Brief info about K-5 and KR

illdefined · 08-29-2010, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Christopher M.W.T

Im not under any NDA's I just get fed info from different people, most of it is already on the forum.

I dont know much about the new VF other than the improvements relate to how the focus points are projected, it will apparently be similar to what Nikon and Sony does.

you mean Nikon and Canon (with their 7D)? An LCD over the viewfinder with multiple AF point and grid displays. That's always been partly an EVF, I think very convenient, and a first for Pentax's DSLRs.

If Pentax truly believes it can compete with the D300 and 7D, this feature is a must, with the 7D it's now a semi-pro standard.

**ManuH** · 08-29-2010, 10:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by brecklundin

And that, in a nut shell, was my simple and I know quite trivial point for experts around here. For the way I use a camera having the focus points visible all the time is a huge boon to more consistent shots.

On the Canon they seem to be needed as they are not positioned the same way. On the Pentax as some said they are outlined by the marks in the VF. And putting points would be misleading because the AF sensors are NOT points:

glanglois · 08-29-2010, 10:59 AM

That is extraordinarily helpful ... far more helpful than advice to take test shots with the camera until we get the hang of it.

Thanks!

falconeye · 08-30-2010, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by blende8

I don't buy this test.
It is suggesting that the FA is resolving almost three times as many lines at f4 than at f1.4.
This is not in agreement with my tests.
I have done many 50mm tests and the resolution is almost the same at f1.4 and at f4.
Only the contrast is lower at f1.4.
Here is another comparison, completely unenhanced: 200%

Wieland,
that's an awesome demonstration of the necessary distinction of resolution and contrast.

While in the analog era, full MTF curves were measured on an optical bench (leaving the sensor, AA filter and Bayer demosaicing and (over-)sharpening out of the game), it is now replaced by digital MTF50 figures which are very sensitive to all of the above.

If I'm not mistaken, resolution is typically defined as MTF5 (5% contrast) frequency for MTF curves measured on an optical bench. Because digital MTF curves are so artifact-prone (incl. demosaicing Moiré), one cannot simply use the digital 5% value though.

Anyway, Zeiss lenses resolve about 300 - 400 lp/mm around f/4 and no digital test so far revealed that. I came close to seeing this resolution in reversed lens macrophotography using a Zeiss lens as a front lens and a tele lens as a back lens. I've seen 1.5µm resolution translating into 330 lp/mm.

Originally posted by 0144

77zone metering system gives 77 dots for histogram, if they could increase zones to several hundred and make up some fake points by interpolating zones nearby, they could make a decent histogram.

i don't think we'll see it in this generation though

Originally posted by glanglois

I think we'd need more than a few hundred points to get a histogram that's accurate within a few percentage points at each point on the horizontal axis and do so 97% of the time.
But then I don't remember enough math to model this. Anyone?

Well, you get the exact histogram of the image scaled down to 11x7 pixels (0.2% size). It's not a question of statistical variation but of the presence of high frequency high contrast features within areas of a few hundred pixels. On the other hand, small size specular highlights may be exactly the kind of features you want to ignore when exposing to the right...

I for one would like a 77 field expose to the right metering mode, maybe with 1 stop in reserve as the default.

Originally posted by Christopher M.W.T

I dont know much about the new VF other than the improvements relate to how the focus points are projected, it will apparently be similar to what Nikon and Sony does.

How reliable is this info?

A change of focus point display in the VF would point to a more than cosmetic evolution of the AF system, possibly with more and/or different AF sensors.

Last edited by falconeye; 08-30-2010 at 01:15 AM.

Gimbal · 08-30-2010, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

A change of focus point display in the VF would point to a more than cosmetic evolution of the AF system, possibly with more and/or different AF sensors.

It could also be a new way of displaying the focus points in the viewfinder, and nothing more.

peteng · 08-30-2010, 01:44 AM

Would love to see a funtion allowing the user to use either SDM or in-house focusmotor. Hate it that I want be able to use AF with my DA* 50-135 if I buy a new camera, due to SDM-failure. Must be a really simple fix for Pentax.

dotchoucou · 08-30-2010, 06:35 AM

I agree, should be a must have!!

Kunzite · 08-30-2010, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

How reliable is this info?

A change of focus point display in the VF would point to a more than cosmetic evolution of the AF system, possibly with more and/or different AF sensors.

Very unreliable.

**Pål Jensen** · 08-30-2010, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Agnostic

That's a nice shot but it's not a high contrast image and you could shoot a scene like that without any problems on any decent film stock.

No you can't (and I shoot a lot of high contrast landscapes - look at my album). The image has at least four stops more contrast than any film known to man can record (not to mention film prefered by landscape photographers). Remember the sunlit sky is in the picture, the scene is in shadow and it is dusk light levels. You need a three stop Nd filter to make anything into the shadows with film and that would spoil the image is it would be clearly visible in the trees...

This one is also beyond film. There is details in the shadows (mountains); the picture looks like it did to my eyes at the time. On film the mountains would have been silhouettes...

glanglois · 08-30-2010, 02:10 PM

Why did I wait so long to look at your album?

Wonderful work! And certainly not lacking in contrast ....

**Pål Jensen** · 08-30-2010, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by ChristianS

My biggest Problem with my K20: if i use an iso value above 400 ASA i knew that i will have a big Probelm: NOISE

How much noise is noise? K-7, 1000ISO cropped 50%! No noise reduction; just opened in Photoshop and saved for web....

**rparmar** · 08-30-2010, 03:08 PM

He's back! He's back! And he's staring at me! That little weaselly minky thing! Gah!

<runs away screaming>

**jpzk** · 08-30-2010, 07:50 PM

Not trying to be sneaky, but I've just found this:
Pentax camp
Pentax is very quiet throughout this year after the successful Pentax k-x campaign last year. But rumor circulates in the internet about Pentax is going to release several new DSLR camera models such as Pentax K7S, which is an improvement over Pentax flagship K7 and Pentax K5, which will sit between K7 and Kx.

... on the subject of Photokina 2010 "Radiant Light" website.
What to expect in Photokina 2010?

What is this about a "K7S ??

JP

ewalk · 08-30-2010, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Not trying to be sneaky, but I've just found this:
Pentax camp
Pentax is very quiet throughout this year after the successful Pentax k-x campaign last year. But rumor circulates in the internet about Pentax is going to release several new DSLR camera models such as Pentax K7S, which is an improvement over Pentax flagship K7 and Pentax K5, which will sit between K7 and Kx.

... on the subject of Photokina 2010 "Radiant Light" website.
What to expect in Photokina 2010?

What is this about a "K7S ??

JP

It's probably just some internet static and they got the names wrong. K-5 for the higher end, K-r (??) for the model between the K-x and the K-7. I think it's par for the course to assume that the K-5 is higher than the K-7 - heck, even a bunch of people on these forums thought the same thing!

falconeye · 08-31-2010, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

rumor circulates in the internet about Pentax

That must be us

Can't we insist that every poster on a rumors site first reads thru all 1000+ posts on our rumor threads to validate his postings first? Lousy quality control out there

08-29-2010, 10:11 AM - 1 Like	#482
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by brecklundin And that, in a nut shell, was my simple and I know quite trivial point for experts around here. For the way I use a camera having the focus points visible all the time is a huge boon to more consistent shots. On the Canon they seem to be needed as they are not positioned the same way. On the Pentax as some said they are outlined by the marks in the VF. And putting points would be misleading because the AF sensors are NOT points: Last edited by ManuH; 08-29-2010 at 01:08 PM.

08-30-2010, 01:10 AM	#484
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	MTF50 and MTF5 Originally posted by blende8 I don't buy this test. It is suggesting that the FA is resolving almost three times as many lines at f4 than at f1.4. This is not in agreement with my tests. I have done many 50mm tests and the resolution is almost the same at f1.4 and at f4. Only the contrast is lower at f1.4. Here is another comparison, completely unenhanced: 200% Wieland, that's an awesome demonstration of the necessary distinction of resolution and contrast. While in the analog era, full MTF curves were measured on an optical bench (leaving the sensor, AA filter and Bayer demosaicing and (over-)sharpening out of the game), it is now replaced by digital MTF50 figures which are very sensitive to all of the above. If I'm not mistaken, resolution is typically defined as MTF5 (5% contrast) frequency for MTF curves measured on an optical bench. Because digital MTF curves are so artifact-prone (incl. demosaicing Moiré), one cannot simply use the digital 5% value though. Anyway, Zeiss lenses resolve about 300 - 400 lp/mm around f/4 and no digital test so far revealed that. I came close to seeing this resolution in reversed lens macrophotography using a Zeiss lens as a front lens and a tele lens as a back lens. I've seen 1.5µm resolution translating into 330 lp/mm. Originally posted by 0144 77zone metering system gives 77 dots for histogram, if they could increase zones to several hundred and make up some fake points by interpolating zones nearby, they could make a decent histogram. i don't think we'll see it in this generation though Originally posted by glanglois I think we'd need more than a few hundred points to get a histogram that's accurate within a few percentage points at each point on the horizontal axis and do so 97% of the time. But then I don't remember enough math to model this. Anyone? Well, you get the exact histogram of the image scaled down to 11x7 pixels (0.2% size). It's not a question of statistical variation but of the presence of high frequency high contrast features within areas of a few hundred pixels. On the other hand, small size specular highlights may be exactly the kind of features you want to ignore when exposing to the right... I for one would like a 77 field expose to the right metering mode, maybe with 1 stop in reserve as the default. Originally posted by Christopher M.W.T I dont know much about the new VF other than the improvements relate to how the focus points are projected, it will apparently be similar to what Nikon and Sony does. How reliable is this info? A change of focus point display in the VF would point to a more than cosmetic evolution of the AF system, possibly with more and/or different AF sensors. Last edited by falconeye; 08-30-2010 at 01:15 AM.

08-30-2010, 02:06 PM	#489
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Agnostic That's a nice shot but it's not a high contrast image and you could shoot a scene like that without any problems on any decent film stock. No you can't (and I shoot a lot of high contrast landscapes - look at my album). The image has at least four stops more contrast than any film known to man can record (not to mention film prefered by landscape photographers). Remember the sunlit sky is in the picture, the scene is in shadow and it is dusk light levels. You need a three stop Nd filter to make anything into the shadows with film and that would spoil the image is it would be clearly visible in the trees... This one is also beyond film. There is details in the shadows (mountains); the picture looks like it did to my eyes at the time. On film the mountains would have been silhouettes... Attached Images Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-30-2010 at 05:47 PM.

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08-29-2010, 09:29 AM	#481
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by Christopher M.W.T Im not under any NDA's I just get fed info from different people, most of it is already on the forum. I dont know much about the new VF other than the improvements relate to how the focus points are projected, it will apparently be similar to what Nikon and Sony does. you mean Nikon and Canon (with their 7D)? An LCD over the viewfinder with multiple AF point and grid displays. That's always been partly an EVF, I think very convenient, and a first for Pentax's DSLRs. If Pentax truly believes it can compete with the D300 and 7D, this feature is a must, with the 7D it's now a semi-pro standard.

08-29-2010, 10:59 AM	#483
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	That is extraordinarily helpful ... far more helpful than advice to take test shots with the camera until we get the hang of it. Thanks!

08-30-2010, 01:23 AM	#485
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by falconeye A change of focus point display in the VF would point to a more than cosmetic evolution of the AF system, possibly with more and/or different AF sensors. It could also be a new way of displaying the focus points in the viewfinder, and nothing more.

08-30-2010, 01:44 AM	#486
peteng Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 25	Would love to see a funtion allowing the user to use either SDM or in-house focusmotor. Hate it that I want be able to use AF with my DA* 50-135 if I buy a new camera, due to SDM-failure. Must be a really simple fix for Pentax.

08-30-2010, 06:35 AM	#487
dotchoucou Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Marseille Photos: Gallery Posts: 26	I agree, should be a must have!!

08-30-2010, 06:47 AM	#488
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by falconeye How reliable is this info? A change of focus point display in the VF would point to a more than cosmetic evolution of the AF system, possibly with more and/or different AF sensors. Very unreliable.

08-30-2010, 02:10 PM	#490
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Why did I wait so long to look at your album? Wonderful work! And certainly not lacking in contrast ....

08-30-2010, 02:21 PM	#491
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by ChristianS My biggest Problem with my K20: if i use an iso value above 400 ASA i knew that i will have a big Probelm: NOISE How much noise is noise? K-7, 1000ISO cropped 50%! No noise reduction; just opened in Photoshop and saved for web....

08-30-2010, 03:08 PM	#492
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	He's back! He's back! And he's staring at me! That little weaselly minky thing! Gah! <runs away screaming>

08-30-2010, 07:50 PM	#493
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Not trying to be sneaky, but I've just found this: Pentax camp Pentax is very quiet throughout this year after the successful Pentax k-x campaign last year. But rumor circulates in the internet about Pentax is going to release several new DSLR camera models such as Pentax K7S, which is an improvement over Pentax flagship K7 and Pentax K5, which will sit between K7 and Kx. ... on the subject of Photokina 2010 "Radiant Light" website. What to expect in Photokina 2010? What is this about a "K7S ?? JP

08-30-2010, 08:09 PM	#494
ewalk Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 316	Originally posted by jpzk Not trying to be sneaky, but I've just found this: Pentax camp Pentax is very quiet throughout this year after the successful Pentax k-x campaign last year. But rumor circulates in the internet about Pentax is going to release several new DSLR camera models such as Pentax K7S, which is an improvement over Pentax flagship K7 and Pentax K5, which will sit between K7 and Kx. ... on the subject of Photokina 2010 "Radiant Light" website. What to expect in Photokina 2010? What is this about a "K7S ?? JP It's probably just some internet static and they got the names wrong. K-5 for the higher end, K-r (??) for the model between the K-x and the K-7. I think it's par for the course to assume that the K-5 is higher than the K-7 - heck, even a bunch of people on these forums thought the same thing!

08-31-2010, 03:45 AM	#495
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by jpzk rumor circulates in the internet about Pentax That must be us Can't we insist that every poster on a rumors site first reads thru all 1000+ posts on our rumor threads to validate his postings first? Lousy quality control out there