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08-27-2010, 07:52 AM   #421
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I would love to see a full frame pentax some day. I am quite happy with my Pentax K-X but im pretty sure at some point I will want to graduate up to a "more powerful" camera. The current K5/KR rumors do not entice me very much. I would probably end up switching to a nikon or a canon when that time comes. something along the lines of a 5D mark II

08-27-2010, 08:11 AM   #422
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rondec,
sorry, i did not make myself clear perhaps. my teacher was not a photographer and spake nothing about camera bodies. he was a watercolor artist. he has watercolor paintings hanging in the white house and museums, therefore i respect his opinions on art. his comment was about using the best tools available to avoid frustration while learning art. i thought and think that his lesson is appropriate for photography.

people who want full frame may usually be people who have already invested in high end full frame glass, but that is not me. i want full frame because it is what should have been offered at the inception of digital and wasn't. i do want to skimp on glass and use a better camera body. the high end glass you mention is the expensive way to get better results. and i stick to my guns, a sensor engineered to accept the image projected on old 35mm film will be quite good with old lenses. the idea that only new glass is good glass is rediculous. the old russian glass is excellent and i want to use it.

i think however, that pentax may follow canon and only offer full frame after they have abandoned the mounting system that will allow old glass. this assures they will keep selling lenses.

Last edited by glennm; 08-27-2010 at 08:13 AM. Reason: to rondec
08-27-2010, 08:41 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Asahiflex, interesting theory but... since they already have a fully-functional APS-C mirror box, it doesn't make sense to use a FF-sized one - even if they're working on a FF camera.
But if we are to believe the specs in this topic they need to rework the mirror box anyway. From 5.2 FPS to 7 FPS is not as easy as it may look. You can already see the "bulge" next to the bayonet mount of the K-7 (near the grip); it's needed for the faster mirror mechanism. A faster FPS may require a bigger body...

QuoteQuote:
With the *istD I'd say they simply reused what they had at that moment. As soon as a "proper" size mirror box was available, they used that instead.
I doubt we'll see any telltale signs of "FF" in the new cameras
I love to be wrong of course...
08-27-2010, 08:50 AM   #424
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QuoteOriginally posted by glennm Quote
i think however, that pentax may follow canon and only offer full frame after they have abandoned the mounting system that will allow old glass. this assures they will keep selling lenses.
Of course, Pentax can 'pull a Canon' and force their FF customers to buy new glass. But they do quite well realize that it's not very handy today to f*ck your existing customers in the ass and slap them in the face at the same time. What would prevent us from switching brands altogether? Because there's nothing then that will force us to stay with Pentax.

Sorry, this will not happen. Ever.

08-27-2010, 09:08 AM   #425
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is there something i'm not aware of that forces FF digital cameras to be physically enormous? 35mm film cameras were smaller and lighter than the K-7 and had giant prism viewfinders.
08-27-2010, 09:20 AM   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
is there something i'm not aware of that forces FF digital cameras to be physically enormous? 35mm film cameras were smaller and lighter than the K-7 and had giant prism viewfinders.
A DSLR contains MUCH more electronics than a film camera. A LCD display takes up space, so does the battery. On top of that the current cameras have faster shutters and more FPS than the film cameras ever had. That also requires bigger shutter-mirror assemblies. Etc. Etc.
08-27-2010, 09:41 AM   #427
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A DSLR contains MUCH more electronics than a film camera. A LCD display takes up space, so does the battery. On top of that the current cameras have faster shutters and more FPS than the film cameras ever had. That also requires bigger shutter-mirror assemblies. Etc. Etc.
quite true. but, what electronics would have to be added to accomodate a bigger sensor. the difference in physical space required by an ASP-C and FF sensor is truly minimal (neither is much bigger than a postage stamp),. perhaps the mirror and prism, but if so, why?
08-27-2010, 10:19 AM   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by glennm Quote
quite true. but, what electronics would have to be added to accomodate a bigger sensor. the difference in physical space required by an ASP-C and FF sensor is truly minimal (neither is much bigger than a postage stamp),. perhaps the mirror and prism, but if so, why?
You'd need a bigger shutter mechanism for the larger mirror but its true, why a 7D is the same size as a 5D is beyond me. The 7D has the same sensor as a relatively tiny Rebel.

08-27-2010, 10:43 AM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A DSLR contains MUCH more electronics than a film camera. A LCD display takes up space, so does the battery. On top of that the current cameras have faster shutters and more FPS than the film cameras ever had. That also requires bigger shutter-mirror assemblies. Etc. Etc.
Sure, I dont mean old manual film cameras but the modern electronic ones. Looking at the Olympus E-420 it has all of today's electronics but still maintains a super slim profile. True, it's a smaller sensor but add a mirror box to the APS-C Samsung NX or Sony NEX and it would probably be even smaller.
08-27-2010, 12:40 PM   #430
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While I enjoy all the new K-5 talk, it's all just speculation. I remember when the K-7 first came out and I had reservations because I thought the news about how small the camera was didn't sound good. We know now that the K-7 is a spectacular camera. It built on the good things from the K10D and K20D and was simply much more refined.
While I can't afford to upgrade evertime Pentax comes out with a new model, I'm thrilled to read about how all the companies continue to push the envelope. While perhaps we Pentax shooters will never have our equipment enjoy quite the name recognition that Canon and Nikon equipment does, we are very well served by the great equipment Pentax continues to consistently produce.
Without even knowing all the details I'm guessing the new offerings from Pentax will be even more refined and enjoyable to shoot with than the K-7. Pentax listens to those of us who shoot with their equipment which means they will continue to produce cameras and camera equipment which is a pleasure to use.
08-27-2010, 02:07 PM   #431
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
You'd need a bigger shutter mechanism for the larger mirror but its true, why a 7D is the same size as a 5D is beyond me. The 7D has the same sensor as a relatively tiny Rebel.
could it be that the 7D has dual processors?
08-27-2010, 02:56 PM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by glennm Quote
thanks for the response and i don't mean to be argumentative ...
Of course, that's the point of the forum, exchange opinions, even if they are different. As soon as you explain your point of view with arguments, that's fine... and that's what you did ...
Even if you did not convince me
08-28-2010, 01:13 AM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
could it be that the 7D has dual processors?
I think Canon was aiming more at the people who think a bigger camera is better. And I think they tried to pull a stunt with the name too ... make it seem like it's a 5D replacement.

The funny thing is people who don't know much about cameras fall for it. A few days ago I was watching Diggnation (a podcast for those who don't know) and Kevin Rose was all excited about the D3100 -> he previously owned a 5D MKII.

I just hope Pentax does good in this round of upgrades even tho I'm not upgrading this year.
08-28-2010, 01:51 AM   #434
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QuoteOriginally posted by fejker Quote
I think Canon was aiming more at the people who think a bigger camera is better.
I think it's also a matter of balance. The concept of small camera has been pushed too far in the Sony Nex for example. You can see how ridiculous it looks like with any zoom attached to it. In the case of Canon, most of their pro lenses, even the primes, are mammoths. In that regard the 7D is about the right size IMHO.
08-28-2010, 04:01 AM   #435
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The Leica M9 is FF, 18MP digital and yet extremely compact. Compact and FF digital can be done. Add a pentaprism onto a M9 body and it would still be pretty tiny.

A digital Pentax MX, retaining the original dimensions, should certainly be doable in FF or APS-C , I reckon.
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