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08-26-2010, 12:02 AM   #361
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
some other sites have the release announcments of another brand today with 18mp and apparently a lower price. If the real high ISO numbers of this product work really well there will be value here but otherwise it will be hard to see
this product flying off the shelves at a price higher than than the brard c model 60D announced today. I love pentax---hope they have something up their sleeve.
Here is something interesting. The 60D.
Positioned Below the K-5.
5.3fps.
no weather sealing. plastic body.
ISO 100-6400 + extendable 12800.

So at Photokina.
We have the
Nikon D3100 and D7000 (positioned around the old D90)
Canon with a 60D
Sony A580
Olympus E-5.
Pentax K-5

We have a situation where the K-5 and E-5 will most likely be the only real Pro spec cameras.

08-26-2010, 12:16 AM   #362
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steelski Quote
Please explain your calculation. I can concede if I am wrong. I would like to learn.
I didn't get to this number using proper formula's, but someone in one of the other related threads did (after I had posted my initial finding):
QuoteOriginally posted by JohanBene Quote
if 70% of the light reaches the sensor that equals (ln 0,7)/(ln 2) = -0,515.
A loss of half an EV-step
My maths are a bit rusty so I used Excel which makes for a more complicated way to get to the result, but the outcome was the same.

Wim
08-26-2010, 12:17 AM   #363
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Sorry for the OT, but this has to be corrected:
"wouldn't want to use the FA 50/1.4 wide open unless you want really soft shots."

This is an AF issue, the lens as such is very good and is outresolving the sensor at f1.4.

Proof:
Here you can see clearly the Nyquist artifacts at f1.4:
400% crop
08-26-2010, 01:06 AM   #364
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steelski Quote
Here is something interesting. The 60D.
Positioned Below the K-5.
5.3fps.
no weather sealing. plastic body. .
And despite the cheap build, it weighs the same as the K-7!
If I were to buy a canon now, I would really wonder if it was worth the extra bulk and $$ compared to the 550D
It will be interesting to compare it with the K-r...

08-26-2010, 03:59 AM   #365
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If the new Pentax is all that we are making it out to be, the only reason to buy a Canon in a semi pro body would be for the long glass. Pentax doesn't compete there. If they came out with a nice 100-400, 400 or 500 prime in the F4 to 5.6 range, coupled with the high ISO capabilities of the new camera, you might not see a lot of people moving from other brands to Pentax, but you would see a few Pentax shooters staying with Pentax. Is it worth it for them to keep this small segment? I suppose we'll see in a few weeks.
08-26-2010, 04:26 AM   #366
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
Proof:
Here you can see clearly the Nyquist artifacts at f1.4:
400% crop
nyquist artifacts suggests sharpening on camera rather than outresolving the sensor by the lens.... by the way
08-26-2010, 04:52 AM   #367
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
And despite the cheap build, it weighs the same as the K-7!
If I were to buy a canon now, I would really wonder if it was worth the extra bulk and $$ compared to the 550D
It will be interesting to compare it with the K-r...

Im really disappointed with the 60D, only paper it's somewhat of a step back from the 50D. It seems more like a glorified 550D, IMHO Canon just has too many lower end models, makes it hard to differentiate.
08-26-2010, 05:23 AM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by filorp Quote
nyquist artifacts suggests sharpening on camera rather than outresolving the sensor by the lens.... by the way
Can you elaborate, please?

08-26-2010, 05:43 AM   #369
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
Im really disappointed with the 60D, only paper it's somewhat of a step back from the 50D. It seems more like a glorified 550D, IMHO Canon just has too many lower end models, makes it hard to differentiate.

I can't say I'm all that impressed either. I still had a 20D and was a great camera when it came out.. it has a clunky shutter but the image quality is Very good.With rumours flying around of the New canon 1DsMK IV being 32 megapixels I'm just hoping Canon don't go that far and try and take on the hight resolution of Medium format with such a small sensor. Hence my decision to switch to Nikon for my sporting and action photography. I still have a few canon 1 series bodies and some of the hard to find EF lenses ( EF 200mm f/1.8L - EF 50mm f/1.0L) but I think I'll just stop buying canon cameras and focus on saving up for the 645D.
08-26-2010, 05:53 AM   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
Im really disappointed with the 60D, only paper it's somewhat of a step back from the 50D. It seems more like a glorified 550D, IMHO Canon just has too many lower end models, makes it hard to differentiate.
What would you say about Sony, then?

Also, isn't this the very thing a lot of people wanted from pentax - to fit a model between the K-7 and the K-m/K-x?

60D is a slight dumb-down of the 50D but now Canon also has the 7D. If they put out a 60D in the same level as the previous 50D (which was Canon's top crop body) - they probably cannibalize the sales of the 7D.
08-26-2010, 05:57 AM   #371
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
Im really disappointed with the 60D, only paper it's somewhat of a step back from the 50D. It seems more like a glorified 550D, IMHO Canon just has too many lower end models, makes it hard to differentiate.
The new 60D has nothing to do with the 50D. It only falls into the same naming scheme, but the body is entirely different. The old xxD's were semi-professional bodies; the new 60D is merely for the enthusiast. Actually they went from the 50D to the 7D, hence the confusion.
08-26-2010, 06:30 AM   #372
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
This is an AF issue, the lens as such is very good and is outresolving the sensor at f1.4.

Proof:
Here you can see clearly the Nyquist artifacts at f1.4:
Please look at Pentax SMC FA 50mm F1.4 Lens Review: 4. Test results: Digital Photography Review According to this review the lens is reaching the Nyquist limit at around f/4. At f/1.4 it's well below. That said I agree that the lens is better wide open than I thought once I could reliably focus it (K-7).
08-26-2010, 06:56 AM - 1 Like   #373
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I don't buy this test.
It is suggesting that the FA is resolving almost three times as many lines at f4 than at f1.4.
This is not in agreement with my tests.
I have done many 50mm tests and the resolution is almost the same at f1.4 and at f4.
Only the contrast is lower at f1.4.

Here is another comparison, completely unenhanced: 200%

Last edited by blende8; 08-26-2010 at 07:53 AM.
08-26-2010, 07:15 AM   #374
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mirek Quote
What would you say about Sony, then?

Also, isn't this the very thing a lot of people wanted from pentax - to fit a model between the K-7 and the K-m/K-x?
Was the sony comment on their number of models? Agreed, they are just ridiculous!

The second point, I would say yes and no. The problem is Pentax, with the exception of the K200d, is a 2 body camera maker. I would say the answer to your second point is really that alot of Pentax users are frugal, and don't want to pay near MSRP for the K7, even though it competes with models that sell for 50% more in the first place (d300/s, 7d). On the other end, you have the users that would like to pay $100 more than the K-x, and get weather sealing in an otherwise 'basic' body, which would cannibalize the K7 further. Simply put, the K-x (as with most pentax entry level cameras) offers too many features to put a model between their entry level and enthusiast/pro model.
08-26-2010, 07:39 AM   #375
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
Im really disappointed with the 60D, only paper it's somewhat of a step back from the 50D. It seems more like a glorified 550D, IMHO Canon just has too many lower end models, makes it hard to differentiate.
Based on their new camera strategy, it seems like Canon had no choice but to disappoint people if they still wanted to keep the Canon 60D mid level option going. It's kind of like when Pentax came out with the K-7 instead of the K30D, and people for months kept clamoring for a K30D. Consumers learn to expect certain things based on naming conventions. That's why names are important in the first place.

But really, the Canon 7D was the true successor to the Canon 50D/40D series. Now Canon has confused everyone with coming out with a Canon 60D that isn't really what people wanted. If I were them, I would have called it something else and people wouldn't have had such inaccurate expectations.
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