon (like D300s) and Sony (release du jour), and MSRP US$600< their FF offerings, especially at street price. The market is waiting to see where Canikon come with their FF line-up. With the Yen high, I suspect no budge in pricing from Nikon, but the D700 may notch down a bit and stay in production closer to US$1,900 if the come out with a D800 as expected. Just a rumour and hunch. That will put pressure on the flagship APS-C's to drop prices quickly. The K-7 lost as much as 40% off MSRP in 8 months. That's pretty good. Look for that again.

There were 3 main areas the K-7 needed to improve on:

1) High ISO and noise performance. K-x or better, please. Looks like on paper they went there.

2) Video. Also looks like they went there. Important for broader sales.

3) Better AF. Again, on paper, apparently a lot has gone into this, long seen as the Pentax weak spot. Tests will tell.

As for lenses, I have heard of 3 in the pipe, but only 2 to be released soon, a zoom and a prime. Both DA L. I think the DA Ltd line-up is done because APS-C is a question mark, so no major upgrades like WR, SDM, etc.

We could be surprised. My info is from the distribution channel, so something might come from the floor at Photokina. The stuff I do know about is in preview now and is being loaded into shipping containers for Christmas season sales.

One thing I have not heard of from Pentax is AF capability with video. Sounds like both Nikon and Sony are on this. That's going to be an interesting tangent for performance spec.
08-23-2010, 05:27 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Not WR. DA L. Modest apertures. Very low prices. 1 prime, 1 zoom, maybe another.
Wow, that would be somewhat depressing... Altough if the prime is the long awaited "fast normal", it would be nice.
08-23-2010, 05:28 AM   #180
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Modest upgrades? I bet no APS-C camera, ever, could be considered a true upgrade from the K-x, then...
And how did you managed to discover this "non-investment glass" all DA L conspiracy? Because Pentax launched 3 such lenses? (in addition to the DA*s, Limiteds, D FA WRs)
L.E. So, you have some inside info? Or it's a rumor (then, what's the source?)? Or just a guess?
It would be sad to see Pentax cheapen themselves, but then they were asked to do it over and over again.

From what I've heard (let's say, I've read some rumors on the 'net - and I believed them), we'll see some significant upgrades - but, of course, nothing revolutionary. Those times had long ago passed; now it's "evolution, rather than revolution" for all camera makers. Not even the mighty 7D (well, it's the most expensive APS-C in production) is not, IMO, a "revolutionary" upgrade from it's predecessors. Disappointing, eh?
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