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08-26-2010, 05:56 PM   #391
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I think zackspeed is the only one allowed to start rumor threads from here on out

08-26-2010, 05:58 PM   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by zackspeed Quote
nope.k-r is not using the k-7 sensor and itīs no k-7 super.
it is more a k-x supersuper
I wish they would call it a k-x supersuper 12MP sony sensor?
08-26-2010, 06:02 PM   #393
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i donīt know.....anybody was hacking my account......
08-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
I wish they would call it a k-x supersuper
Or k-x ++ which makes it look more like an equation and is in line with the Pentax tradition of unpronounceable and non-searchable product names.

08-26-2010, 07:12 PM   #395
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QuoteOriginally posted by ewalk Quote
I think zackspeed is the only one allowed to start rumor threads from here on out
I would agree, noting that if we were to prohibit his use of the symbol, he'd be tongue-tied.
08-26-2010, 08:51 PM   #396
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Why such an interest in Pentax introducing FF? If you're using Pentax cameras, most of your lenses won't work with a FF camera, with few exceptions, right?

Edit: Oh, I guess the Pentax etcetera lenses that work with 35mm cameras will work on a FF.

Last edited by Muse; 08-26-2010 at 08:59 PM.
08-26-2010, 10:40 PM   #397
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In a full frame world everything will be much more expensive.

Most of us are not professional and a balance between quality and price is important. That's why I don't believe in FF for amateurs/experts.
Is is not only like electronics where better technology will be cheaper and cheaper. We are also talking here about optics, lenses etc...

For me, except for "show off" and ego, most of the people here would not benefit a FF. Or you all guys want to make pictures for a living and not a hobby. Not that I want to hurt or anything, but I don't understand the FF mania.

Of course, a FF in the pentax world would be very good for the image of our favorite brand. And a lot of people will feel happy with the idea that one day, perhaps, eventually, they might jump to a professional FF body. Of course this day never comes most of the time for canikon people and it is perhaps better like that.

Last edited by dotchoucou; 08-26-2010 at 10:57 PM.
08-26-2010, 11:47 PM   #398
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QuoteOriginally posted by dotchoucou Quote
In a full frame world everything will be much more expensive.

Most of us are not professional and a balance between quality and price is important. That's why I don't believe in FF for amateurs/experts.
Is is not only like electronics where better technology will be cheaper and cheaper. We are also talking here about optics, lenses etc...

For me, except for "show off" and ego, most of the people here would not benefit a FF. Or you all guys want to make pictures for a living and not a hobby. Not that I want to hurt or anything, but I don't understand the FF mania.

Of course, a FF in the pentax world would be very good for the image of our favorite brand. And a lot of people will feel happy with the idea that one day, perhaps, eventually, they might jump to a professional FF body. Of course this day never comes most of the time for canikon people and it is perhaps better like that.
why would everything be much more expensive in a full frame world? i may be making a stupid simplistic assumption, but it seems to me that the development of the APS-C sensor was poor judgement to begin with. All old lenses for which Pentax maintained backward compatibility were engineered to project light on a 24x36 sensor (35mm film). The APS-C introduced a crop factor for use of these lenses which has remained since (keeping a penalty on the use of old glass). A kind presumtionis that the smaller sensor was designed because it saved a bit on cost and the market-place was competitive. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but if a FF sensor was engineered to collect light just as the old lenses were engineered to project it, wouldn't the old lenses would work at 100% efficiency in the digital world? Of course they would. That is the threat to the manufacturer and the reason FF is kept expensive. To keep the amateurs purchasing new lenses in their quest for better image quality. If a FF camera came out that allowed the old glass to perform at the max, the lens market would be impacted.

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but a camera system (forget the bells and whistles) is nothing more than a lens focusing light on a target collector (sensor, film, whatever) to produce a recordable image.
If the lens focus equals the collector area, you have an efficient lens/camera combination. Old lenses would not fall to the wayside, they would become 100% efficient. New optics would not be required.

Saying that FF should be left to the pros is a silly remark. why not draw the line at point and shoot and let the pros have the rest? The fact is that FF systems with mediocre glass will outperform APS-C systems with the best glass (per what I have read on various posts by FF reviewers and commentators). This has nothing to do with pro or not. And to say that most of the people here would not benefit from Ff is silly too. You should not have to make a living at photography to benefit from better technology. The whole point of amateur photography is to make the best photos possible. If the answer is FF then why not?

I personally believe that the reason for the ASP-C in the first place was to make the old lenses not as desirable as the "new lenses designed specifically for the digital camera". Although an original sensor in the FF 24x36 format would have been the most logical for the user, manufacturer profit motive was the reason we didn't have it. So, unless someone proves me wrong with some real science, I feel that there is no reason a FF couldn't be introduced that had a manufacturing cost within 20% of the current model, (this 20% being the cost differential between the small sensor and the larger). I have no basis for the numbers, but a sensor twice the size should not be a huge percentage of the total manufacturing cost.

You can stick with the APS-C if you wish. For my part, my K7 is the last APS-C I will own. The other manufacturers have offered FF to their base (though I think the prices charged would not be justified if the truth were known). If pentax doesn't follow they will lose followers including me.

08-26-2010, 11:55 PM   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
PENTAX K-5:
- 16 million pixels (SONY new sensor)
- ISO 25600
- 7 frames per sec
- Ĩ 139,000 (too high price - $1625 , but it could be $1400 at US market))
- announcement on September 20
- Released in mid-October

PENTAX K-R:
- 12 million pixels
- 6 frames per sec
- 10 color of body and 12 color grip, as the combination 120 colours
- 74,800 yen ($875 - but it could be $750 at US market))
- announcement from September, 1 till 10.
- Released in mid-October
$1625. for the K-5 is expensive for a APS-C unless FF! $1400 sounds more reasonable $1300 is better for that model at 7FPS
08-26-2010, 11:58 PM   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by bodhi Quote
It should bring a lot of other function for that price too. If I remember well the rumored price for Sony A55 with the same sensor is under 1000$, so the new sensor alone can't cost that much.
at that price. I hope it would lot's of extra features
08-27-2010, 12:10 AM - 1 Like   #401
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Please comment Zack

QuoteOriginally posted by zackspeed Quote
i donīt know.....anybody was hacking my account......
My earlier guess about the K-5 seems to have been very close to what is expected.
So I guess I can make an educated guess about the K-R

14.2 MP sensor,
1080p
Plastic WR body over steel chassis.
One wheel.
Safox 9 (not +)
PentaPRISM. 96% 0.95 mag (same as K20)
3 inch non reinforced 920 pixel display (same as K7)
single SD slot
body similar to K-x in size, styled like K-7 and K-5. (new body)
77 segment exposure metering sensor
6FPS

I could be wrong about the pentaprism, but I feel its a combination between Ist DS and K200D
08-27-2010, 12:17 AM   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by kricha6431 Quote
$1625. for the K-5 is expensive for a APS-C unless FF! $1400 sounds more reasonable $1300 is better for that model at 7FPS
"FF"?
Take a look around. Nikon launched an entry level camera, price: 700$. Sony, their A580 is 900 euro - they're only mid-range APS-C cameras. And last, the Canon 60D - $1099 (body only), $1249 (cheapest kit); it's not even a true replacement from the 50D, with it's lesser build and lower speed. While the 7D is selling (street price) for $1535.
Can you see APS-C cameras getting much cheaper? (as in: making room for a cheap "FF") Because I can't.

I doubt the new high-end camera would cost that much; but even if it does, it can't be "FF". Pentax can't and won't undercut other camera makers by $400-$900.
08-27-2010, 12:58 AM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"FF"?
I doubt the new high-end camera would cost that much; but even if it does, it can't be "FF". Pentax can't and won't undercut other camera makers by $400-$900.
OTOH, Pentax did undercut other camera makers by $10,000 with the 645D (even cameras with the same sensor). So saying that it cannot be done is silly.
08-27-2010, 01:37 AM   #404
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No, saying that, because it worked in completely different market conditions, it should work here is silly. And won't help your "FF" cause, since Pentax will learn they won't be able to sell such a camera, if priced right.
Now the others have the technical advantage, now Pentax is the small fish in the big pond and a brutal reaction to such a move is to be expected - it's the complete opposite of what happened on the DMF market. By starting a price wars - who do you think have larger reserves, needed to survive? Pentax or Canikony? And what would be the point, selling more than Canikon? Pentax???
It's ridiculous. It can't and it won't be done.
08-27-2010, 02:06 AM   #405
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
No, saying that, because it worked in completely different market conditions, it should work here is silly. And won't help your "FF" cause, since Pentax will learn they won't be able to sell such a camera, if priced right.
Now the others have the technical advantage, now Pentax is the small fish in the big pond and a brutal reaction to such a move is to be expected - it's the complete opposite of what happened on the DMF market. By starting a price wars - who do you think have larger reserves, needed to survive? Pentax or Canikony? And what would be the point, selling more than Canikon? Pentax???
It's ridiculous. It can't and it won't be done.
But here you are diminishing Pentax' abilities. They can. And quite possibly they can do it even better. Whether they can do it at a more attractive price point I don't know, but I guess a slightly more expensive camera than the competition is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the camera itself is better.

What attracted me to the brand is that Pentax is doing so many things right. The user interface, the body size, the lenses. The interesting improvements (no way to compare the K20D to the K-7: the K-7 is a MUCH better camera in all aspects except maybe high iso although I know that the noise in high ISO is nicer and easier to clean up than in the K20D).

What do you mean with "the technical advantage"? Being larger as a brand does not mean that you can create more advanced cameras because your R&D department is bigger. In some ways a smaller R&D department is better because there's less people to work with, making taking decisions easier. I easily see that in the K-7. It's such an attractive camera full of improvements, many of which I have yet to see in the bodies of other brands.

The coming month will be full of surprises, believe me... Pentax is acting smart this time.

Last edited by Asahiflex; 08-27-2010 at 02:14 AM.
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